That magic Rig!

[surg]

Does anyone remember that perfect setup where everything just worked, no bugs, no crashes, no compatibility issues, your machine simply did what it was told and life was good.

I used to have a system like this and never appreciated how good it was until now. While everyone else was pulling their hair out in frustration on the forums with games that won't launch, graphical anomalies, sound issues, mouse acceleration, multi-core incompatibility, i was enjoying the best gaming experience of my life, totally problem free with the only problem solving being which game would i play next.

Ever since we migrated from the older platforms, technical issues and compatibility problems have become a normality. When we skip our way to the game store these days, we play a game of chance, which one will actually work with my system, which one will i actually get to play as it was meant to be played and not spend months on the technical support forums where the developers explain how the problem is not with their engine but your system.


With the way things are going these days, it may soon be common practice to buy 10 motherboards, 10 graphics cards, 10 processors, 40 ram modules with a label on each one specifying which game each component works with.


The sad part is, many of these game breaking compatibility issues never get solved, no conclusion or admitted fault on either parties side which gives a lot of us only the choice to grin and bare it.

I recently decided to make a comeback tour of all my favorite games, which played just great on my older system, but now i feel the sting of being plagued by just about every technical issue imaginable, definitely the least enjoyable gaming experience of my life.

On that note, i am seriously considering building my old system again. Sure i will loose the advantage of newer processor architecture and cpu support, but if i can actually play games properly on it then its totally worth it.

 

[mfenn]

All of my newer systems have been like that (basically once I stopped buying crap memory and PSUs), so I think my experience is the exact opposite of yours.

 

[surg]

All of my newer systems have been like that (basically once I stopped buying crap memory and PSUs), so I think my experience is the exact opposite of yours.

Not everyone is lucky enough to stumble upon a compatible hardware configuration, i did once but those components are 4 years old now, not that memory and especially PSU's have anything to do with game engine related issues i've ever encountered.

Its usually Processor/core utilization, Motherboard technology variances, Codecs and rarely Graphics cards that have an impact on issues specific to game engines.

 

[mfenn]

Care to be more specific? I'm struggling to think of a game that has problems with particular mobos.

 

[surg]

Care to be more specific? I'm struggling to think of a game that has problems with particular mobos.

I'm not sure of the technical reasons behind it, could be a number of things such as bad on-board audio, chipset/driver options, input/output devices, lack of bios options, all i know is when tested, games function very differently.

A good example being a mouse acceleration issue with Bioshock, that has still never been fixed or explained, unless you call .ini hacks a fix, which is more of a band-aid unfortunately. never seemed to bother my old system.

Another classic example is Fallout 3 - micro stuttering, also never been fixed or officially explained, and don't bother mentioning the supposed FPS-clamp-FPS-Lim, yet another flimsy Band-aid. I imagine this one is Processor related myself, though who can be sure when you jump platforms you also jump cpu architecture.

I do know one thing though, there are some anomalies with game engines these days that can only be rectified with a different system configuration, in my experience (Motherboard +Processor) those i consider to have the highest probability on influencing such issues.

But if you say you don't experience any issues with any games (providing you can actually discern a broken mechanic when you see it) please let me know your exact hardware config so i can go back to how things used to be.

 

[mfenn]

But if you say you don't experience any issues with any games (providing you can actually discern a broken mechanic when you see it) please let me know your exact hardware config so i can go back to how things used to be.

Woah there! No need to get hostile; this is a friendly place.

Anyway:
i7 860
GA-P55A-UD4P
4x2GB G.Skill Ripjaws 1600
GTX 260 Core 216
OCZ Agility 120GB
2x Samsung F2EG 2TB

All BIOS options at stock except for all power saving features forced on. Have fun!

 

[MisterDonut]

I don't really get any issues with games (other than artifacts in Crysis: Warhead while CFX'ing 5850's). Of course, as long as reliable parts and not OCZ DDR3 is in your system, I'm sure you'll be fine...

 

[Zap]

There are sometimes issues just because older software doesn't want to run with newer parts or drivers. For instance Crimson Skies works with older but not newer Nvidia drivers. Nothing to do with stability of hardware.

I've found systems to be most stable when running OS, software and drivers that are contemporary to it, plus without having a ton of stuff running in the background.

 

[surg]

Woah there! No need to get hostile; this is a friendly place.

I have no idea how you got that impression, that was in no way meant to be derogatory or hostile in any way.

I was simply pointing out, not all people can discern between broken mechanics and a fully functioning game. Just as if you were to put me in charge of operating a nuclear submarine, i could be floating upside down at the bottom of the sea but i woulden't notice because i have little or no exposure to such things.

This became evident when i would show some friends a game with horrible graphical anomalies/artifacts .... they did not even notice. Some peoples expectations for gaming quality is so rough, even the most hideous problems escape their attention.

-------------------


Thanks for posting your setup. though it saddens me that you have a Gigabyte motherboard, i made an oath never to buy Gigabyte ever again after using this POS.

Fingers crossed for a compatible Asus rig.

 

[surg]

There are sometimes issues just because older software doesn't want to run with newer parts or drivers.
.

I am quite aware of such titles that require older drivers in order to function properly, but that's not what i speak of. Although i wish it were that simple. The bugs mentioned above are unavoidable with certain configurations, even after exhausting all avenues of drivers/software options.

These game breaking issues i speak of have been in existence for up to 4 years, even the developers cannot/don't want to explain it nor have the thousands of people affected by it been able to find a resolution.

Even with the aid of some very knowledgeable people, programmers, devs, and years in discussion, the only thing to conclude is the community blames the game engine and the Developers blame the community. I however blame a Hardware-mismatch as i have first hand experience through testing that the issues are only evident on configuration A and not configuration B, both using identical software and OS, with the exception of model specific drivers.

Nothing to do with stability of hardware.

I never mentioned *stabilty* being a factor here, it has nothing to do with my aforementioned problems.

 

[mfenn]

I however blame a Hardware-mismatch as i have first hand experience through testing that the issues are only evident on configuration A and not configuration B, both using identical software and OS, with the exception of model specific drivers.

Snipped the key point. What you're talking about are (with the possible exception of microstutter) software problems, not hardware problems. The fact that the software is tied to certain hardware is unfortunately, but really has nothing to do with the hardware itself.

 

[surg]

Snipped the key point. What you're talking about are (with the possible exception of microstutter) software problems, not hardware problems. The fact that the software is tied to certain hardware is unfortunately, but really has nothing to do with the hardware itself.

Certainly could be explained in that context or vice-versa, if the engine cannnot work with the hardware's specified software and no 3rd party software to compensate, we must change to a different hardware component which supports the level of software the engine requires, after all an Engine is software.


Ultimately, you can't have one without the other, and when applied to issues like these, sifting through all the drivers in the known universe won't change the fact that you need different hardware to run different software.

 

[Davidh373]

Certainly could be explained in that context or vice-versa, if the engine cannnot work with the hardware's specified software and no 3rd party software to compensate, we must change to a different hardware component which supports the level of software the engine requires, after all an Engine is software.


Ultimately, you can't have one without the other, and when applied to issues like these, sifting through all the drivers in the known universe won't change the fact that you need different hardware to run different software.

What you are talking about is only possible in philosophy, For companies to develop such standards to get rid of some really small issues across such a broad range of hardware combinations would bankrupt many, and would send others limping away only to die later. You will never see a perfect sphere because it will always aliased. There will always be the occasional graphics glitch. The reality is there will never be perfect sight, perfectly accurate color, the perfect response time, zero latency. Really, it's impossible to acquire, not just from a monetary standpoint, but a relative standpoint as well. Since color is relative to an individual's eyes, shape is relative to position. You seem to expect a "magic" combination of parts to fix problems that are impossible to fix. You are not simply talking about a non-glitchy build, but holding an impossible standard to computing as we know it, or even, sight, hearing, feeling. It's simply impossible.

 

[surg]

What you are talking about is only possible in philosophy, For companies to develop such standards to get rid of some really small issues across such a broad range of hardware combinations would bankrupt many, and would send others limping away only to die later. You will never see a perfect sphere because it will always aliased. There will always be the occasional graphics glitch. The reality is there will never be perfect sight, perfectly accurate color, the perfect response time, zero latency. Really, it's impossible to acquire, not just from a monetary standpoint, but a relative standpoint as well. Since color is relative to an individual's eyes, shape is relative to position. You seem to expect a "magic" combination of parts to fix problems that are impossible to fix. You are not simply talking about a non-glitchy build, but holding an impossible standard to computing as we know it, or even, sight, hearing, feeling. It's simply impossible.

Hey there,

I appreciate your constructive input and agree with you for the most part, but i must pull you up on a few things near the end there.

You seem to expect a "magic" combination of parts to fix problems that are impossible to fix.

They are only impossible to fix if you have a certain build, with the right hardware configuration, the problem doesen't exist in the first place. My old machine is proof of that. Also its worth noting that we're talking about a minority of people with these literally game breaking issues, i strongly believe the only reason for this is build variations. Incompatible Hardware/software configurations or however you like to phrase it.


I'm not expecting one system build to eliminate all possible bugs, glitches, abnormalities in games, they will always exist, and can usually be ironed out, i'm specifically referring to system builds that clearly don't work with popular game engines. Using my old rig as a benchmark i can see how these major problems are non-existent, i never had a game that i coulden't play, sure there were some bumps along the way, but that is normal like you said and i know there will never be a totally future proof compatible system, but their are systems out there that can handle any game engine without rendering the game unplayable. *points at old rig*


The whole point of this topic was to stimulate some discussion about system build compatibility and experiences using rigs that gave no problems as opposed to one that exhibits many problems.

 

[Weenoman]

Both of my builds never really had any issues working or running games. I think most people who put together rigs and have issues suffer from the following pitfalls (which I'm sure mr. know-it-all but still has issues will say he doesn't fall into, sure you don't.)

1) Not reading the MOBO manual, this basically summerizes all the compatibility issues for the whole computer. Most ancillary parts work fine in many combinations as long as they are compatible with the motherboard. While your parts are in the mail, read the Mobo guide, and you might just find out a few things before it's too late.

2) Very quick to diagnose failures to heat and bad PSU. Many people I've seen put together rigs and send back good parts because they figured because a rig didn't power on or post, it must be because of heat or PSU.

3) Software, software, software. People not knowing how to properly get all their hardwares drivers working, instead chalking it up to "the game is not compatible, obviously". This is probably the most common problem. Update, patch, download drivers, before you crack your case back open.

I built my first computer out of a total-Macguyver-esce mesh of things I basically stole off ebay (people not knowing how to set reserves etc), and it worked right out of the gate. Because I picked a mobo and read what works with it, and then hunted the compatible parts.

The newer one was even easier because I didn't part-hunt. And to be honest, part manufactures have made the software and drivers even more user friendly.

If building frustrates you, you're at the wrong site, I do builds for friends simply because it's fun, if something is not working and makes you pull your hair out, check out a custom-build site, or Dell.com.

 

[surg]

Both of my builds never really had any issues working or running games. I think most people who put together rigs and have issues suffer from the following pitfalls (which I'm sure mr. know-it-all but still has issues will say he doesn't fall into, sure you don't.)

1) Not reading the MOBO manual, this basically summerizes all the compatibility issues for the whole computer. Most ancillary parts work fine in many combinations as long as they are compatible with the motherboard. While your parts are in the mail, read the Mobo guide, and you might just find out a few things before it's too late.

2) Very quick to diagnose failures to heat and bad PSU. Many people I've seen put together rigs and send back good parts because they figured because a rig didn't power on or post, it must be because of heat or PSU.

3) Software, software, software. People not knowing how to properly get all their hardwares drivers working, instead chalking it up to "the game is not compatible, obviously". This is probably the most common problem. Update, patch, download drivers, before you crack your case back open.

I built my first computer out of a total-Macguyver-esce mesh of things I basically stole off ebay (people not knowing how to set reserves etc), and it worked right out of the gate. Because I picked a mobo and read what works with it, and then hunted the compatible parts.

The newer one was even easier because I didn't part-hunt. And to be honest, part manufactures have made the software and drivers even more user friendly.

If building frustrates you, you're at the wrong site, I do builds for friends simply because it's fun, if something is not working and makes you pull your hair out, check out a custom-build site, or Dell.com.

Hey, appreciate the feedback, although i can't help but feel a condescending attitude here.

Admittedly i don't know half as much as some people that frequent this forum, but i like to think i know enough to differentiate between a minor technicality that falls into my responsibility for system configuration and that of a distinct universal unsolvable issue.

Please remember me specifying these types of issues earlier in the thread, as i mentioned, the nature of these issues elude even the most adept people, leaving software programmers and even developers scratching their heads as they are among some of the people affected. If people with that level of expertise cannot diagnose the problem, i am very doubtful reading Motherboard manuals and reviewing rudimentary configuration parameters would be fruitful at all.

I find it a touch ignorant that someone like yourself unaffected by such problems can easily conclude its the incompetency of people rather than it being a genuine issue. I know its easy to ridicule when you're on the winning side of the fence and although you may be trying to help, please make sure you fully comprehend the underlined specific problems as for basic system compatibility precautions we are evidently past that. Though i apologize that i was not more specific in the OP, i gave more in-depth information in following posts, which i hoped everyone would read.

If building frustrates you, you're at the wrong site, I do builds for friends simply because it's fun, if something is not working and makes you pull your hair out, check out a custom-build site, or Dell.com.

I'm not sure how this fits in with my topic, seems a bit off-topic and rather arrogant. I've been building machines for 13 years for myself and others and thoroughly enjoy it, no need to be so presumptuous.

 

[Davidh373]

Please remember me specifying these types of issues earlier in the thread, as i mentioned, the nature of these issues elude even the most adept people, leaving software programmers and even developers scratching their heads as they are among some of the people affected. If people with that level of expertise cannot diagnose the problem, i am very doubtful reading Motherboard manuals and reviewing rudimentary configuration parameters would be fruitful at all.

I think I'm done here. I fail to notice a single issue with my build that is an incompatibility... You are being far too broad to get anywhere close to an answer. You seem to have specific problems in mind, and you sir started with this condescending attitude. You say that there are all these "problems". When we say there are no such problems you can simply say "well, you can't see the problems because your eyes aren't as keen as mine". It's like you think we're completely ignorant, and we'll let you fool us into superstitions. If you have issues building, they are your issues. Do not assume you have been the only one to build a perfectly working computer.

My computer boots, goes into windows 7, and I've been able to work on Videos and 3D and animations, launch and play games fine since I built it. If you are experiencing the following

games that won't launch, graphical anomalies, sound issues, mouse acceleration, multi-core incompatibility, i was enjoying the best gaming experience of my life, totally problem free with the only problem solving being which game would i play next.

Then you sir are the one having issues that are YOUR fault. Are there configurations that will BARELY work together? Totally. Are they going to lead you to problems? ABSOLUTELY, almost certainly. Are there configurations that work together perfectly? NO! There never will be, and there never was. Perhaps you were experiencing problems that you didn't notice...?

 

[surg]

I think I'm done here. I fail to notice a single issue with my build that is an incompatibility... You are being far too broad to get anywhere close to an answer. You seem to have specific problems in mind, and you sir started with this condescending attitude. You say that there are all these "problems". When we say there are no such problems you can simply say "well, you can't see the problems because your eyes aren't as keen as mine". It's like you think we're completely ignorant, and we'll let you fool us into superstitions. If you have issues building, they are your issues. Do not assume you have been the only one to build a perfectly working computer.

My computer boots, goes into windows 7, and I've been able to work on Videos and 3D and animations, launch and play games fine since I built it. If you are experiencing the following



Then you sir are the one having issues that are YOUR fault. Are there configurations that will BARELY work together? Totally. Are they going to lead you to problems? ABSOLUTELY, almost certainly. Are there configurations that work together perfectly? NO! There never will be, and there never was. Perhaps you were experiencing problems that you didn't notice...?

Sorry i only got half way through the first paragraph before my eyes glazed over from all the vacuous dribble. There is simply too much here to correct you on, i actually don't know where to start. I can see its futile discussing this further with you, all i get is arrogant, childish insults.

I was trying to be civilized, but realize most of you are here to bask in your own opulence, nobody could ever be as awesome as you guys and have a problem like this ... simply impossible!!

 

[Davidh373]

Sorry i only got half way through the first paragraph before my eyes glazed over from all the vacuous dribble. There is simply too much here to correct you on, i actually don't know where to start. I can see its futile discussing this further with you, all i get is arrogant, childish insults.

I was trying to be civilized, but realize most of you are here to bask in your own opulence, nobody could ever be as awesome as you guys and have a problem like this ... simply impossible!!

Not really any of my intentions described there, but see what you want in it. Have fun fixing all those generalized problems you don't seem to want to clarify for us.

EDIT: You were trying to be civilized but failing miserably by the way...

EDIT 2: and also, it's not that we can't or won't have issues like your's, but we don't have enough information to see where your problems lie. If we had such issues and did not know how to fix them, we would be far more specific. We aren't condescending to you, but we have asked many times for further details, and you continue to be so insulted you cant possibly answer any of the questions. This has been a horrible thread, and you are a either a complete idiot, or you want to feel better than everyone else here. In either case, I would not like to feed this further. I'm unsubscribing, and washing my hands clean of this awful person.

 

[Weenoman]

Another topic where the OP gets angry at the repliers for not giving him exactly what he wants?



Looks like it