The 4 Endings of DM M&M [Formerly: or Gothic 3?]

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: skace

Originally posted by: apoppin
you spent 200 hours in G3, got only one ending and still didn't know Beliar isn't "evil"? 😛

Man you are really bent out of shape on that? As far as I'm concerned Beliar is evil. Where are you getting this "Beliar is chaos" thing from? All destruction and evil based magic comes from Beliar. That is far from simply chaotic. He is supposed to be the opposite of Innos.

you'd rather have bugs, lousy performance and a long crappy adventure/RPG rather than a short polished FPS which you consider 'simple minded'

Actually, I think Mem and I would rather have both. But you seem content on a crusade of throwing the games at each other. RPGs on the computer aren't exactly 'by the boatload' so when a few come out, the more the better. I try to find enjoyment from every game.

RPG-type games on the computer are getting 'by the boatload' in the last year: Oblivion/G3/NWN2/DMM&M ... how many good FPSes came out this year? 😛

and you want BOTH crappy RPGs and polished FPSes?
:Q

that's what i am complaining about ...
😀

and i 'threw them together' cause i bought them at the same time .... they are both action adventure games with more RPG in G3 and more FPS in DM ... a nice 'contrast', iMo.

you need to play the Beliar Ending ... then you will know ... also 😉
[the Orcs and Hashashin serve Beliar; the Druids supported by the Rebels serve Adanos and the King supported by the mages and paladins serve Innos. All will kill for their god and each faction wants to be "pre eminent".

i'd say you didn't really "finish" G3 by playing only one ending.

WHOEVER wins, is simply 'leader' for 1,000 years and there is "Peace." ... the game just keeps track of the 'choices' and spits them back to you in Each of the [almost identical] Endings.
[i.e just 'cause Bleiar "wins" the humans are not exterminated; when Innos wins, the Orcs and Hashasins are not killed .... nothing really changes ... "everything is alright"]

... Without Chaos there is no balance ... 😉
[that's why Xardas wanted ALL gods out of human destiny ...
... fat chance]

 

[Mem]

apoppin:come back when you have played Gothic and G2 ,then we can compare real RPGs 😉,yes I have played virtually every RPG game in town since hmm Ultima 8 on the PC(don't get me started on Commodore 64 RPG games ) 🙂 ).

Dark Messiah is a different game to G3 and Oblivion ,just like NWN games are more like BG etc which I really liked, not forgetting Planescape Torment which was a masterpiece in my books ).


So you liked Dark Messiah a lot more then G3 that is fine and your opinion,but I liked G3 more then Dark Messiah even with all its faults,mainly because I like the freedom,exploring etc and stability was stable on my pc ,yes story was crap at ending but so was Oblivion and Dark Messiah in my books ,I think you might like Arx fatalis too,which was a good game in its time IMHO 🙂.

Lets beg to differ on this one between G3 and Dark Messiah and close it there,time to move on 🙂.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Mem
apoppin:come back when you have played Gothic and G2 ,then we can compare real RPGs 😉,yes I have played virtually every RPG game in town since hmm Ultima 8 on the PC(don't get me started on Commodore 64 RPG games ) 🙂 ).

Dark Messiah is a different game to G3 and Oblivion ,just like NWN games are more like BG etc which I really liked, not forgetting Planescape Torment which was a masterpiece in my books ).


So you liked Dark Messiah a lot more then G3 that is fine and your opinion,but I liked G3 more then Dark Messiah even with all its faults,mainly because I like the freedom,exploring etc and stability was stable on my pc ,yes story was crap at ending but so was Oblivion and Dark Messiah in my books ,I think you might like Arx fatalis too,which was a good game in its time IMHO 🙂.

Lets beg to differ on this one between G3 and Dark Messiah and close it there,time to move on 🙂.

you have to remember 'why' i started this thread. ... i was asking 'which' game i should buy ... then it just kinda grew after i bought both ... on its own ... and morphed into a comparison and somewhat of a debate. 😉

it's not that i like DM "more" ... it's just that is am so disappointed with G3's story *fizzle* ... i was expecting *something* ... but not a 'turd' of an ending. 😛

suffering thru the 'issues' that plague this game made it much worse.

finally, i RECOMMENDED this game with more that one hundred hours into it - as better than Oblivion ... based on 'combat' and 'story' [with a disclaimer that it possibly could flop ... and it DID].:frown:

... this is an attempt at atonement ... and a 'counter' to your rather enthusiasic thread.

... but OK, IF you stop posting that you still like it, i will stop posting that i hated it


😀


and i don't want to "come back" after i played G1/G2 ... based on what - your recommendation?
😛
. . . i just can't bring myself to play G1/G2 ... based on my G3 experience and 'what happens' to their Saga .... starts WAAY hard and combat is acknowledged to be 'clunky' .... i didn't like the original Gothic demo ... a bit.


and yes ... i am a FPSer since the very first FPSes ... i only got into RPGs with KotOR after loving the hybrids ... DE/Thief

 

[imported_Imp]

Funny thing with shadows and performance. Turning them off did help it a small bit, but if I get a torch out, give it a minute to start loading up the shadows... Even detail options are broken. I have updated my Nvidia drivers, and it is slightly less choppy, so you may want to give it a shot if you own one.

Oh, so after weeks of thinking I'll save up points to get Improfe Armour, turns out they NEVER put it in. Makes me feel stupider than when I was pressing jump+left click to try jump attacking the first two weeks.

 

[Apocalypse23]

Originally posted by: skace

Originally posted by: Apocalypse23
How are you guys playing Gothic 3? I have an oc'd 8800GTS(check my sig) and while I can run Oblivion with everything maxed at 1680x1050 (plus filtering), Gothic3 runs HORRIBLE on my system! Even with shadows off and a few settings to medium(I refuse to turn everything LOW because I paid money to play such games at good quality/fps) and the latest patch, it runs horribly. I'm 20 or less FPS in crowded cities, 30fps everywhere else, and brief moments of 40-50 in open areas with no NPCs. Not to mention the stutters, and the memory leak crashes(that were supposed to be fixed?)

Apocalypse, my comparison to Oblivion and G3 showed that I'd get 18 FPS in Oblivion where I'd get 13 FPS in G3 in a similarly busy environment. I had to disable grass on both to raise that FPS but G3 always stayed a percentage behind. I ran both at 1680x1050. I didn't bother with a lot of INI tweaks although there was 1 for some memory number, but I believe they might have fixed that in one of the patches. I have a 7800 GT, full specs in Xfire profile.

Originally posted by: apoppin
200 hours of gameplay of which 20 hours is waiting for the Load screen :|

... and you only played ONE Ending? 😛

At any given time I have 30 unplayed games, so yes.. only one ending. No time for more than that. I'm not sure I believe you though but can't be assed to test this. I think the endings you get are based on your actions. If you liberate every town, I doubt the orcs and humans are going to be at peace with each other. Now, if you played through most of the game and then made a save right before the end and then chose the different endings, yea they are going to be similar. Because your actions throughout the game were the same. If you are telling me you played the game through from start to finish multiple times doing everything different and the endings are the same, then that sucks, but I doubt you did that.

I had a 7800GT and recently bought an 8800GTS, and whats funny is while I noticed a tremendous performance increase in practically every game I played, Gothic3 still made me feel like I had upgrade to an 7900 or something like that. Perhaps not AS bad, but in comparison, I couldn't feel a significant performance boost at all. Thankfully I didn't upgrade my system because of G3 alone(I play a lot of other games as well), because in my opinion, if youre only playing G3, its not worth it spending a large chunk of money to upgrade your comp, because the game doesn't look like it can run good on any system IMO.

Shadows and post processing don't really do anything, which is really weird. Turning shadows off via ingame+ini did little to improve my fps, and having post processing on actually did more than having it off/low. Same with some of the texture settings, though I will admit that I didn't turn everything TOO low because like I said in my earlier post, I paid good money to play such games on high quality.

I haven't played DMOMM much, since I put it on hold for G3, but what is up with the multiplayer"? Does anyone actually enjoy it? I played a few games and quit because I found it really awkward and lame. Oh and STEAM sucks, it keeps trying to download the whole friggin game when I have the DVD...

 

[apoppin]

Still playing DM M&M ... as you progress it gets more challenging ... and the Skill points are few enough to make you really 'think' as to where you will put them ... i kinda waffled and am "pretty good" in mele and "good" as a mage -- but not 'excellent' as i should be if i had really specialized ...
fortunately the games always gives you a couple of neat alternatives to complete an objective ... so late in Ch 8, my DM is managing.

the thing i really like is the 'excitement' in battles .... it does get 'intense' ... and with the QUICKsave/REload feature that only takes a few seconds, you never fear to 'experiment' ... or fear dying.

How how do you guys with the super systems [2GB system Ram/8800Gtx/superfast dual-core conroe] fair with the Gothic 3 "Save/Load" times?
... i am really curious ... their "recommended rig" - 'mine' - takes realistically 2-3 minutes [with many hundreds of saves in the folder] 😛

 

[skace]

Originally posted by: Apocalypse23
Shadows and post processing don't really do anything, which is really weird. Turning shadows off via ingame+ini did little to improve my fps, and having post processing on actually did more than having it off/low. Same with some of the texture settings, though I will admit that I didn't turn everything TOO low because like I said in my earlier post, I paid good money to play such games on high quality.

I haven't played DMOMM much, since I put it on hold for G3, but what is up with the multiplayer"? Does anyone actually enjoy it? I played a few games and quit because I found it really awkward and lame. Oh and STEAM sucks, it keeps trying to download the whole friggin game when I have the DVD...

The biggest boost in graphics with Gothic3 was disabling grass. The grass gets really bad in the desert (oddly enough), I think because there is nothing obstructing your vision and, in a few areas (around towns) they put a ton of that dessert weed grass stuff. There was one place in particular in the desert, it is this alcove with a cave and about 50 of those ant dudes (wow I'm forgetting names). They were all hiding in high grass, and I'd get like 2 FPS as I came upon them, but with the grass disabled my FPS shot right back up to around 20.

As far as Steam trying to redownload... if you have the connection simply uninstall the DVD install and let Steam take over, that is what I did. If you don't have the connection, tell Steam to remove the single player portion of the game from your game list, as that is what it is trying to redownload, all 6 GB of it.

Oh and Apoppin, I think I was looking at 30 second save/load times with the original load being the longest. It's hard to remember exactly how long because I didn't time it, but I recall it being longer than any other game I've dealt with, but not long enough to really piss me off. There were a couple points in the game where I just died a real lot, and that got on my nerves quite a bit.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: skace

Originally posted by: Apocalypse23
Shadows and post processing don't really do anything, which is really weird. Turning shadows off via ingame+ini did little to improve my fps, and having post processing on actually did more than having it off/low. Same with some of the texture settings, though I will admit that I didn't turn everything TOO low because like I said in my earlier post, I paid good money to play such games on high quality.

I haven't played DMOMM much, since I put it on hold for G3, but what is up with the multiplayer"? Does anyone actually enjoy it? I played a few games and quit because I found it really awkward and lame. Oh and STEAM sucks, it keeps trying to download the whole friggin game when I have the DVD...

The biggest boost in graphics with Gothic3 was disabling grass. The grass gets really bad in the desert (oddly enough), I think because there is nothing obstructing your vision and, in a few areas (around towns) they put a ton of that dessert weed grass stuff. There was one place in particular in the desert, it is this alcove with a cave and about 50 of those ant dudes (wow I'm forgetting names). They were all hiding in high grass, and I'd get like 2 FPS as I came upon them, but with the grass disabled my FPS shot right back up to around 20.

As far as Steam trying to redownload... if you have the connection simply uninstall the DVD install and let Steam take over, that is what I did. If you don't have the connection, tell Steam to remove the single player portion of the game from your game list, as that is what it is trying to redownload, all 6 GB of it.

Oh and Apoppin, I think I was looking at 30 second save/load times with the original load being the longest. It's hard to remember exactly how long because I didn't time it, but I recall it being longer than any other game I've dealt with, but not long enough to really piss me off. There were a couple points in the game where I just died a real lot, and that got on my nerves quite a bit.

i didn't have ANY problem with grass ... strangely unlike Oblivion

30 second load times would be more "reasonable" ... i guess 2 GB system RAM makes a HUGE difference over 1GB in G3 ...
... in the beginning - without HUNDREDS of saves, it took about 1-1/2 minutes for a complete cycle. ... 2+ minutes at the End of the game. 🙁

and from reading the forums, i think 1 minute is more like it for a super-system ... try timing a complete "save/load" cycle and report back 😛

i'll just quote raystorm for my feelings ...

[Gothic3] is by far the most disappointing of the year.

otoh, DM M&M continues to please ... i am in Chapter 9 [last, i guess] and working on the 4 Endings ... still challenging ... still intense...
i really don't see how ANYone got thru it in ten hours -- without running thru ands skipping most of the battles [there is no penalty for this ... you get skill points only for completing quests].
:Q

 

[Mem]

i'll just quote raystorm for my feelings ...

Nothing new there with apoppin ,seems like every thread there's a remark about G3 😉,as to Dark Messiah the game is way too short and not that great IMHO,I did not like the combat or the linear gameplay,game is easy as magic user too ,good points are very stable, nice graphics,please feel free to reply without quoting G3 in any of your posts 😉.

Off topic:btw I'm still having a lot of fun as cleric in NWN1 ,he is awesome when you know what spells to use.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Mem

i'll just quote raystorm for my feelings ...

Nothing new there with apoppin ,seems like every thread there's a remark about G3 😉,as to Dark Messiah the game is way too short and not that great IMHO,I did not like the combat or the linear gameplay,game is easy as magic user too ,good points are very stable, nice graphics,please feel free to reply without quoting G3 in any of your posts 😉.

Off topic:btw I'm still having a lot of fun as cleric in NWN1 ,he is awesome when you know what spells to use.

and you seem to jump right in to defend that buggy PoS and attack DM [with another 'plug' for NWN]
... nothing new, Mem ... 😛

what were YOUR load/save times like?
[timed by a clock ... not a 'minimized' guess]
:Q

... and you ignored the REST of my post ... but thanks for the 'bump'

😀

 

[Mem]

and you seem to jump right in to defend that buggy PoS and attack DM
... nothing new, Mem ...

what were YOUR load/save times like?
[timed by a clock ... not a 'minimized' guess]

Attacking DarkMessiah?...I just said what I liked and hated about it apoppin,as to G3 we have said all there is to say about it ,lets be honest,yes its buggy,yes long loading times,yes you hate it and so do some others,yes not the great game it was supposed to be,need I go on with good points,nope because no point ( we covered all the old grounds).

 

[apoppin]

Please ... last question about G3, and i'll 'drop it', Mem

What were your load times like [with 2GB sys RAM]? AND did you play all the G3 endings?

as to DM, it is a decent game ... how long was your game from start to finish? ... i am guessing it will be 20+ hours for me

{finally ... anyone ... i lied ... is there a way to tell from the Game how many hours you played? - either game?] 😀

 

[Mem]

apoppin,about 30 secs with a defrag for G3,I played two endings ,one for king and one for Xardas walking with him to the portal.

Dark Messiah I finished in about 18 -20 hours I would say,less then a week,playing as magic user was quite easy ,maybe they are more powerful then melee counterpart?

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Mem
apoppin,about 30 secs with a defrag for G3,I played two endings ,one for king and one for Xardas walking with him to the portal.

Dark Messiah I finished in about 18 -20 hours I would say,less then a week,playing as magic user was quite easy ,maybe they are more powerful then melee counterpart?

... 30 seconds is MUCH more reasonable than my load time with 1GB RAM ... still bad ... but not like my experience

Conclusion ... IF you want to play G3 "acceptably" definitely get 2 GB RAM!

and your 20 hours is much more in line with mine then some people reporting 9 hours to complete DM M&M
:Q
[i like magic too better than mele]

thanks

 

[Mem]

New G3 patch out,check my post here for details.

 

[apoppin]

mindboggling ...

i broke DM M&M ... right before the ending
:Q

SPOILER


After you kill the Undead Paokai with the Ballista, you must turn a wheel to raise a gate ....

well, guess what? ... the gate doesn't move more than 1/4 the way and the gate just *spins* and my DM can't enter...

even reloaded earlier saves and fought thru the battle again to have the same *GAME STOPPER* 🙁

maybe it's karma ... probably only for me ... .
:shocked:

i will check their forums to see if i can workaround

 

[apoppin]

no need ... went back to a save around where i had to purge Xana or not ...

only lost about an hour of play
maybe that's why i take so long to finish 😛
:Q

😀


BTW, there is a LOT not on the walkthru ... in the Epilogue with the Undead Cyclops .... hit him with the stone ... blastd him with lightning afterlightning spell right in the eye ... sanctuary'ed with the +14 damage against Undead Staff ... wailed away for ... ever ... still no kill ,,, and can't seem to kick him anywhere 😛

anyone with experience with this beastie?

 

[apoppin]

Finished ...

🙂

well two of the main Endings ... i don't want to go way back and leave Xana fused to the DM just to see what i can surely guess what the two alternate endings will be [substitute "Ms Evil" for "goody two shoes" and both endings will 'fly' almost identically].

and that undead Cyclops was FAR HARDER than the actual End Boss[es] ... i actually did something not in the walkthru [after wailing on him for at least 3 or 4 continuous minutes till i ran out of Sanctuary Spell and Patience ... might be 'bugged' ... NO ONE reported this difficulty 😛] ... i LURED him off the Edge into the Pit.

😀

Very UNlinear and effective.
:thumbsup:

the Necropolis was a very satisfying Ending ... very hard to figure exactly where to go and what to do [especially when you are under attack]

i actually finished as a Thief and a Mage [i backstabbed Arantir to start the fun]
:Q

still a few bugs ... but RECOMMENDED

and i'd say about TWENTY hours ... 25 if you get the two alternate endings ....
:thumbsup:

G3 ... well, IF it gets Patched and they can fix the performance and it ends in the Bargain Bin ... then OK 😛

 

[apoppin]

Well now i am confused 😛

can someone PLEASE explain the "Xana Ending"
😕


of course ... SPOILERS AHEAD:


well, i went back and played it from where i could purge Xana ... she is less useful than the weapons you get for dumping her but still very nice to morph into when you face UNarmoured foes. 😉

ANYWAY ... when you get to the Skull [finally] and have your Final Choice ... she encourages you to "think" ... then she gets more persistent ... "your father won't need you after you destroy the Skull" [and IF you go the 'other way', Dad says: "i think you are confused by the tunnels ... i am THIS way"] .... 😛

so IF you destroy the Skull, Xana is your Queen and Dad threatens you with Eternal Torment ... eventually

BUT if you hand it off to Dad, he threatens her with a "i will deal with your plotting" and then mumbles something i can't understand
[i figure "you" are His Hero but Xana is "Your Girl" ... or something like that]
:heart:

huH?

anyway ... just like G3 ... 'everything is OK'

.... till the Xpack
:shocked:

😀

 

[apoppin]

no one knows? 😛

no one did all 4 endings?
:Q

No wonder you guys finish a game so fast.

:roll:

i'd say at least 20 hours to do *everything* 😉
[i ended up with 18 "extra" unused Skill points ... i guess i found 'everything']

still unsure about the ending
😕

 

[apoppin]

SOMEONE here has got to have played all 4 endings ... it's BUGGING me and i REplayed all 4 Endings again ... just to be 'sure' ... 😛

*****SPOILERS AHEAD*****


well, i went back and played it from where i could purge Xana in the Cathedral and 'kept' her fused to the DM ... although she is less useful than the weapons you get for dumping her, it is still very nice to morph into Her when you face UNarmoured foes.
... maybe just 'slightly harder' but i had extra Skill points i didn't use, anyway... the only problem playing with Xana was her voice ... i just HATED her constant nagging. 😛

ANYWAY ... when you get to the Skull [finally] and have your Final Choice ... she encourages you to "think" about freeing "Dad" ... then she gets more persistent ... "your father won't need you after you destroy the Skull" ... Either she is obsessed with Power or is in "love" with you ... either way, it is clear she does NOT want you freeing your Father.

[and IF you DO go the 'other way' toward the Altar to Destroy the Skull, Your Demon Dad says: "i think you are confused by the tunnels ... i am this way" ... kinda "funny" really] .... 😀

so IF you destroy the Skull and keep the Demon in Prison, Xana is your Queen ... but Dad threatens you with Eternal Torment ... eventually when he DOES break out [all someone has to do is steal the skull and crush it and Dad is free ... he is "eternal" and "patient"]

BUT if you hand it off to Dad, he then threatens Xena with a "i will deal with your plotting" and then mumbles something i can't understand
[i figure "you" are His Hero but Xana is "Your Girl" ... or something like that ... but he didn't "bless' you guys]

so you appear 'screwed' no matter what you choose
😕

Finally, i guess the Skull Power separates the DM from Xena so they are no longer "fused" ... and Xena appears as a "girl" ["i brought you the Skull and Your Son, (gulp!)", not in her demon form ... any 'significance' there?

or am i missing something?


[the x-pack?]
:Q

😀

huH?

 

[apoppin]

last time ...

no one fininshed ALL 4 endings?
:Q

you guys [even dare to] call yourself "gamers"? 😛
:roll:



😀

 

[TheRyuu]

Whats the Xana ending?
Were you take the artifact for yourself?
(put it in the whole thing?)

 

[apoppin]

thanks for taking some time to reply

[i REALLY want to know]

from my 12/26 3:51 thread


oops ... ****SPOILERS*****




well, i went back and played it from where i could purge Xana in the Cathedral and 'kept' her fused to the DM ... although she is less useful than the weapons you get for dumping her, it is still very nice to morph into Her when you face UNarmoured foes.
... maybe just 'slightly harder' but i had extra Skill points i didn't use, anyway... the only problem playing with Xana was her voice ... i just HATED her constant nagging.

ANYWAY ... when you get to the Skull [finally] and have your Final Choice ... she encourages you to "think" about freeing "Dad" ... then she gets more persistent ... "your father won't need you after you destroy the Skull" ... Either she is obsessed with Power or is in "love" with you ... either way, it is clear she does NOT want you freeing your Father.

[and IF you DO go the 'other way' toward the Altar to Destroy the Skull, Your Demon Dad says: "i think you are confused by the tunnels ... i am this way" ... kinda "funny" really] ....

so IF you destroy the Skull and keep the Demon in Prison, Xana is your Queen ... but Dad threatens you with Eternal Torment ... eventually when he DOES break out [all someone has to do is steal the skull and crush it and Dad is free ... he is "eternal" and "patient"]

BUT if you hand it off to Dad, he then threatens Xena with a "i will deal with your plotting" and then mumbles something i can't understand
[i figure "you" are His Hero but Xana is "Your Girl" ... or something like that ... but he didn't "bless' you guys]

so you appear 'screwed' no matter what you choose


Finally, i guess the Skull Power separates the DM from Xena so they are no longer "fused" ... and Xena appears as a "girl" ["i brought you the Skull and Your Son, (gulp!)", not in her demon form ... any 'significance' there?

or am i missing something?

 

[Mem]

I only played the good ending,did not race through it,however it's not the sort of game where I want to replay all the possible endings,the game was decent ,but nothing to keep me hooked if you know what I mean.

I'm having a lot of fun with the NWN expansion packs at the moment ,my Cleric is kick ass! 🙂