TF2. Anybody notice they removed the backburner health bonus?

[TestedAcorn]

If you ask me, the normal flamer is more overpowered than backburner. The only difference is the backburner only works if you hit them in the back. The reg. flamer can propel fucking rockets and grenades back, plus it can push medics away from their long awaited uber charge.

 

[imported_Slimy]

Originally posted by: TestedAcorn
It doesn't matter if they have 50 more hp. If they get you in the back, you're probably gonna die mate.

Well, yeah. That's kind of the point. The problem was that if the attacked you from the front, using the backburner, their HP bonus made it very likely that you would lose, just because they would outlast you. The weapon that was designed to be used from behind was also the preferred weapon for attacking from the front.

 

[TiestoRocks]

I switched back to normal flamethrower after they removed the health bonus.

 

[clamum]

Good, they removed that shit? Fucking pyros. Hopefully they won't be so overpowered now. The worst thing about them is you burn for so friggin long after getting set on fire, I don't know how many times I've gotten lit the f up and almost made to to my team's health locker and die right in front of it after burning for what felt like 20 seconds.

 

[imported_Imp]

Originally posted by: Slimy

Originally posted by: TestedAcorn
It doesn't matter if they have 50 more hp. If they get you in the back, you're probably gonna die mate.

Well, yeah. That's kind of the point. The problem was that if the attacked you from the front, using the backburner, their HP bonus made it very likely that you would lose, just because they would outlast you. The weapon that was designed to be used from behind was also the preferred weapon for attacking from the front.

I gave up the regular flame thrower because of the ability to outlast with the backburner. After factoring in lag and the hit & miss of the reflection/airblast, you chose between a near guarantee of additional life or a chance of additional life. Don't get me wrong, I got out of a lot of situations cause I airblasted an enemy away and ran. However, Most of the time I went head to head with a backburner pyro, I either had to airblast and run or die.

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

Originally posted by: skace

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
The fact that a pyro can in certain situations and with a certain degree of skill, kill a soldier isn't a sign that they are imbalanced.

alias pyrobot "+moveforward;+attack";

And that's the problem, wasn't it? It wasn't a certain degree of skill, it was a complete lack of skill. Pyros with the faceburner threw all of their previous skill out the window for a strategy that broke down to spawning and running directly at anything that was considered an enemy.

And how the hell does a soldier rocket jump with impunity. You realize 2 rocket jumps is the majority of a soldiers health bar right? If you are a pyro and a soldier is fighting you by rocket jumping, here is an amazing protip, back up and shoot the fucker with the shotgun once, congrats you just won.

However, I stand by the fact that the best way they could have rebalanced pyros vs soldiers is actually a soldier fix. If you notice people in TF2 can rocket jump facing forwards, this is odd since you would think it would be pretty counter-productive but the fact is that in some scenarios rockets fired in front of you still propel you forward. This also occurs when fighting enemies, I've shot rockets at the feet of a pyro who isn't jumping and had him get fired at me. This should not be possible considering unless he jumped over the rocket there is no way that could have thrown him forward at all. Fix that and you can give pyros another 300 health and it won't matter.

Incorrect. Having to be point blank to use your primary weapon means you need to use skill to close on the other team. Or that your team is doing so well that the other team is relatively pinned down in which case you'd have just as easy a time with a demo or heavy. As soon as he comes into the open, a pyro attracts a lot of attention from everybody and the extra HP gave him enough resilliance to get close to somebody. While other classes are launching attacks form across the map, that's seems fair for the pyro.

How much BB pyro did you play to know? Give me a scenario where a pyro killed you and I'll give you a hand exlaining how to avoid it happening in the future. Or you could just cry "nerf" which I suppose is easier.

 

[skace]

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
How much BB pyro did you play to know? Give me a scenario where a pyro killed you and I'll give you a hand exlaining how to avoid it happening in the future. Or you could just cry "nerf" which I suppose is easier.

Did you mean to reply to me with that? I don't see where I cried nerf. I was talking about the fact that using the back burner was not a matter of skill, it is now which is why most pyros won't use it now. I always used the air blaster because I consider that a weapon of skill with a 100 different uses from anti-ubers, to turrent defense, to rocket deflection, it's practically a swiss army knife of a weapon.

I don't have any scenarios off the top of the head where a pyro killed me with the back burner because none of the scenarios were in any way memorable. I have never had a pyro kill me with the flame thrower and go "wow that was a unique kill". I've had a few pyros reflect back some mean rockets my way that I was lucky to dodge and I gave props to them because that was a much more impressive display in my opinion.

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

Originally posted by: skace

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
How much BB pyro did you play to know? Give me a scenario where a pyro killed you and I'll give you a hand exlaining how to avoid it happening in the future. Or you could just cry "nerf" which I suppose is easier.

Did you mean to reply to me with that? I don't see where I cried nerf. I was talking about the fact that using the back burner was not a matter of skill, it is now which is why most pyros won't use it now. I always used the air blaster because I consider that a weapon of skill with a 100 different uses from anti-ubers, to turrent defense, to rocket deflection, it's practically a swiss army knife of a weapon.

I don't have any scenarios off the top of the head where a pyro killed me with the back burner because none of the scenarios were in any way memorable. I have never had a pyro kill me with the flame thrower and go "wow that was a unique kill". I've had a few pyros reflect back some mean rockets my way that I was lucky to dodge and I gave props to them because that was a much more impressive display in my opinion.

So how is the BB in any way close to the level of the AB for a pyro? That's my thing. The compression blast so far exceeds auto-crits-frtom-behind tyhat the extra HP was needed to make the BB viable. 25 HP I thought would have even been enough.

 

[Smilin]

LONG time pyro here.

I hadn't noticed. I tried out the BB but it just wasn't worth giving up the AB. The "from behind" angle for the BB was way too small and you could barely get a crit circling a heavy (plus the axe works better). The health increase was supposed to offset the loss of the AB.

I think it was a bad move to remove the health bonus...even though I don't use the BB and never benefited from it. If anything the airblast is the overpowered skill. A medic can work for a full minute or two getting a uber ready only to get stuffed by the first pyro that they run into. The AB has taken a great deal of the fear out of the oncoming uber.


The good news: maybe this will stop so many noobs from playing pyro so the veterans can get back to doing our thing.

 

[skace]

Originally posted by: Smilin
The AB has taken a great deal of the fear out of the oncoming uber.

Thank god too because the uber is the fucking stupidest skill to ever enter an FPS game. Nothing says "I suck" like relying on invulnerability to make any progress. I love the fact that a pyro can stuff an uber right back in the medics face. It's even better when someone turns the corner with an uber, a pyro puts them in the air and a turret pins them to a ceiling. You can almost taste the frustration.

And yes, perhaps the BB needs to be rethought out based on the fact that it is now not as good as the air blast. However, I don't expect the pyro will get a weapon equally as good as the air blast and I really think it would be a shame if the air blast got nerfed since it adds such a unique dynamic to the game.

Perhaps they should have given the BB a speed bonus instead of a health bonus or something else to make it more useful.