That other discussion...

[DanC]

This is just an idea that popped into my head, but I wanted to share it with the team.

Have we ever explored the rationale of cooperative cracking? - that is to say, that we ALL do multiple projects concurrently?

Now - *before* you call me an idiot, my thinking was that if we as a team agreed that yes - we have our individual first priority, but that we would include another project as part of the team spirit - wouldn't that go a long ways toward success?

In other words - I prefer RC5, but - I *could* run OGR or SETI as a secondary - and help those that are focused on one of those projects.

The question that this raises is: Would we in fact all enjoy higher overall numbers in all projects, or would it be a wash? I'm not sure of the math involved to prove the concept, but we talk about being a team, yet we're scattered in our focus. Perhaps this would provide a way for all to feel a part of all projects?

I know I'm reaching a little here - but it seems on the surface like something doable that might just help us all. Any thoughts?

edit: dasm sticky keyboard...

 

[TwoFace]

Heh, I'm not sure about the math either Dan, but I just did what you just proposed two days ago Still haven't fired up an OGR cow, 'cause that means I must reconfigure all my home cows, but it'll come this weekend... Working right now on RC5, SETI and GammaFlux. Due to sig limits I've only got the first two in my sig, but my GF stats are here

I like the idea as you might've noticed, dunno what everyone else will think or the math involved, but I'm doing it anyhow

With love and respect your fellow TA member

Two-FaceMy stats:
RC5
Seti
Gamma Flux

 

[DanC]

I think the initial resistance would be the thoughts of losing a % of individual production - until you consider that you'd get like... 800 contributing back to you.

It wouldn't work unless we agreed on it. But - it's a concept that we could all stand together in, rather than being individual groups.

 

[osmo]

DanC-

I think it is an idea with great merit! Like TwoFace mentioned, as well as he and I discussing this in #teamanandtech on irc.teamandtech.com (shameless irc plug), I have made it my focus since rejoining the team.

As a fellow stats junkie, I'd be very interested in seeing the math/stats behind this idea. While I don't know the actual answer to the numbers question, here are a couple of points:

• The machines could be configured so that they are working on the project they are best suited for. (more so than they are currently at least)
• Even if DanC's speculation of a wash were the case, looking beyond pure stats numbers, what unmeasurable positive impact (as DanC implies, and I strongly agree with) would this have on team morale?

Interesting idea DanC!

Osmo.
My Stats

• DNet OGR
• DNet RC5
• <--- this space reserved for DSI Gamma Flux
• Seti@Home

 

[Engineer]

Not a bad idea....hmmmmm?

I have (a while back) given 1.8GHz of my herd to OGR....maybe a little GF and Seti are in order too! Can't convert too much as much of my herd is remote and no way to change it without a trip to the plants....and that I can't do right now

/me goes to ponder Dan's Idea?!?!

Thanks for team spirit and ideas Dan (and everyone else)

 

[Poof]

I've been doing this for some time - now running 4 projects at once...

It can get wildly confusing and may take some time getting used to (since the stats for your primary project would drop)... But then it sortof encourages you to asslaminate even more!

 

[DanC]

A possible &quot;modus operandi&quot; could be to initiate a new e-mail address such as what was done with &quot;Seti Cavalry&quot; -

This way - you wouldn't lose your individual favorite project, but could still see your conributions to the (pardon the phrase) &quot;collective&quot;....

 

[Poof]

but could still see your conributions to the (pardon the phrase) &quot;collective&quot;....

You know that was NOT a Freudian slip! LOL

 

[osmo]

Taking DanC's idea regarding tracking the efforts of Project Groups contributions to other projects (ie RC5'ers working on Seti) in a slightly different direction.

Rather than working collectively within a single address, the Project Groups could set up Proxies for other projects. This way everyone would have the ability to remain individuals if they choose and the effort of the Project Group toward another project could still be calculated at the proxy level. An added bonus would be an additional stats source, but noone really cares about that right?

Osmo.
My Stats

• DNet OGR
• DNet RC5
• <--- this space reserved for DSI Gamma Flux
• Seti@Home

 

[DanC]

I should be able to provide a pproxy for RC5 that can be reached publically by next week.
I have the box, adequate pipe, and the willingness to contribute.

Who'll take SETI, OGR, etc?

 

[osmo]

Actually, my thought would be to have 3 additional pproxies, one for each outside project group. Each Project Group could submit their work, individual or miniteam, to their respective proxy for the other contest(s). What would be the feasibility of running these proxies on the same system on different ports? Could this be implimented on the main TA proxy? All projects have proxies at this point afaik, could these all be incorporated? Can the roundrobin system be extended to include all of these new subproxies?

Osmo.
My Stats

• DNet OGR
• DNet RC5
• <--- this space reserved for DSI Gamma Flux
• Seti@Home

 

[DanC]

Actually... I was offering a new pproxy.
I think it might task the server a wee bit to run 'em all on one, but I can dedicate a dual proc PII-450 to the task. It's a legitimate web server, so it certainly can take the RC5 traffic.

Granted, having them at the team level would be nice too - the offer is out there.

 

[TwoFace]

Hey I like this idea!!

Don't know anything about running proxies for gamma or seti, but as long as you've got RC5 on it you might as well have OGR no? Just a suggestion

I don't think the gamma proxy takes much, since the gamma units are one way only and they are all very small from what I've seen... Granted I've only done 150 or so up to now, but they didn't take long to flush at all, and the work is all &quot;random&quot; due to the way gamma radiation works or something... haven't read up on it much yet :frown:

The big hog of the proxies is the seti proxy I think, since the seti WUs are quite big, 320kB actually but then they take quite some time to finish too, we should get OK to answer the needs a seti proxy has, since he's running the only seti proxy we have right now I think

Keep the ideas rolling guys!!!

With love and respect your fellow TA member

Two-FaceMy stats:
RC5
Seti
Gamma Flux

 

[Adul]

Well I am running a rc5/ogr pproxy and the naked cracker have gone into OGR has well.

Seti is another possiblity I can dig into. Maybe I will install it has a screen saver for some of my comps.

 

[Ken g6]

Okay, I think I'm beginning to understand this. This is more about team unity than stats, right. Because it seems to me like the stats would be somewhat of a wash. Also, I imagine my personal stats would only appear as part of the collective?

Call me a Ferengi, but I think it's time to bring back an idea I had last year: a block market. I have a Cyrix that's good at RC5, but right now I'm focused on SETI. The Cyrix takes about 6 days, I think, to do a SETI WU, but I can get 90 RC5 blocks/day out of it. Now say I find someone with a PII 400 Xeon, who does 360 RC5 blocks/day, but can do a SETI WU in 12 hours. If he does a SETI WU for me in 12 hours, while I do 4 days of RC5 for him, I get 1 WU instead of being 2/3 done with it, and he gets 360 blocks instead of 180.

This could also use a separate proxy, where you could see that somebody had given you the 1 WU or 360 blocks you had agreed upon.

What do you think?

 

[DanC]

Ken_g6 comes pretty close to what I was thinking. We all have processors better suited to another project than our core. It just seems to me that rather than a narrowly focused effort based on our own likes and dislikes, that optimization of effort is working smarter - not harder.

 

[Poof]

Ken_g6... that's an interesting idea!

Might take some work to sort out what does what the best and who would do what for whom, but it might be worth the try!

 

[osmo]

Ken_g6-

My subproxy idea would keep you from losing your individual identity (and support miniteams if they wanted to exist) in all projects while still giving a Project Group (TA Seti, TA RC5, TA OGR, TA Gamma Flux) the ability to calculate how much effort they are giving to alternate projects.

Osmo.
My Stats

• DNet OGR
• DNet RC5
• <--- this space reserved for DSI Gamma Flux
• Seti@Home

 

[Ken g6]

Poof, right! That's what my opportunity costs were for. Unfortunately, that format for them is confusing, Mika didn't update them last time I sent an update, and I need new benchmarks to update them, since several projects have had upgrades. So once somebody tells me that Mika's speed page is up to date on OGR, I can re-send some opportunity costs to Mika.

 

[Adul]

I like this idea a lot. My k6-400 at home will be running OGR instead of rc5. It is just more efficient at it.

 

[Nohr]

It sounds like a great idea as long as it can be implemented well. I've got a K6-2 350 and a K6-3+ 550 that could do OGR rather than RC5 which I'm interested in.

 

[Poof]

Nohr - get a K6-2/500 and pop in to replace your 350. I did that a year ago on one of my machines and was happy as a clam!!

 

[Michael]

DanC - I'm already doing what you suggest. I have machines doing RC5 (too slow for SETI or behind a firewall that Adul is helping with) and SETI.

Michael

 

[Nohr]

Nah, that computer's motherboard is shot. It will only run the K6-2 350 @ 330 (5x66), and even then it's not perfectly stable. It doesn't seem to like bus speeds higher than 66MHz, though it is rated to do them.
And I already have upgraded, the K6-2 was originally in my system. Then I got the K6-3+ and put the K6-2 in to my wife's computer. All that info is in my system rigs page, see the link in my signature.

 

[LeBlatt]

I think I'm already doing something like this. Whatever the project I'm focused on at the moment, if I have some CPUs that suck at this particular project, I keep them on the project they are best suited for. I'd say :
- classic non-mmx pentiums and cyrixes are for rc5
- K6s are for GF or OGR
- cumines are for SETI (I read that, but I have none)

Look what would happen if the TeAm had all its K6s on RC5 and all cyrixes (not to say we have lots, heh, but I do have one) on OGR ?
What a lame waste of power !

DanC, I read in a thread you had some K6s on RC5. I thought &quot;I would write him It's a shame to do that, and he'd better put it on OGR, but as a borg he will only do RC5 so that's useless.&quot;

Did you come to the same conclusion on your own ?