Texas Rape Survivors Billed for Rape Kits

[n yusef]

KPRC Houston reports.

"I'm the victim, and yet here I am. I'm asked to pay this bill and my credit's going to get hurt," said a single mom from Houston. She received bills marked, "delinquent," after she visited a hospital where police told her to have evidence gathered. Officers assured her she would not pay a dime for that rape kit to be handled. "That was unreal," she said. "I never thought I'd be out anything for what I went through."

"There may be lots of survivors who have this happen and we don't know because they don't know that they shouldn't be getting the bills," she said. "A lot of people aren't going to ask. They're just going to go ahead and pay it and move forward with their lives. They don't want to keep re-living that experience," said Young.

Texas State Comptroller's office figures show the fund has tens of millions of dollars left over at the end of each year. In September 2006, the balance was $67,058,646 and one year later, the balance was $57,669,432. In 2008, that figure was up again to $66,572,261 that was left unspent in the fund. Attorney General's spokesman Jerry Strickland said the crime victim fund is enforcing strict guidelines imposed by the legislature as to which bills are paid and which victims are sent a denial notice. Otherwise, he said that fund could become "insolvent." He said state law is clear that crime victims must exhaust all other potential funding sources, such as local police or their own health insurance. "The legislature set it up that way," said Strickland.

CNN Video

There is no excuse for this policy. Texas has extra money laying around to pay for rape kits, which are evidence in criminal prosecutions. This policy sends a clear message to society: the working class do not need justice. Rapists: rape a poor woman. She won't be able to afford the evidence needed to prosecute you.

That the state of Texas thinks it OK to send bill collectors after rape survivors, to constantly remind them of their trauma and the lack of importance the state places on capturing their victim demonstrates in incredible lack of empathy and understanding.

I ask, do you think Texas would have this policy if there were more women in positions of power? I do not mean to derail my own thread into another Affirmative Action debate (I doubt any opinions will be changed by that). Rather, I ask if ones identity makes one less likely to understand certain perspectives and positions, and if diversity in government is necessary to present these other perspectives and positions.

EDIT: I just remembered that Sarah Palin also supported legislation that would bill rape survivors. Obviously, women will not be automatically more empathetic of rape victims. I think there is some correlation, but I have no evidence.

 

[Carmen813]

Rape victims are treated pretty damn poorly, which is why it's one of the least reported, yet most common, crimes in the country. Something like 1/4 to 1/2 of all college woman meet the legal definition of having been raped during their college career. It's just disturbing.

Rape kits themselves are extremely cheap, like 20 dollars. Then again, what would you expect from the state that only made it illegal for men to rape their wives in the 1990s?

 

[Kadarin]

Originally posted by: n yusef
EDIT: I just remembered that Sarah Palin also supported legislation that would bill rape survivors. Obviously, women will not be automatically more empathetic of rape victims. I think there is some correlation, but I have no evidence.

Well, remember that Sarah Palin was never exactly a shining beacon of support for womens' rights.

 

[n yusef]

Originally posted by: Kadarin

Originally posted by: n yusef
EDIT: I just remembered that Sarah Palin also supported legislation that would bill rape survivors. Obviously, women will not be automatically more empathetic of rape victims. I think there is some correlation, but I have no evidence.

Well, remember that Sarah Palin was never exactly a shining beacon of support for womens' rights.

Obviously. I just didn't want to attack someone in the OP.

 

[waggy]

WTF thats insane.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally posted by: Carmen813Something like 1/4 to 1/2 of all college woman meet the legal definition of having been raped during their college career. It's just disturbing.

My understanding of the situation is that Marxist-Feminists have defined rape to be so broad that it ends up encompassing huge amounts of women who haven't been raped resulting in that obviously bogus stat. There's even a professor of law who once infamously said "all sex is rape."

If a woman is a little bit drunk and consents to sex, is that rape? If a woman consents to sex and then feels badly about it later, is that rape? If a guy lies to a woman and tells her that he's a movie star and she consents to sex, is that rape?

The bogus claim that most women are victims of rape along with the bogus claim that women aren't paid the same for equal work is just part of the too often unrecognized war our society is waging against males. To learn more, read the books "The Myth of Male Power" and "Why Men Earn More" (they work longer and harder at less pleasant and less safe jobs) by former NOW board member and male feminist-turned men's rights advocate Warren Farrell.

 

[NeoV]

Whipper, the number of women raped is a shameful statistic, regardless of what the true percentage is...

waging a war against males? spare me

 

[n yusef]

Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper

Originally posted by: Carmen813Something like 1/4 to 1/2 of all college woman meet the legal definition of having been raped during their college career. It's just disturbing.

My understanding of the situation is that Marxist-Feminists have defined rape to be so broad that it ends up encompassing huge amounts of women who haven't been raped resulting in that obviously bogus stat. There's even a professor of law who once infamously said "all sex is rape."

If a woman is a little bit drunk and consents to sex, is that rape? If a woman consents to sex and then feels badly about it later, is that rape? If a guy lies to a woman and tells her that he's a movie star and she consents to sex, is that rape?

The bogus claim that most women are victims of rape along with the bogus claim that women aren't paid the same for equal work is just part of the too often unrecognized war our society is waging against males. To learn more, read the books "The Myth of Male Power" and "Why Men Earn More" (they work longer and harder at less pleasant and less safe jobs) by former NOW board member and male feminist-turned men's rights advocate Warren Farrell.

I see your Men's Rights books and raise you Yes Means Yes: Visons of Female Sexual Power and a World Without Rape.

Rape is a problem, and it is under-reported. I don't really feel like arguing with a rape-apologizing MRA though.

 

[Perknose]

Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper
...Men's rights advocate Warren Farrell.

???????? Did somebody rape your common sense or were you just drunk and said, "Yes!" when Farrell whipped his stupidity out? :shocked:

 

[engineereeyore]

Why not just make payment for rape kits conditional upon results? The idea of rape seriously bothers and concerns me, so I certainly think such services need to be available to any woman at any time. However, considering the number of false rape allegations, why not take such a stance? Additionally, if rape is every proven at some later point in time, the cost should be refundable.

Just an idea.

 

[whylaff]

Originally posted by: engineereeyore
Why not just make payment for rape kits conditional upon results? The idea of rape seriously bothers and concerns me, so I certainly think such services need to be available to any woman at any time. However, considering the number of false rape allegations, why not take such a stance? Additionally, if rape is every proven at some later point in time, the cost should be refundable.

Just an idea.

Yeah. Sure. :roll:

Hey, why don?t we just charge everyone who reports a crime with falsifying a police report? We?ll just drop the charges and let them out of jail after it?s proven that they weren?t lying. I doubt it would discourage anyone from reporting a crime, I mean, what could they possibly have to worry about?

 

[Phokus]

republicans.txt

texas.txt

let texas secede

 

[techs]

Texas needs a giant enema.

 

[Siddhartha]

Texas is Republican land. Tough cookies, if you can not pay your way.

 

[Fox5]

Originally posted by: Carmen813
Rape victims are treated pretty damn poorly, which is why it's one of the least reported, yet most common, crimes in the country. Something like 1/4 to 1/2 of all college woman meet the legal definition of having been raped during their college career. It's just disturbing.

Rape kits themselves are extremely cheap, like 20 dollars. Then again, what would you expect from the state that only made it illegal for men to rape their wives in the 1990s?

1/4th to 1/2th? That's an awfully high statistic. I somehow doubt even that percentage of women (50%) are having one night stands in college, let alone rape. Whatever it is, it's too high, but that would mean 1 out of ever 2 collegiate women. My school is fairly heavy on partying, and even then I'd only say about 50% of the school even engages in any type of partying.

 

[daveymark]

Originally posted by: techs
Texas needs a giant enema.

and a rape kit afterward.

 

[cubby1223]

Please, the only reason this is a news story here is because it occurred in Texas. I bet the same things happen all around the country, including in the "blue states".

 

[Double Trouble]

The 1/4 to 1/2 is a complete BS stat of course, but that's besides the point.

I agree that the policy of billing a victim for a rape kit is morally indefensible. Someone in TX needs to fix it, stat.

 

[n yusef]

Originally posted by: Fox5

Originally posted by: Carmen813
Rape victims are treated pretty damn poorly, which is why it's one of the least reported, yet most common, crimes in the country. Something like 1/4 to 1/2 of all college woman meet the legal definition of having been raped during their college career. It's just disturbing.

Rape kits themselves are extremely cheap, like 20 dollars. Then again, what would you expect from the state that only made it illegal for men to rape their wives in the 1990s?

1/4th to 1/2th? That's an awfully high statistic. I somehow doubt even that percentage of women (50%) are having one night stands in college, let alone rape. Whatever it is, it's too high, but that would mean 1 out of ever 2 collegiate women. My school is fairly heavy on partying, and even then I'd only say about 50% of the school even engages in any type of partying.

What university do you attend? "Partying" is relative, but I would wager that a very high percentage (read: higher than 50) of university students use intoxicating substances and engage in "promiscuous" sexual behavior. However, I'm not sure how relevent this is to the study of rape. Alcohol and one-night stands don't rape people, rapists do. I believe that the implicit victim blaming in your post encourages rape culture by shaming victims into silence.

It's difficult to study rape, especially date rape because stigmas prevent many survivors from reporting it. Myths about "no means yes" and the irresistibly of women to heterosexual males ("boys will be boys") make it hard for many rape victims to acknowledge that they were raped. How rape is defined will determine how common it is. Let's examine the following circumstance:

Two people, Dan and Vicki, are be comfortable with one sexual activity. Dan "escalates" and attempts to do something that makes Vicki is uncomfortable. She expresses her discomfort, but is ignored. Dan tries again, but with a little more force this time. He is getting angry; he pressures Vicki into an unwanted sexual activity, and eventually she concedes. Do you think this is rape?

Vicki "consented" to the sex, but not because she wanted to. Rather, she was probably fearful of an angry man who was getting increasingly physical. She may have thought her safest option was to lie there and "get it over with." Vicki may have internalized victim blaming rhetoric, and thought that she couldn't be raped because she had already done another sexual activity with Dan. She would have teased him, and he would be unable to control his hormones. She may have thought that this type of sexual experience is normal, and assumed that she just needed to accept it if she wanted to attract men.

Rape is more than a random attack from an armed man in a dark alley. Often, it happens without great resistance, and some people take this to mean that it was "sex that she regrets." I cannot agree with this assessment.

 

[0marTheZealot]

Originally posted by: n yusef

Originally posted by: Fox5

Originally posted by: Carmen813
Rape victims are treated pretty damn poorly, which is why it's one of the least reported, yet most common, crimes in the country. Something like 1/4 to 1/2 of all college woman meet the legal definition of having been raped during their college career. It's just disturbing.

Rape kits themselves are extremely cheap, like 20 dollars. Then again, what would you expect from the state that only made it illegal for men to rape their wives in the 1990s?

1/4th to 1/2th? That's an awfully high statistic. I somehow doubt even that percentage of women (50%) are having one night stands in college, let alone rape. Whatever it is, it's too high, but that would mean 1 out of ever 2 collegiate women. My school is fairly heavy on partying, and even then I'd only say about 50% of the school even engages in any type of partying.

What university do you attend? "Partying" is relative, but I would wager that a very high percentage (read: higher than 50) of university students use intoxicating substances and engage in "promiscuous" sexual behavior. However, I'm not sure how relevent this is to the study of rape. Alcohol and one-night stands don't rape people, rapists do. I believe that the implicit victim blaming in your post encourages rape culture by shaming victims into silence.

It's difficult to study rape, especially date rape because stigmas prevent many survivors from reporting it. Myths about "no means yes" and the irresistibly of women to heterosexual males ("boys will be boys") make it hard for many rape victims to acknowledge that they were raped. How rape is defined will determine how common it is. Let's examine the following circumstance:

Two people, Dan and Vicki, are be comfortable with one sexual activity. Dan "escalates" and attempts to do something that makes Vicki is uncomfortable. She expresses her discomfort, but is ignored. Dan tries again, but with a little more force this time. He is getting angry; he pressures Vicki into an unwanted sexual activity, and eventually she concedes. Do you think this is rape?

Vicki "consented" to the sex, but not because she wanted to. Rather, she was probably fearful of an angry man who was getting increasingly physical. She may have thought her safest option was to lie there and "get it over with." Vicki may have internalized victim blaming rhetoric, and thought that she couldn't be raped because she had already done another sexual activity with Dan. She would have teased him, and he would be unable to control his hormones. She may have thought that this type of sexual experience is normal, and assumed that she just needed to accept it if she wanted to attract men.

Rape is more than a random attack from an armed man in a dark alley. Often, it happens without great resistance, and some people take this to mean that it was "sex that she regrets." I cannot agree with this assessment.

That's not rape. Definitely not rape.

I'm going with the Miller Test here.

Charging for rape kits is one thing, but this? This is some ambulance-chasing lawyer shit.

 

[Carmen813]

Typically, we look at sexual victimization when doing researching. That includes unwanted touching, coercion (i.e, extreme psychological pressure to obtain consent), non-penetrating (i.e, attempted rape), and penetrating (i.e, completed rape). Studies find that women 30-40% of women experience one of these during their time in college. Obviously, these three things vary in their severity. Many women do not consider fondling that big of a deal, but sadly the rates of attempted and completed rape are much, much higher than crime statistics would lead you to believe.

 

[Carmen813]

Originally posted by: Fox5

Originally posted by: Carmen813
Rape victims are treated pretty damn poorly, which is why it's one of the least reported, yet most common, crimes in the country. Something like 1/4 to 1/2 of all college woman meet the legal definition of having been raped during their college career. It's just disturbing.

Rape kits themselves are extremely cheap, like 20 dollars. Then again, what would you expect from the state that only made it illegal for men to rape their wives in the 1990s?

1/4th to 1/2th? That's an awfully high statistic. I somehow doubt even that percentage of women (50%) are having one night stands in college, let alone rape. Whatever it is, it's too high, but that would mean 1 out of ever 2 collegiate women. My school is fairly heavy on partying, and even then I'd only say about 50% of the school even engages in any type of partying.

It's been demonstrated by research repeatedly. The number is around 30% on average, up to 50% depending on the circumstances. Yes, it's a high statistic, which is why it's been tested repeatedly, with different populations, in different locations. They all come up about the same, it's basically an epidemic.

One study I have found that 3/4 of women had engaged in a hookup, 1/3 of those hookups included intercourse. Those numbers are typical.

 

[Carmen813]

Originally posted by: Double Trouble
The 1/4 to 1/2 is a complete BS stat of course, but that's besides the point.

I agree that the policy of billing a victim for a rape kit is morally indefensible. Someone in TX needs to fix it, stat.

No, sadly, it's not a "BS" stat. To be more accurate I should have said 1/4 to 1/3, but I've seen studies where the number is near 50%. It depends on the population being studied, women in the military tend to have even higher rates than civilians. As I mentioned above, I spent my entire last semester writing three research papers on the subject of female college rape victims.

The vast majority of rapes are acquaintance rapes, typically involving alcohol or drugs, and typically occurring during the first two years of college (Freshman are by far at highest risk). I also helped to create and conduct a study for my advanced research class that had similar findings.

The "hook up" culture has made it much worse. Women go out, get absolutely wasted, and wake up in someone else's room with no idea how they got there. Legal Consent cannot be obtained while you are inebriated, and such a situation meets the legal definition of rape.

Oh, and since it'll come up sooner or later, my name is Carmen, but I'm male.

 

[n yusef]

Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot

Originally posted by: n yusef
What university do you attend? "Partying" is relative, but I would wager that a very high percentage (read: higher than 50) of university students use intoxicating substances and engage in "promiscuous" sexual behavior. However, I'm not sure how relevent this is to the study of rape. Alcohol and one-night stands don't rape people, rapists do. I believe that the implicit victim blaming in your post encourages rape culture by shaming victims into silence.

It's difficult to study rape, especially date rape because stigmas prevent many survivors from reporting it. Myths about "no means yes" and the irresistibly of women to heterosexual males ("boys will be boys") make it hard for many rape victims to acknowledge that they were raped. How rape is defined will determine how common it is. Let's examine the following circumstance:

Two people, Dan and Vicki, are be comfortable with one sexual activity. Dan "escalates" and attempts to do something that makes Vicki is uncomfortable. She expresses her discomfort, but is ignored. Dan tries again, but with a little more force this time. He is getting angry; he pressures Vicki into an unwanted sexual activity, and eventually she concedes. Do you think this is rape?

Vicki "consented" to the sex, but not because she wanted to. Rather, she was probably fearful of an angry man who was getting increasingly physical. She may have thought her safest option was to lie there and "get it over with." Vicki may have internalized victim blaming rhetoric, and thought that she couldn't be raped because she had already done another sexual activity with Dan. She would have teased him, and he would be unable to control his hormones. She may have thought that this type of sexual experience is normal, and assumed that she just needed to accept it if she wanted to attract men.

Rape is more than a random attack from an armed man in a dark alley. Often, it happens without great resistance, and some people take this to mean that it was "sex that she regrets." I cannot agree with this assessment.

That's not rape. Definitely not rape.

I'm going with the Miller Test here.

Charging for rape kits is one thing, but this? This is some ambulance-chasing lawyer shit.

It's definitely rape when someone "consents" to sex they do not want out of fear of violence. My subsequent examples are somewhat less transparent, but still describe unwanted sexual activity.

Sex with someone who doesn't want it is rape to me. Check out my link to the book, Yes Means Yes.

What does the Miller Test have to do with rape? I was unfamiliar with it, so I Wiki'd it and it was about free speech.

 

[Carmen813]

The most common assumption is that a man overpowers the woman in a dark alley and takes advantage of her. Research points to this almost never being the base, rapes typically involve perpetrators the victim was acquainted with. If alcohol/drugs are involved, it can be considered rape. If the woman is coerced or threatened, that is also rape. If the woman is fondled without permission, that is a type of sexual assault.

These situations apply to men as well.

Sexual Assault is a major problem on college campuses. The college I graduated from (State University of New York, College at Geneseo) is primarily female. The school refuses to perform rape kits on campus, they send the victims up to the nearest city (Rochester) which is 30 minutes away. Why is this done? Because Geneseo advertises itself as a safe place to send your daughters, and if the rape kit is done out of county it doesn't show up in the local paper. It's basically a small conspiracy, but the administration blatantly does it