Thanks, Apple...

[Pliablemoose]

Oh no, I'm sure. Just that to say it's better than a traditional computer at education is... quite a bold statement, and would require a lot of backing.

On top of that 14 iPads simply isn't enough in my opinions, unless only very privileged classrooms would be able to use them.

You ain't seen nothin' yet...

 

[runawayprisoner]

You ain't seen nothin' yet...

From my own experience with an iPad, it took 2 years for certain things to be implemented, and in the end, a computer was still far more useful. At least for college level.

If there is something else I haven't seen beside textbooks, interactive charts, drawing apps, physics simulation, educational games, PDF reader and the web browser, I'd love to see them...

 

[akugami]

We cannot afford iPads for the rest of our users, especially if the lowest unit price we can get is $479. The best product for one section of our users is the iPad... not necessarily the best for the other two.

I don't know what your specific uses for the iPads are but do keep in mind the support costs for a mixed environment is higher than for a single device. Even if the initial cost of entry is higher. Either go all Android or go all iOS.

My company currently releases Android only devices to interface with our products, however due to market demand, we will be releasing an iOS version. You can bet your rear end it's going to cost us more to support both platforms.

As an aside, I think it's retarded Apple only offers a $20 in packs of 10 on iPads. Seriously, they should be offering at least a $50 discount for education. Apple can offer it at a $100 and still make a killing...

I know we don't see eye to eye at times zsdersw but I'm a firm believer in educating the young'uns. While Apple may be better on the education front (a major reason I'm sticking with iOS), I'd have to seriously ask if it's at all possible you can move entirely to Android without any major consequences. What apps/uses specifically are you using the iPads for that can't be done on Android?

 

[Phynaz]

14 just isn't enough to get a discount. Call up Amazon and see what they will do for 14. Probably around $20 also.

You expect a company to take a > 50% margin hit then you are going to have to make that up with some significant volume.

 

[Pliablemoose]

From my own experience with an iPad, it took 2 years for certain things to be implemented, and in the end, a computer was still far more useful. At least for college level.

If there is something else I haven't seen beside textbooks, interactive charts, drawing apps, physics simulation, educational games, PDF reader and the web browser, I'd love to see them...

I'm suggesting that the device(s) will be far more useful in the future.

 

[dougp]

I'd still like to know which route the OP went to get his pricing, was it online or via a phone call to a sales rep?

 

[runawayprisoner]

I'm suggesting that the device(s) will be far more useful in the future.

Then why not wait until the future when they will be that useful... to purchase? If you buy them now, obviously they won't be as "useful" as their future versions.

Prime example of which... iPad 3 with 4x the pixel count on the display.

 

[J-Money]

14 just isn't enough to get a discount. Call up Amazon and see what they will do for 14. Probably around $20 also.

You expect a company to take a > 50% margin hit then you are going to have to make that up with some significant volume.

This.

14 is hardly "bulk". If a significant discount was offered at 14, people with money would buy 14 and resell them at a profit.

 

[zsdersw]

Yes, they are. Just go to the online store and buy them. I'm a teacher and our IT people bought quite a few iPad refurbs for the school, I even bought one myself for personal use. Just call Apple and talk with them, they'll hook you up.

I'd still like to know which route the OP went to get his pricing, was it online or via a phone call to a sales rep?

I'm working with an Apple education representative. When I go to the online store for education, none of the refurbished iPads are listed.

Did your IT people buy the iPads with a school purchase order? Personal purchases are different than purchases for your institution.

 

[zsdersw]

14 just isn't enough to get a discount. Call up Amazon and see what they will do for 14. Probably around $20 also.

You expect a company to take a > 50% margin hit then you are going to have to make that up with some significant volume.

14 was just an example to illustrate the ridiculousness of only offering a discount in quantities evenly divisible by 10.

We're going to be purchasing a total of 270. If we purchased 275 or 326 we'd be paying full retail for any beyond the 10-packs... and that's pretty stupid.

 

[zsdersw]

I don't know what your specific uses for the iPads are but do keep in mind the support costs for a mixed environment is higher than for a single device. Even if the initial cost of entry is higher. Either go all Android or go all iOS.

I know. I've worked in IT for a long time. I'm a one-man IT department, but even at the end of the 1-to-1 project with every teacher and student having a new computer or tablet, the total number of devices in the district will be well within the scope of IT support I've done in the past for other districts.

I know we don't see eye to eye at times zsdersw but I'm a firm believer in educating the young'uns. While Apple may be better on the education front (a major reason I'm sticking with iOS), I'd have to seriously ask if it's at all possible you can move entirely to Android without any major consequences. What apps/uses specifically are you using the iPads for that can't be done on Android?

Well, like many school districts, mine struggles with teacher adoption and integration of technology. It's a mixed bag; we have some teachers still using overhead projectors and transparencies even though there's an LCD projector already mounted in the ceiling and connected to their computer with an interactive whiteboard device (Mimio), while other teachers are pushing the envelope. The level with the most teachers who are pushing the envelope is the level we're equipping with iPads. They've done the most planning, selected the most apps, and are already intimately familiar with the iPad. If I'm looking at what's going to be the most effectively used in the classroom by this group of teachers, the iPad is a pretty clear choice.

 

[zsdersw]

Oh no, I'm sure. Just that to say it's better than a traditional computer at education is... quite a bold statement, and would require a lot of backing.

On top of that 14 iPads simply isn't enough in my opinions, unless only very privileged classrooms would be able to use them.

Again... 14 is just an example. The total we're going to be purchasing is 270 this coming fiscal year, and another 280-300 in each of the next two years. The funding is there this coming fiscal year for iPads, but will be about 20% less for the other years.

Traditional computers have limits. They're also going to be playing a much smaller role in the world they're going to enter after graduating. If we're going to educate children for the future, a netbook/ultraportable laptop or traditional computer isn't necessarily the best basic platform.

http://mashable.com/2011/05/16/tablets-education/

http://edutechdebate.org/tablet-com...-impact-of-ipads-on-education-one-year-later/

The traditional PC will still have a role in education... for a long time. We're not getting rid of our desktops and laptops.

 

[J-Money]

Again... 14 is just an example. The total we're going to be purchasing is 270 this coming fiscal year, and another 280-300 in each of the next two years. The funding is there this coming fiscal year for iPads, but will be about 20% less for the other years.

Just googled and it seems that yes $20 is the best you can get, even at 300+. Crazy.

Also seems the reason they only do 10 at a time is that the packages come as 10s. You don't get 10 retail packaged ones, just a big box with 10 in it. Too much to seperate I guess.

If you need 326 just buy 330 and give me 4. I'll give you $50.

Saw it here: http://techcrunch.com/2010/03/21/bulk-ipads-the-more-you-buy-the-more-you-save/

But hey, you can possibly get 50% discount on all the Apps! http://ismashphone.com/2010/08/apple-offers-educational-institutions-bulk-discounts-on-ios-apps.html

 

[zsdersw]

Yep, though most of the apps that the teachers want to use are free.

 

[zsdersw]

This is complete and utter bullshit. I have been in IT for 30 years and I cringe every time I see a 2 year old holding an ipad. Not because its a douchey apple product but because kids are stupid today. Really, kids today aged 10-21 are stupid fucking morons compared to kids that grew up WITHOUT tech. Sure, pull some stats out of your ass that says kids today are smarter because they are passing more tests to day than they were in the 70s and I will say we didnt cheat as much in the 70s like kids are doing today. Phones, watches all sorts of gadgets kids use to cheat today. PLUS, IMO, the testing/learning curve is so fucking easy today. Really, I see the tests and the homework my sons gets as a senior in HS and its literally thet shit I learned in middleschool or evan earlier.

Ok, rant tuned off.

Ah yes... it's truly the failure of public education that people like you... completely uninformed and unqualified to speak authoritatively about how education works... are often the same people who run for and get elected to school boards.

Yes, there are many things wrong with what students are taught and how they're assessed. That is not a mark against technology in general or the iPad in particular. It's a mark against the curriculum and staff development efforts in some districts that often are generally a failure.

 

[alent1234]

This is complete and utter bullshit. I have been in IT for 30 years and I cringe every time I see a 2 year old holding an ipad. Not because its a douchey apple product but because kids are stupid today. Really, kids today aged 10-21 are stupid fucking morons compared to kids that grew up WITHOUT tech. Sure, pull some stats out of your ass that says kids today are smarter because they are passing more tests to day than they were in the 70s and I will say we didnt cheat as much in the 70s like kids are doing today. Phones, watches all sorts of gadgets kids use to cheat today. PLUS, IMO, the testing/learning curve is so fucking easy today. Really, I see the tests and the homework my sons gets as a senior in HS and its literally thet shit I learned in middleschool or evan earlier.

Ok, rant tuned off.

moving to a better school district might help. my 4 year old is reading a little and learning to write and do simple math in preschool. and he's zoned for one of the better elementary schools in NYC

 

[Pliablemoose]

14 was just an example to illustrate the ridiculousness of only offering a discount in quantities evenly divisible by 10.

We're going to be purchasing a total of 270. If we purchased 275 or 326 we'd be paying full retail for any beyond the 10-packs... and that's pretty stupid.

:hmm:

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

We're moving toward 1-to-1 computing, where each student has a computing device that they can use both in and out of school.

We're also moving toward "the cloud" with Google Apps.

Hve you tried informing them that there is a statistic that can't be ingnored? Computer uses in schools has risen steadily over the last 20 years. Overall grades and graduation rates for most districts has fallen in the same time frame.

Stop wasting money on toys. I'm all for gadgets and gizmos, but using iPads for school? That's a joke.

 

[zsdersw]

Hve you tried informing them that there is a statistic that can't be ingnored? Computer uses in schools has risen steadily over the last 20 years. Overall grades and graduation rates for most districts has fallen in the same time frame.

... meaning what, exactly? Computers are responsible for lower grades and graduation rates?

Stop wasting money on toys. I'm all for gadgets and gizmos, but using iPads for school? That's a joke.

The data suggests you're full of sh!t.

 

[pm]

Chill it down, guys. zsdersw, if you could tone down the attitude that would help. And the rest of you, please keep it civil.

Moderator PM

 

[zsdersw]

Chill it down, guys. zsdersw, if you could tone down the attitude that would help. And the rest of you, please keep it civil.

Moderator PM

I'd say they're responsible for their reaction to my "attitude".

 

[runawayprisoner]

Again... 14 is just an example. The total we're going to be purchasing is 270 this coming fiscal year, and another 280-300 in each of the next two years. The funding is there this coming fiscal year for iPads, but will be about 20% less for the other years.

Traditional computers have limits. They're also going to be playing a much smaller role in the world they're going to enter after graduating. If we're going to educate children for the future, a netbook/ultraportable laptop or traditional computer isn't necessarily the best basic platform.

http://mashable.com/2011/05/16/tablets-education/

http://edutechdebate.org/tablet-com...-impact-of-ipads-on-education-one-year-later/

The traditional PC will still have a role in education... for a long time. We're not getting rid of our desktops and laptops.

At 300 quantity, well, that's a different story.

And yes, I'd agree now that $20 cut is simply not enough. We're looking at a $6000 saving for the entire purchase there. Not a lot, honestly, for 300 units. It accounts for... something like 4% of retail pricing.

I'd think, though, that the purchase could have come after the iPad 3 is introduced. If nothing, at least you could ask for deeper discount now that the iPad 2 has become last generation hardware, but I do understand that large deployments require a lot of preparation time, and you guys would want to get it all set up before Spring. Or you'd miss an entire school term.

 

[zsdersw]

Yes, I'm hoping that the iPad 3 will make the 270 iPad 2's we order in the summer a lot cheaper... if we can get the timing right.

We bought 20 iPads now for the teachers in that level to get ready for the fall.. when the students in that level receive theirs.

 

[hanoverphist]

a few years ago, dell went into my kids school and set up computing labs with 50ish work stations, printer for each row and scanners in the back. they also gave every classroom 5 laptops for the students and 1 for the teacher. they worked with the district on getting their wifi set up as well. all donated. why? im sure the replacement value and maintenance was worth far more than the actual stuff they donated to the district.

totally irrelevant anecdote, but hey... if you work for a district, use some of that name muscle to call apple directly and see if they will work a deal with you. i do 95% of my work with municipalities, and when they have a dell account we piggyback on their credentials. my reseller prices are crushed when compared to the deals dell gives them. mebbe apple will do the same.

 

[zsdersw]

a few years ago, dell went into my kids school and set up computing labs with 50ish work stations, printer for each row and scanners in the back. they also gave every classroom 5 laptops for the students and 1 for the teacher. they worked with the district on getting their wifi set up as well. all donated. why? im sure the replacement value and maintenance was worth far more than the actual stuff they donated to the district.

totally irrelevant anecdote, but hey... if you work for a district, use some of that name muscle to call apple directly and see if they will work a deal with you. i do 95% of my work with municipalities, and when they have a dell account we piggyback on their credentials. my reseller prices are crushed when compared to the deals dell gives them. mebbe apple will do the same.

Yeah, wish I could say stuff like that worked for us, but it didn't.