The 9th amendment

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lizardboy

Diamond Member
Dec 3, 2000
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From my Con Law notes, only case that deal with the 9th Amend.

Griswold v. Connecticut
Griswold
? Connecticut has outlawed use of contraceptives, even by married couples
? 2 people charged as accessories ? SC says this is unC
? this is the quintessential SDP case.
? Lochner was bad b/c SC were making up things, striking down laws they thought were bad
? Notion of penumbrance ? certain Amend of BOR shine, expand
? Precedent ? Douglas cites Pierce & Meyer?wants them to be 1st Amend cases, not SDP (1st Amend did not apply to cases at the time they were decided)
? Penumbra ? (example) right to association put in C to promote 1st Amend?have to be able to associate to speak?Amend in BOR must have great effect than just what they say to make them happen?limits aren?t clear
? These examples in BOR are just examples of what LIBERTY is?14th Amend guarantees Liberty?BOR is not an exhaustive list, just examples?just have to show that something you want to promote that it?s similar to something on the list
? Two canons of statutory construction
o If you have a general term (liberty) then a list, you read the list as examples of what other things might be on the list
o Opposite ? list is limiting, only those things on the list are in
? Privacy & Neutral Principles ? see handout #12-3 #2 has been decided so narrowly, can be applied neutrally that it will only be applicable in the cases in which you want it to. Other theory is that it has to be neutral in its DERIVATION. Can?t just be will of the justices. In some cases the text answers the question of principle for you, for example free speech cannot be banned b/c it?s explicit in the C. However since the text does not allow for right to privacy or marriage, then raising a neutral principle is more difficult since there is no text to refer to.
? Goldberg ? Is there enough there in 9th Amend.
? 9th Amend problematic ? so openended, hard to say that it?s what the C says and not what the judges feeling. Very difficult for court?s to rely on this.
? Harlan, much more willing to say this is SDP.
? Douglas wants to avoid SDP so comes up with penumbra. Not
? Godlberg - used 9th Amend. Not pulling things out of 9th Amend directly, saying that liberty & DP must mean more than is textually in BOR.
? 9th Amend ? BOR lists things important to people in 1789. This Amend is a way to add/ensure future rights are protected. Says these are not exclusive rights, could mean that other rights are protected by state constitutions (one possibility). (Some state cons. Do have right to privacy). Or maybe it?s to remind Congress that they have a duty to protect people?s rights by statutes. Or Maybe it?s saying that these broader terms like liberty can include things that aren?t textually spelled out in C/BOR.
? Harlan ? willing to say this is SDP. We might as well admit what we?re doing & then try to justify why we?re doing it. Much of his reasoning comes from a prior case he had written an opinion on (case was viewed as not ripe). (Poe v. Ullman ?) Even though it?s a concurrence not adopted by majority of justices. Probably most persuasive & most realistically binding.
? We?re not going to try and come up with a rule to govern SDP (Harlan). So how will they keep the justices from doing whatever they want? He?s relying on notions of judicial restraint, craftsmanship ? justices understand difference between law & politics and will rule that way. Doesn?t want to bind them down with a rule for future cases. Harlan is the most conservative member of the SC, but he?s arguing that there are norms that constrain the judges & their rulings/actions. Says any other alternative is unreasonable. Any rule/formula will be unrealistic, too hard to draw a line. Very idealistic. He also thinks that the rights in BOR are examples, NOT exclusive examples. Idea is that you have these examples of due process/liberty ? have to figure out principle that governed these decisions you?ll have the principle to apply to future cases.
? 2 important things about Griswold
o intrudes on marriage, meant to be liberty that gov does not intrude on?something fundamental about relationship of married people
o the way you would enforce the law would be by kicking in the door and catching people in the act?why is this problematic? (how did common law deal with this? ? it would be trespassing?common law protects you by keeping people out of your house)?also protected by C (multiple Amend.) Enforcement in the home is particularly problematic. Combine this with liberty of marriage and this law is a very troubling law (none of the cases after this have two common interests intersect like this)
? In Con. Contraception is against the law (one of the few states to have this). Purpose of SDP is to get rid of outlier statutes. SDP clause brings the outlier states in line with the majority. This becomes problematic later. Some notion that DP clause get rid of unusual instrusions Harlan is not arguing that is wrong strictly b/c it?s a moral law, rather, he is saying that this right b/c marriage has been traditionally protected in law.
? (so we?ve decided this is a fundamental right ? so now have to decide if state?s interest is important...is the state?s intrusion justifiable
? Douglas ? higher degree of scrutiny. The law is trying to prevent infidelity, SC says there are other ways to stop infidelity without this law. Rational basis test (eye doctors?other ways to promote ocular health without this law but they let it stand b/c not intruding on a fundamental right) is that we don?t ordinarily look for less intrustive ways. Even if you?re pursuing a legitimate end there are less intrusive ways to do this. (this is STRICT SCUTINY even though he doesn?t call it that)
? Douglas says Penumbra, really means that BOR helps us figure out what liberty/DPC mean. Goldberg ? 9th Amend tells us that BOR is not an exclusive list. Harlan ? let?s talk about liberty & DPC. Important thing is which of these rationals became intellectually persuasive in later cases. (Harlan most important to later cases).
? Griswold really starts ball rolling towards Roe v. Wade.
? After 1937 SC says we?re really to uphold really dumb laws b/c we don?t? want to go back to Lochner era

Griswold
1) Penumbra effect ? (Douglas) is so determined not to say SDP that he says C has shiny areas around it (??) (young ? very dumb). People have right to be secure in their homes, leads to right to privacy. If you?re going to add rights to the due process clause then makes sense to look at other provisions of C.
2) 9th Amend ? (Goldberg/Warren/Brennan)?blank check for additional Congressional rights. So hard to figure out what rights should be there/not there. Right there in black & white in BOR.
3) SDP ? (Harlan) (relying on earlier case Coe v. Ulman).
4) Black ? should be no unenumerated rights. He?s a firm textualist. C doesn?t say privacy so too bad.



 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
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Originally posted by: Dead Parrot Sketch
timlocke-

That is a popular opinion with some conservatives, but it isn't right. The Constitution was designed to create a strong central government because the earlier attempts which tried to avoid doing so failed miserably.

It's all a sham anyway, how could Justices like Thomas and Scalia who espouse this philosphy have decided the Gore vs Bush election case the way they did, if they strictly went by the founders intent ? That case was completely made up out of thin air, it's not based on any principal but political expediency.

No matter how the SC had ruled, Bush would still be president. Countless recounts by so many sources have found that were any one or all of the re-counts in the fashion Gore demanded done, Bush would have still come out the winner.

And there is NO way you could read the Constitution and Federalist Papers and NOT come to the conclusion that the intent was for a FAR weaker central government than we have today.
 

lizardboy

Diamond Member
Dec 3, 2000
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C - contitution
unC - unconstitutional
SC - supreme court
BOR - bill of rights
SDP - substantive due process
EPC - equal protection clause
 

lizardboy

Diamond Member
Dec 3, 2000
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? Bush v. Gore (2000)
o Good ex. of Political Question Doctrine. (good candidate to punt)
o SC could have passed on b/c of 12th Amend., which provides dispute resolution for prez elections. Possible to read 12th A. as textual argument for House to settle this problem
o EPC is one claim here ? different counting methods being used.
o Other claim is Article 2, states get to decide how elections are done. The state legislatures have to make the rules for voting, the argument is that the FL courts were making new election procedures in violation of Art. 2
o For the Art 2. claim it works well to say that they violated the 12th A. and should not have been heard by SC
o If Gore had said that minorities had been kept from voting it would be better EPC claim
o This case is not likely to happen again (argument for SC not hearing)
o 1st time bush/gore gets to SC they unanimously tell FL SC to give it another shot to fix Art. 2 problem. FL SC does not do this, so returns to SC. This time they?re very divided. SC likes to be unanimous on extremely controversial issues (9-zip in Brown, not so much in Roe or Casey, but hey, nobody?s perfect)
o Remedy question ? If you think re-count is unC what do you do about it?
 Strictly correct thing is to send it back to FL SC
 Could have just not done a recount
 Other option is do to a re-count that is not unC, that should be state?s choice
 Sometimes SC doesn?t trust lower court to get it right (Sullivan v. NYT) so they?ll just fudge the remedy and do the case themselves
 They didn?t to the normal 3 months of briefing for this case
o In SC?s interest to avoid cases which will shred its credibility. Have to build doctrine towards which cases will
 

Tom

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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"SC could have passed on b/c of 12th Amend., which provides dispute resolution for prez elections. Possible to read 12th A. as textual argument for House to settle this problem"

Exactly ! The Constititution specifically says what should have happened, it isn't ambigous. The supposed "strict constitutionalists" chose to ignore it.


Amused-

And I'm not arguing the results would have been different, it's unknowable. I don't even disagree that the Supreme Court maybe needed to make a decision, I'm just pointing out certain Justice's hypocrisy. :disgust:

And it might be true what you say about the founders envisioning a weaker central government than we have now, but it was supposed to be strong, they had tried a weak central government and it didn't work. So it's a matter of degree of strength perhaps.

But the Civil War certainly showed the necessity for a stronger central government, and ignoring that and the changes that take place in 200 years would certainly not be what the founders would expect us to do.