The 6800 is overpriced junk!

[DAPUNISHER]

Originally posted by: ronnn
Very complicated post to just trash the 9800pro and promote the 6800 vanilla, congrats.

Please buy Nvidia..................................... and not Asus - as they cheat and speed up the wrong company.

Where did I trash the 9800p? I stated simple fact, at least to my mind. the 6800series isn't even fully functional or optimized for yet, period. While I readily concede that the 9800p is a good card@$200 and could indeed see future improvement due to the OGL rewrite ect. by the time that happens it'll be another gen or two older so that is a moot point unless the time frame is far shorter. Futhermore, it certainly doesn't negate the value of the 6800, and having come from a 9800p that I was quite happy with I'm a little offended by the implication that I'm trashing it, or otherwise slandering ATi, whos' products I have always enjoyed using.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Originally posted by: rcomo
What implications does this now have on benchamarking? When a company (lets say anandtech or hardocp) benches a card for us, the importance of driver sets comes into play because certain drivers give certain gains/losses depending on what is benched and used. Now, you have to take the motherboard into effect? Damn, picking the right motherboard/processor/video card combo is going to become very complicated, right?

I'm more focused on the fact that at least according to Gigabyte, Asus was promoting their offering as being the shiat for 3D performance without mentioning that they were overclocking the vid card! That means the performance increase has zero to do with the performance of the boards themselves, and would be false advertising. These are unproven allegations though, so I won't form the lynch mob just yet

Personally, I agree with Thugsrook that this will be a good thing for enthusiasts, but the tactics they are accussed of using are not savory to say the least.

 

[rcomo]

Its not like this is anything new though. With ATI and nVidia, they have been slinging poo at each other to try to convince enthusiasts to purchase their respective products. Now you have mobo makers doing the same, soon to be AMD and Intel accusing each otehr of false performance gains soon too, I am sure.

This is GOOD for us gamers so I have no problem with this; the problem I do have is this will lead to what? Void warranties from cards makers saying "You used an Asus board, that voids our warranty because it overclocks the card?" Or benches, which many (including me) look at to decide what card to get - if at all - might be misleading do to factors like kind of motherboard used (that I might not have).

so its BAD for us gamers in that it could lead us down the wrong path and end up not getting the card we want.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Originally posted by: rcomo
Its not like this is anything new though. With ATI and nVidia, they have been slinging poo at each other to try to convince enthusiasts to purchase their respective products. Now you have mobo makers doing the same, soon to be AMD and Intel accusing each otehr of false performance gains soon too, I am sure.

This is GOOD for us gamers so I have no problem with this; the problem I do have is this will lead to what? Void warranties from cards makers saying "You used an Asus board, that voids our warranty because it overclocks the card?" Or benches, which many (including me) look at to decide what card to get - if at all - might be misleading do to factors like kind of motherboard used (that I might not have).

so its BAD for us gamers in that it could lead us down the wrong path and end up not getting the card we want.

Just the type of implications I felt warrant a discussion. Thanks for pointing some potential concerns out :beer:

 

[OMG1Penguin]

6800 is sweet~

 

[hokahknow]

Hardware overclock is more powerful and more accurate than software OC.
However the software OC is more convenient.

I am avoiding the ASUS GE. An extra $100 for a clocked up 6800NU..not me.

 

[Evdawg]

lmao...

i love the title man, that cracks me up each time i read it. "you have been had!"

hahahaha

 

[Childs]

Asus has a history of being cheaters. I remember when that was their motto on their line a Nvidia cards a few years ago. They implemented driver hacks that almost ruined online gaming. It wouldnt surprise me one bit if they are up to their old tricks.

 

[Robor]

Gigabyte says it's a cheat because they can't do it? Waaaaaaaaah! I'm guessing every MB maker thought the first board that could overclock was cheating as well - until they did it themselves!

:thumbsup: to Asus for innovation

 

[rcomo]

Originally posted by: Robor
Gigabyte says it's a cheat because they can't do it? Waaaaaaaaah! I'm guessing every MB maker thought the first board that could overclock was cheating as well - until they did it themselves!

:thumbsup: to Asus for innovation

I agree, this is great for us gamers. Especially htose of us that spend HOURS tweaking our system to try to get our av fps up 5-10% more.

I'm just worried on the implications of buying a card based on hardware reviews and finding out that I won't be seeing the results I thought i would because I am not using "insert chipset/motherboard/periphial here."

 

[Auric]

Is the ASUS o'erclocking on-demand as the software method allows?

 

[nRollo]

Punisher- weren't things less complicated when you had your 5800U? A man knew where he stood in that golden era.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire
I just came in to see what DAPUNISHER was smoking with a thread title like that.

- M4H

Smoking?! I thought he was OD'ing! LOL

:beer:

I don't know what to make of this thing with ASUS. For people who do not want their ATI cards overclocked, its a big no-no. But for o/c 'ers, its just icing on the cake I suppose.

 

[chsh1ca]

Hey, if it's manufacturer supported and doesn't void your warranty, why not? I can see why gigabyte might be pissed, the situation is similar to ATI's Trylinear crap they pulled by encouraging reviewers to bench with full tri enabled and so forth. That being said, I don't think anything like this comes as a surprise, I mean, NVidia is supposedly already doing something similar with the 6800s on NF3 aren't they?

 

[Zebo]

LOL @ matthis trying to turn this into a nV or ATi rehash "despite being reposted ad nauseum"



DP, Sounds cool. No need to re-overclock when updating drivers nor do you need a 3rd party package to do it. Sour grapes from gigibyte...who by next board iteration will be doing the same.

 

[rbV5]

I appreciate your efforts to bring some real dicussion to the Video forum, it sure could use some. I like the idea of bios control of your video card myself. I'm not sure what Gigabyte means by "clandestinely overclocks the frequency of memory and core engines of ATI based PCI Express graphics", are the cards clocks "cloaked" somehow? Why can't they do the same for NVidia cards btw? I want more options for my hardware configuration, so I welcome this kind of innovation. It may force video card makers to take a look at overclocking implications for enthusiasts, its pretty much crap the way they offer overclocking while at the same time <wink> "of course it voids your warranty" <smile>, like that doesn't invite abuse.

I also agree that the 6800 standard is a decent buy at its pricepoint, and certainly not only if you play Doom3 (I don't even have it yet myself) I'm a bit behind everybody I guess since I'm just now playing Far Cry retail (thanks eVGA!) and enjoying it quite a bit, (and yes my AIW 9700pro also handles it very well). It was a big step-up from the ti4200 it replaced, and performs well in every game I've thown at it yet. I'll have Doom3 this week, so I'll see what the hulabaloo is all about

 

[Bronko]

Which 6800's or NU's come with Far Cry?

 

[thelanx]

I think it is a great feature, as long as ASUS makes it clear to reviewers what is going on and provides options to turn it on or off.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Bronko
Which 6800's or NU's come with Far Cry?

I believe that would be eVGA's 6800's.

 

[ss284]

^^^
+ have it default to off

-Steve

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Originally posted by: chsh1ca
Hey, if it's manufacturer supported and doesn't void your warranty, why not? I can see why gigabyte might be pissed, the situation is similar to ATI's Trylinear crap they pulled by encouraging reviewers to bench with full tri enabled and so forth. That being said, I don't think anything like this comes as a surprise, I mean, NVidia is supposedly already doing something similar with the 6800s on NF3 aren't they?

Well nV does it with Forceware tweaks, and it only helps in some 3D games from what I've read. It does fall in the "is this ethical and exceptable performance tweaking?" The best argument they have for their tweaks is that the ATi card tested performed better than on Via in some of the test, and where it didn't the hit was no more than 2% which is encouraging from the standpoint of "fairness". They claim they just found a way to take advantage of the nV combo while still providing full performance for other companies graphics cards.

The warranty question, has been voiced ny several in this thread, and that is a question that needs answering. Will we just agree to the usual disclaimer. or will they give us carte blanche to overclock to our heart's content so long as it be via the BIOS? I surmise it'll be "at your own risk" as always though.

Originally posted by: Rollo
Punisher- weren't things less complicated when you had your 5800U? A man knew where he stood in that golden era.

I certainly did know where I stood......alone!

Originally posted by: rbV5
I'm not sure what Gigabyte means by "clandestinely overclocks the frequency of memory and core engines of ATI based PCI Express graphics", are the cards clocks "cloaked" somehow? Why can't they do the same for NVidia cards btw? I want more options for my hardware configuration, so I welcome this kind of innovation. It may force video card makers to take a look at overclocking implications for enthusiasts, its pretty much crap the way they offer overclocking while at the same time <wink> "of course it voids your warranty" <smile>, like that doesn't invite abuse.

"Cloaked" Man is that sly, if that is indeed what they did. Why nV isn't mentioned is a good question. Perhaps the ever closer business relationship between ATi and Intel influenced this? or it's just a matter of time before nV cards are included, and the aforementioned biz partnership put ATi first in line?

 

[TStep]

To clarifiy:

Is the bios of the motherboard clock manupulating the bios of the video card at start up prior to starting windows?

or

Is it using an Asus developed overclocking tool similar to ATItool on windows startup, just in a cloaked fashion?

 

[Matthias99]

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
Matthias99,

Thanks for the detailed response You can stop with the grammar nazi crap though, because I'm 38, live in the real world, and the vagaries of the english language do not contribute to my income. Consequently, you will find me unmoved and unreceptive to grammatical corrections

That's fine. I don't often point these things out, but your last sentence there just made me cringe.

I agree with some of your reasoning but not with all of it. Also, since your post has not influenced me to see the 6800 differently, we will just have to agree to disagree

I'm fine with that. I just felt I had to say something after your "rabid idiotic fanbois" comment. Just don't go around deriding anyone who disagrees with you as an idiot, ok?

(Yes, I realize this has been beaten to death -- and value, as you might say, is in the eye of the shopper, so neither of us is necessarily "right".)

:beer:

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Originally posted by: TStep
To clarifiy:

Is the bios of the motherboard clock manupulating the bios of the video card at start up prior to starting windows?

or

Is it using an Asus developed overclocking tool similar to ATItool on windows startup, just in a cloaked fashion?

I'm not certain either, but it seems to indicate it's being accessed directly and that the operating system isn't required to change the speeds.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

I'm fine with that. I just felt I had to say something after your "rabid idiotic fanbois" comment. Just don't go around deriding anyone who disagrees with you as an idiot, ok?

Thanks for the advice, I know it is well intended, but I'll keep my own council on how and when to launch a rant and/or ad hom