The 1:1 vs. 4:5 results thread

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: n7
7x486 vs. 8x400?

Of course 7x486 would be faster lol

Clockspeed is by far still king, unless it's 8x400 vs. 8x402, e.g., due to the stupid strap loosening.

BTW, back when i had my E6400, i found that:
8x425 (3400 MHz) 4:5 (DDR2-1063 5-5-5-5) was faster than
7x486 (3402 MHz) 1:1 (DDR2-972 4-4-4-4) in real world appz.

You should try that if your RAM can do DDR2-1063 speeds.

It can but 486 was still faster in all things.

 

[n7]

I find that impossible to believe considering the results we've shown here, not to mention my own personal results i had back when i had my E6400.

You're telling me that when you ran the same benches we've done in this thread, 7x486 1:1 beat 8x425 4:5?

Sorry, but that can't be

Edit: on second thought, it likely would be close, since the 425 is still going to be poor performance from the switch to the 1600 strap, but i still can't see it being slower... (aside from synthetics like SuperPiss, etc.).

 

[Conky]

Originally posted by: Yoxxy
There are certain things in the licensing agreement that make you put things where they are. That is why almost all motherboards look identical. Otherwise someone could come up with a rad looking motherboard and differentiate itself to far form the rest. The companies are just interested in selling chips, rather it be NB/SB/CPU the rest of what it is on the board is irrelevant to them. They make a reference layout, you can add features, but rarely can you change the shape or form of the reference.

It's not the licensing agreement unless building motherboards to ATX specs and what not constitutes a licensing agreement.

FUD is your middle name.

Manufacturers could make a motherboard with PCI-E connectors that pointed straight down at the ground if they wanted to. It's not a licensing agreement. It wouldn't be an ATX spec mobo but they could do it if they wanted to, lol.

It's called "manufacturing to spec". Geez, some people are intent on forcing bad information on this board.

Why don't you tell us what super-secret company you work for already. How can any corporation not be proud of such an "asset" as yourself. :laugh:

 

[The-Noid]

There's no such things as manufacturing specs on motherboard. You have standard ATX, BTX, mATX, mBTX, PICO-ATX ....

Why don't we see many chips crossing over on the gamet. Because specifically in the licensing agreement it says ATX spec only, or in other cases exact locations. Next time I will spell it out more, apparently in your world we need to explain things out a bit more as you were the only one that seemed to have a problem.

Also they can't put the pci-e connectors straight down. There is still limits to what they can do. This has nothing to do with the spec. Allow me to PM you and I will put 3 paragraphs of exactly what you can do with a wellknown chipset.

Again, you are out of your league on yet another thing. It's frustrating because you have this whole e-penis thing still going, and you know sqaut.

But hey if you post more people with think with your high post count you are an authority. Even if your answers are worthless.

 

[The-Noid]

I got DDR2-1000 4-4-4-8-12-1T 3d stable, Pi32 stable, and a solid 7 minutes of orthos large fft's stable . Will show some screenshots later. Takes 2.45v though, so definetly not for the faint of heart or 24/7. I think 2.4v is where 24/7 ends.

 

[n7]

Originally posted by: Yoxxy
I got DDR2-1000 4-4-4-8-12-1T 3d stable, Pi32 stable, and a solid 7 minutes of orthos large fft's stable . Will show some screenshots later. Takes 2.45v though, so definetly not for the faint of heart or 24/7. I think 2.4v is where 24/7 ends.

Yeah 2.45V isn't something i can afford to put thru my RAM.

If they can get the vdimm required to achieve 1T w/ higher frequencies down, & the prices on the 680i motherboard to something reasonable, i'll start finding 680i more interesting.

But since i hear nV is greedily charging $120 per chipset, i'm sure affordable & nV 680i will never be in the same sentence

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: n7
I find that impossible to believe considering the results we've shown here, not to mention my own personal results i had back when i had my E6400.

You're telling me that when you ran the same benches we've done in this thread, 7x486 1:1 beat 8x425 4:5?

Sorry, but that can't be

Edit: on second thought, it likely would be close, since the 425 is still going to be poor performance from the switch to the 1600 strap, but i still can't see it being slower... (aside from synthetics like SuperPiss, etc.).

It can be because it's ONLY an increase of about 100Mhz not 200Mhz. Also we're talking about running 4-4-4-8 vs 5-5-5-8 and the overall increased NB performance from the higher frequency. Remember you're not running on the 1066 strap with super duper tight timings anymore.

Sure it's sorta close, but a win is a win. Memory bandwidth was also up at 486 1:1 vs 425 4:5.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: Yoxxy
There's no such things as manufacturing specs on motherboard. You have standard ATX, BTX, mATX, mBTX, PICO-ATX ....

Why don't we see many chips crossing over on the gamet. Because specifically in the licensing agreement it says ATX spec only, or in other cases exact locations. Next time I will spell it out more, apparently in your world we need to explain things out a bit more as you were the only one that seemed to have a problem.

Also they can't put the pci-e connectors straight down. There is still limits to what they can do. This has nothing to do with the spec. Allow me to PM you and I will put 3 paragraphs of exactly what you can do with a wellknown chipset.

Again, you are out of your league on yet another thing. It's frustrating because you have this whole e-penis thing still going, and you know sqaut.

But hey if you post more people with think with your high post count you are an authority. Even if your answers are worthless.

No but you can put connectors wherever you want, put as many PCI slots as you want spaced as far apart as you want. Put 2 ram slots or 4. Put as many fan headers, molex aux power connectors, etc etc wherever you please. You're limited in space, but not design creativity.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: n7

Originally posted by: Yoxxy
I got DDR2-1000 4-4-4-8-12-1T 3d stable, Pi32 stable, and a solid 7 minutes of orthos large fft's stable . Will show some screenshots later. Takes 2.45v though, so definetly not for the faint of heart or 24/7. I think 2.4v is where 24/7 ends.

Yeah 2.45V isn't something i can afford to put thru my RAM.

If they can get the vdimm required to achieve 1T w/ higher frequencies down, & the prices on the 680i motherboard to something reasonable, i'll start finding 680i more interesting.

But since i hear nV is greedily charging $120 per chipset, i'm sure affordable & nV 680i will never be in the same sentence

I would run 2.45v on my memory if it gave me something that 2.4v doesn't. I can't get any more out of them between the two. Also, above 2.3v it's recommended you have some sort of active cooling there. In my case I use the Corsair Dominator Airflow system.

 

[The-Noid]

I think over 2.4v you are going to have ESM problems. No one has really shown this. I know I put 2.9v through a set of Generic Microns (D9GMH) to see if I could hit 1000 mhz cas 3 this weekend (they didn't even get hot). They used to work at 1000 mhz cas 4-4-4-12-2T @ 2.1v pretty easy. Now at that voltage they are not stable past 975. Obviously this is an extreme example, but it gets out of hand fast on ram.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: Yoxxy
I think over 2.4v you are going to have ESM problems. No one has really shown this. I know I put 2.9v through a set of Generic Microns (D9GMH) to see if I could hit 1000 mhz cas 3 this weekend (they didn't even get hot). They used to work at 1000 mhz cas 4-4-4-12-2T @ 2.1v pretty easy. Now at that voltage they are not stable past 975. Obviously this is an extreme example, but it gets out of hand fast on ram.

There are people who have been running 2.6v through their memory for a long time without problems.

 

[n7]

I'd like to see proof of that.

I find it highly unlikely that you could run 24/7 2.6V w/o wrecking the dimms in a month or less.

Even Tony has stated 2.4V is basically the max one can do before asking for premature death.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: n7
I'd like to see proof of that.

I find it highly unlikely that you could run 24/7 2.6V w/o wrecking the dimms in a month or less.

Even Tony has stated 2.4V is basically the max one can do before asking for premature death.

Not when you're running fans on them to keep the temps down. Plus remember that Corsair warranties their 8888C4D to 2.5v

 

[n7]

I suggest you voltmod your P5B-D & test this out for us then

I don't wanna sound rude, but until i see proof of people running their RAM @ 2.6V for months, i am going to assume it does damage the RAM, since everything i've heard indicates that is unsafe for 24/7 operation.

Also, Corsair is "hand picking" those kits, as you like to mention, which likely means they are getting stuff that can handle higher vdimm than normal.

 

[Conky]

Originally posted by: n7
I suggest you voltmod your P5B-D & test this out for us then

I don't wanna sound rude, but until i see proof of people running their RAM @ 2.6V for months, i am going to assume it does damage the RAM, since everything i've heard indicates that is unsafe for 24/7 operation.

Also, Corsair is "hand picking" those kits, as you like to mention, which likely means they are getting stuff that can handle higher vdimm than normal.

I agree. People who claim to be putting this kind of voltage through their RAM are simply looking at killing their RAM. Recommending this to the average user is seriously bad advice which seems to be in abundance on this board lately. I think I saw one guy claim 2.9v for his RAM... maybe he works for a RAM manufacturer and hopes people will burn up their RAM trying to follow his ridiculous claims.

Remember folks, overclocking is a risk... especially when you start upping the voltages to unsafe levels. Burning stuff up at stock voltage is very hard but if you start listening to questionable sources that claim to put 2.9v through their RAM you better realize that you are most likely gonna let the smoke out if you follow their example. And take it from me... once you let the smoke out of a computer component, it is really really hard to get it back inside. :laugh:

 

[The-Noid]

Its not really the heat that is the problem. Even at 2.9v ram wasn't getting hot. You have problems with Electro Static Migration or Permittivity. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permittivity_of_free_space Running electronic parts especially dram over their rated voltage ends up causing problems. I can't explain the exact reason as I am no physicist, but if you read that article it might help. From what I have seen from people putting extreme voltage through their parts in the end you either need to continually add voltage to keep your stuff stable, lower the oc and lower the voltage, or get a new set.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=124399 <--- This is also the post by an OCZ employee talking about putting lots of volts into ram.

Also Beachboy trying 2.9v for minutes != 24/7. It also != me recommending it to others. If anything my post states the opposite, that it is a bad idea, while others are recommending 2.6v's for 24/7.

There are only 4 boards to my knowledge that even allow for putting more than 2.5v on the memory (Dfi Lanparty AM2, Asus Crosshair, Asus Striker, Asus P5NSLI-E) so I don't blieve there is going to be a epidemic of people trying 2.9v after watching me destory a set of ram. Maybe if you are really adamant about this crusade on helping people (which you arn't you simply want to contradict everything I say) you can venture over to XS, where there are hundreds of people trying 2.7v+ on their memory. I think you should make your message heard over there. If you also read up in the post you will see numerous comments by me talking about not running more then 2.4v 24/7 as well. You only want to take pieces out to contradict. Enough is a enough, honestly.

 

[Yellowbeard]

Originally posted by: n7 Also, Corsair is "hand picking" those kits, as you like to mention, which likely means they are getting stuff that can handle higher vdimm than normal.

Actually, only our Dominator 6400C3 and Dominator 8888 kits are warrantied for 2.4v. There is a tolerance in the spex but, that is to allow for MOBO/voltage irregularities as opposed to specifically stating to add the tolerance voltage. And, the primary reason for the better voltage handling is the Dominator heat spreaders. They work REALLY well.

Burning stuff up at stock voltage is very hard but if you start listening to questionable sources that claim to put 2.9v through their RAM you better realize that you are most likely gonna let the smoke out if you follow their example.

Also trying 2.9v for minutes != 24/7. It also != me recommending it to others. If anything my post states the opposite, that it is a bad idea, while others are recommending 2.6v's for 24/7.

I don't think he was talking about you here Yoxxy. He references "questionable sources" which certainly does not include you. More likely, it's the questionable ego OCers that make false claims or, guys are really are knowledgable and hang on the cutting edge where they simply don't care if they burn up some parts. It's a hobby for them, like digital drag racing. When you are pushing the envelope, stuff gets broke.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: n7
I suggest you voltmod your P5B-D & test this out for us then

I don't wanna sound rude, but until i see proof of people running their RAM @ 2.6V for months, i am going to assume it does damage the RAM, since everything i've heard indicates that is unsafe for 24/7 operation.

Also, Corsair is "hand picking" those kits, as you like to mention, which likely means they are getting stuff that can handle higher vdimm than normal.

I have a neighbor running 1GB of Fatbody D9DQT at 2.6v 24/7 going on 6 months.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: Beachboy

Originally posted by: n7
I suggest you voltmod your P5B-D & test this out for us then

I don't wanna sound rude, but until i see proof of people running their RAM @ 2.6V for months, i am going to assume it does damage the RAM, since everything i've heard indicates that is unsafe for 24/7 operation.

Also, Corsair is "hand picking" those kits, as you like to mention, which likely means they are getting stuff that can handle higher vdimm than normal.

I agree. People who claim to be putting this kind of voltage through their RAM are simply looking at killing their RAM. Recommending this to the average user is seriously bad advice which seems to be in abundance on this board lately. I think I saw one guy claim 2.9v for his RAM... maybe he works for a RAM manufacturer and hopes people will burn up their RAM trying to follow his ridiculous claims.

Remember folks, overclocking is a risk... especially when you start upping the voltages to unsafe levels. Burning stuff up at stock voltage is very hard but if you start listening to questionable sources that claim to put 2.9v through their RAM you better realize that you are most likely gonna let the smoke out if you follow their example. And take it from me... once you let the smoke out of a computer component, it is really really hard to get it back inside. :laugh:

If they're running DDR (NOT DDR2) they were able to handle up to 3v+ easily. It depends what you're talking about. I know people running 2.6-2.7v on DDR2, but they are nor D9GMH, GKX, or anything you can buy today. They are Fatbody D9DQT etc. Fatbody ICs could handle more voltage without issues.

For the record...I did not ever once say to run your D9GMH at 2.5+ ever

 

[The-Noid]

Fatbodies do take more. They were some of the best rams avaiable, they are just much higher ball. I loved the timings you could do though 4-3-2-1.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: Yoxxy
Fatbodies do take more. They were some of the best rams avaiable, they are just much higher ball. I loved the timings you could do though 4-3-2-1.

I'm not sure what timings he's running...I'll have to check or ask next I see him. I bought the memory for his system used and it was advertised as Micron D9 so I figured GMH but turns out was DQT 2x 512MB. he did tell me that 2.6v got him to DDR2-1000 (perhaps lower voltages would work too, but I didn't overclock it for him). I did recommend he put a fan on there, showed him the rubber band method so maybe he used it.

 

[Yellowbeard]

Years ago, I made an amazing discovery. I found that there were actually people posting on the internet that had opinions I did not agree with. Soon after, I made another amazing discovery. Chasing them around yapping at them like a chihuahua was pointless and proved nothing. Incredibly, the discoveries kept coming. I discovered that in many cases, even if I proved intellectually that some of said people were wrong, they refused to admit it. You know the type, earth is flat kinda people. But wait, there's more and I'm not just talking free steak knives! Perhaps the most amazing discoveries of all were that pointlessly debating people on the internet violated one of the many tenets taught by Confuscious; never argue with a fool, listeners cannot tell which is which. And finally, the truth was revealed to me. There were OTHER places on the internet I could go when I met one of those opinionated people I could not stomach. I could simply avoid their threads and find peace at last. That is, unless they continually came behind me yapping at my heels like a chihuahua...:beer:

 

[cmdrdredd]

Originally posted by: Yellowbeard
Years ago, I made an amazing discovery. I found that there were actually people posting on the internet that had opinions I did not agree with. Soon after, I made another amazing discovery. Chasing them around yapping at them like a chihuahua was pointless and proved nothing. Incredibly, the discoveries kept coming. I discovered that in many cases, even if I proved intellectually that some of said people were wrong, they refused to admit it. You know the type, earth is flat kinda people. But wait, there's more and I'm not just talking free steak knives! Perhaps the most amazing discoveries of all were that pointlessly debating people on the internet violated one of the many tenets taught by Confuscious; never argue with a fool, listeners cannot tell which is which. And finally, the truth was revealed to me. There were OTHER places on the internet I could go when I met one of those opinionated people I could not stomach. I could simply avoid their threads and find peace at last. That is, unless they continually came behind me yapping at my heels like a chihuahua...:beer:

Uh huh...and I'm assuming you don't know what Fatbody ICs are? :roll:

what you just said was 100% pointless

 

[Yellowbeard]

No, it was not pointless but, you apparently don't fall into the group of pursuer or pursuee so it was not directed at you.

And, yes I am familiar with that IC. In fact, I sold some recently as I have no use for a set of 512mb DIMMs.

 

[Hyperlite]

Originally posted by: Yellowbeard

Originally posted by: n7 primary reason for the better voltage handling is the Dominator heat spreaders. They work REALLY well.

passive ram heatspreaders work now? :shocked: