The American Dream is too focused on individual achievement?

[Zorkorist]

The freedom of barriers, is for the poorest among us.

Thus, the American Dream.

-John

 

[OverVolt]

But the barriers are not few for the poorest among us.

Barriers have always been there. Nobody promised it would be easy. Nor does anybody promise that its a specific path, you have to find your own.

 

[Zorkorist]

This is what you sacrifice, every time you vote for more Government.

You vote to limit the American Dream.

-John

 

[OverVolt]

I'm not arguing with you guys, BTW the "American Dream" as its used in 2015 isn't really something in my lexicon.

The old American Dream ... was the dream of the Puritans, of Benjamin Franklin's "Poor Richard"... of men and women content to accumulate their modest fortunes a little at a time, year by year by year. The new dream was the dream of instant wealth, won in a twinkling by audacity and good luck. [This] golden dream ... became a prominent part of the American psyche only after Sutter's Mill."

I think its interesting that there was an "Old American Dream" in Ben Franklin's day.

I'm more of a fan of the old American Dream. The modernized version where Bush tried to push homeownership was a disaster. Just because one thing is correlated with success doesn't mean shoving it onto people equals success. The same goes doubly for education ATM.

 

[Moonbeam]

bozack: the problem with you guys is that you truly think your bitching is in some way relevant...I presume you're both on the tail and or about out of the workforce, didn't amount to much, and are now reflecting back on the supposed shitty hand you felt you were dealt and the only resolve is for the government to step in and lift everyone up.

I am a nobody. But you have been conditioned not to complain so that you can focus on success. That's fine, but it means that you are in denial of the facts. I have it made in this life. I am all set. What you mistake for bitching and complaining is just honesty. I see the facts because I don't need to keep my nose to the wheel or keep myself in the game. I already won. Now I have time to concern myself for the condition of others.

b: just to be clear, those at the "tippy top" who think I am irrelevant surely could give two shits about what any loser on a message board like this posts....

M: Likewise. I post what I believe and don't care who agrees or doesn't. I am true to what I believe. That's all that matters to me.

b: Having a job to earn money isn't a privilege as clearly indicated by the millions of low income service sector jobs available that seemingly no one wants beyond illegals....anyone can work, the problem is that there are loads of those who either won't accept a downgrade in their situation and thus collect, or just don't see the benefit in contributing at all.

M: That is true for some and not true for others. It doesn't tell the whole story.

b: Demanding that jobs pay considerably more without any true basis for that level of compensation is a bit ridiculous...but hey its America right?

M: I demand it for others. I don't want them coming with a gun to take mine. I am very selfish. I am miserable when others suffer and I get very mean toward those that cause them to suffer. They threaten my existence and you know what that can by a person.

b: To the op the American dream isn't entirely based on individual achievement and performance, but as always working smarter and harder and finding something your passionate about will do a lot to allow you to enjoy it and hopefully prosper, instead you become one of the bitching masses that lives on boards like this.

M: Again, you think that diagnostics is complaining because you have been conditioned to suffer for success. Some suffer so much they get vengeance.

Watch your ass when you go around accusing people who are really hurting of bitching. They might blow it off.

You live in a gated community, right?

 

[Zorkorist]

It's not anybody's American Dream, but the freedom of everyone to pursue the American Dream.

Freedom.

For everyone.

To succeed.

-John

 

[bozack]

I am a nobody. But you have been conditioned not to complain so that you can focus on success. That's fine, but it means that you are in denial of the facts. I have it made in this life. I am all set. What you mistake for bitching and complaining is just honesty. I see the facts because I don't need to keep my nose to the wheel or keep myself in the game. I already won. Now I have time to concern myself for the condition of others.

You've been on these boards long enough to know how to appropriately use the quote function, so this like most of your posts is just lazy and sloppy.

Look at your volume of posts on this board, what they focus on, the sheer amount of time you must spend here and its brutally apparent you're anything but "all set"...

Likewise. I post what I believe and don't care who agrees or doesn't. I am true to what I believe. That's all that matters to me.

clearly this is false given how many times you reply in an attempt to refute those who disagree with your positions, you clearly care who agrees and who does not

That is true for some and not true for others. It doesn't tell the whole story.

or rather what you're meaning to say is that it is true for most as it is what many as of lately have been conditioned to think, that taking a downgrade in position or pay is far worse than collecting....its the problem with society today, not realizing that you can be replaced and or your skills may be of limited value...

I know that most anyone can step in to what I do with a bit of research, technical awareness, and ability, its no special skill set I possess just a willingness to learn, work with people, and a high degree of attention to detail...challenge I see is many new to my field just don't seem to care, passion for what they are supposed to be doing isn't there. Many do the minimum necessary to collect a paycheck and hopefully not get let go.

I demand it for others. I don't want them coming with a gun to take mine. I am very selfish. I am miserable when others suffer and I get very mean toward those that cause them to suffer. They threaten my existence and you know what that can by a person.

I fail to see what handing high pay out to mediocre performers will do to benefit anyone beyond furthering a system where people don't want to try do deliver better performance.

Again, you think that diagnostics is complaining because you have been conditioned to suffer for success. Some suffer so much they get vengeance.

Watch your ass when you go around accusing people who are really hurting of bitching. They might blow it off.

You live in a gated community, right?

And nice, make a shitty argument and then resort to borderline threatening language

Nope, no gated communities where I live, and no desire to live in one.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

The freedom of barriers, is for the poorest among us.

Thus, the American Dream.

-John

The idea that the barriers are naturally occurring or, at least, untargeted is patently false.