Texas, once again, Trying to Cut Planned Parenthood off from Medicaid

[local]

Bully for you. I'm sure that's comforting to the rest that never are able to escape the clutches of intergenerational poverty or are forced to grow up in it due to losing the genetic lottery.

It has nothing to do with shielding people from their choices. It's about trying to create equality of opportunity, so those that have the will to succeed can actually succeed instead of tying an anchor around their legs and criticizing them for being unable to tread water or swim to shore.

I want people to succeed as well but I am not willing to just give them stuff and hope they take advantage of the opportunity. Show me you are willing to work hard to get out of your situation and I will be much more willing to give you a hand but you have to put forth the effort first. Popping out a kid when you know you cannot afford one is the opposite of trying to get out of your situation. There are a couple really successful ways to prevent kids from being created one of which is completely free, use them.

 

[sandorski]

I want people to succeed as well but I am not willing to just give them stuff and hope they take advantage of the opportunity. Show me you are willing to work hard to get out of your situation and I will be much more willing to give you a hand but you have to put forth the effort first. Popping out a kid when you know you cannot afford one is the opposite of trying to get out of your situation. There are a couple really successful ways to prevent kids from being created one of which is completely free, use them.

Yes yes yes, they all need to conform to your awesomeness.....

 

[theeedude]

I am done worrying about what Trump Trash states do.

 

[MrSquished]

I am done worrying about what Trump Trash states do.

Unfortunately we have a lot of fellow brothers and sisters in those states that will suffer under regressive rule so we need to care a bit.

 

[theeedude]

Unfortunately we have a lot of fellow brothers and sisters in those states that will suffer under regressive rule so we need to care a bit.

They will just have to turn out to vote and/or work to change minds of others in their states. It will have to come from the bottom up. If they don't care, I don't care.

 

[chowderhead]

They will just have to turn out to vote and/or work to change minds of others in their states. It will have to come from the bottom up. If they don't care, I don't care.

This is where I am at. Kansas continues to vote for the Republicans after massive cuts to education to give tax cuts to people like the Koch brothers. Fine. Texas wants more third world conditions for everyone except for the super rich. Fine. Keep not voting or voting Republicans. Enjoy your state.

 

[MrSquished]

This is where I am at. Kansas continues to vote for the Republicans after massive cuts to education to give tax cuts to people like the Koch brothers. Fine. Texas wants more third world conditions for everyone except for the super rich. Fine. Keep not voting or voting Republicans. Enjoy your state.

You gotta care. Even in Texas Clinton got 43% of the vote. That's a lot of people in the grand scheme of things. I'm not saying do not focus on improving your state, but we need to care about the fate of all Americans.

 

[poofyhairguy]

The idea that these people will serve as an example is kind of stupid anyway, as it's quite clear to see that these "examples" are not doing a very good job of dissuading other people from making similar mistakes.

The argument given is its meant to set an example, but in reality it is a desire for a form of frontier justice.

The same mentality drives the Texas opinion on the death penalty. No matter how many times I argue with a true Texan that the death penalty doesn't have a good track record for disincentivizing crime, or even the fact that it is more expensive than life in prison, the support for the practice never wavers. In their answer you can hear the desire for wild west-style justice, from the often said comment of "it shouldn't cost more, a rope/bullet is cheap" to the notion that despite the extra expense (or even the fact that innocents have been executed) the punishment is worth it because some crimes don't deserve the leniency of modern civilized society.

A true Texan will be more charitable to children than many in this thread will admit though. Many of the Medicaid Obamacare extensions that were actually allowed in the state via carve outs all involve children. Texas also has a "robin hood" system to subsidize poor school districts via rich ones, has a massive free lunch and breakfast program, and guarantees acceptance to any student to any public Texas university within the top 10% of their high school (a huge boost for those who come from less reputable high schools). I don't think Texas avoids caring for children when it can, as the children are sympathetic as in its easy to feel bad for them.

What is different in Texas is the outright scorn and disdain for the parents of said children, they are given nothing and trusted with nothing. Many of the benefits in Texas (like the free lunch program) exist as a way to not give welfare money directly to parents who will choose to spend it on drugs or booze. There are no GED advertisements promising the person who got pregnant young a better life for THEMSELVES, they are an untrustworthy deviant who must pay for their mistakes. This is where the Planned Parenthood part comes in- any notion of abortion or even subsidized women's care all focuses on what is best for the parent aka a person with no value or consideration in Texas. The times when children are hurt by this mentality are all accidental (though unfortunately often), the real target is the person who didn't do right by society and is lucky we still don't hang people from trees for the slightest transgression.

 

[poofyhairguy]

This is where I am at. Kansas continues to vote for the Republicans after massive cuts to education to give tax cuts to people like the Koch brothers. Fine. Texas wants more third world conditions for everyone except for the super rich. Fine. Keep not voting or voting Republicans. Enjoy your state.

The problem with that mentality is all the states compete with each other for capital and jobs, so if one state is willing to give away the farm metaphorically for just a little bit of "rah rah" jingoistic policy like in OP than other states with actual labor laws and standards will find that companies will want to gravitate away from them.

 

[ch33zw1z]

I'll jump on this logic train. Let Texas fuck it up, and they can be the example to other states of what not to do.

 

[local]

The argument given is its meant to set an example, but in reality it is a desire for a form of frontier justice.

The same mentality drives the Texas opinion on the death penalty. No matter how many times I argue with a true Texan that the death penalty doesn't have a good track record for disincentivizing crime, or even the fact that it is more expensive than life in prison, the support for the practice never wavers. In their answer you can hear the desire for wild west-style justice, from the often said comment of "it shouldn't cost more, a rope/bullet is cheap" to the notion that despite the extra expense (or even the fact that innocents have been executed) the punishment is worth it because some crimes don't deserve the leniency of modern civilized society.

A true Texan will be more charitable to children than many in this thread will admit though. Many of the Medicaid Obamacare extensions that were actually allowed in the state via carve outs all involve children. Texas also has a "robin hood" system to subsidize poor school districts via rich ones, has a massive free lunch and breakfast program, and guarantees acceptance to any student to any public Texas university within the top 10% of their high school (a huge boost for those who come from less reputable high schools). I don't think Texas avoids caring for children when it can, as the children are sympathetic as in its easy to feel bad for them.

What is different in Texas is the outright scorn and disdain for the parents of said children, they are given nothing and trusted with nothing. Many of the benefits in Texas (like the free lunch program) exist as a way to not give welfare money directly to parents who will choose to spend it on drugs or booze. There are no GED advertisements promising the person who got pregnant young a better life for THEMSELVES, they are an untrustworthy deviant who must pay for their mistakes. This is where the Planned Parenthood part comes in- any notion of abortion or even subsidized women's care all focuses on what is best for the parent aka a person with no value or consideration in Texas. The times when children are hurt by this mentality are all accidental (though unfortunately often), the real target is the person who didn't do right by society and is lucky we still don't hang people from trees for the slightest transgression.

This is all pretty much true.

 

[theeedude]

You gotta care. Even in Texas Clinton got 43% of the vote. That's a lot of people in the grand scheme of things. I'm not saying do not focus on improving your state, but we need to care about the fate of all Americans.

Most young people whom this will impact don't even bother voting. From my point of view, the best argument for them to turn out is having Republicans implement their agenda and screw them personally.

 

[Puffnstuff]

I think that its high time to raise health insurance rates on obese Christians who push their agenda on everyone but don't want to see their own flaws. And while we're at it put them on a strict calorie count diet to reduce their impact on the rest of society plus start charging them for two plane seats when their girth exceeds their allotted space infringing on other passengers. They love to point fingers at other people but don't want anyone pointing back at them.

 

[shortylickens]

isnt Texas the state that pushed that bullshit bill? The one saying clinics had to have 10 foot wide hallways and 225 watt bulbs EXACTLY in the janitors closet?

 

[Atreus21]

If anyone's interested. The 2017 decision by Judge Sam Sparks banning Texas from doing this has been overturned by the 5th Circuit today.

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/cou...ked-texas-ousting-planned-parenthood-medicaid

And just in passing, this decision specifically mentions that the Center for Medical Progress videos involved were found not to be deceptively edited.

The district court stated, inaccurately, that the CMP video had not been
authenticated and suggested that it may have been edited.6

6 In fact, the record reflects that OIG had submitted a report from a forensic firm
concluding that the video was authentic and not deceptively edited. And the plaintiffs did
not identify any particular omission or addition in the video footage.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

I wasn't looking to write a novel detailing every circumstance. In the case of rape obviously the woman did not choose for that to happen and thus should get assistance to remedy the situation. Preferably paid for by confiscation of the rapists assets but if they have no assets then I am fine with the state being involved.



And that kid grows up with the knowledge that any kid they have will be cared for by the state thus lowering their concern over the situation. Maybe if these kids grew up in complete poverty they would understand that having children before you are ready is a bad idea. I'm sure there are plenty of morons out there that wouldn't get the message though.

My grandparents on both sides of my family grew up very poor. My grandmother had to wear actual potato sacks to school. My father started working when he was 13 to help feed the family. Through hard work all of their children and grandchildren are much better off than they ever were. Maybe I am a bit biased due to my family actually pulling themselves up instead of sitting around holding out their hands.

When, in written history, did any society grow and flourish after consciously creating second class citizens? The idea that children should pay for the sins of their parents is flawed at the core.

 

[whm1974]

When, in written history, did any society grow and flourish after consciously creating second class citizens? The idea that children should pay for the sins of their parents is flawed at the core.

I will say none as it isn't a really good idea to have large numbers of second class citizens. Personally I think Birth Control should free or at least low cost for poor people starting at puberty.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

I will say none as it isn't a really good idea to have large numbers of second class citizens. Personally I think Birth Control should free or at least low cost for poor people starting at puberty.

I have no idea how the major malfunction of so many Texans that keeps them from thinking more than thirty seconds in to the future came about.
To clarify for the Texans out there, I'm talking about the law makers.

 

[local]

When, in written history, did any society grow and flourish after consciously creating second class citizens? The idea that children should pay for the sins of their parents is flawed at the core.

Rome I suppose would fit that definition but I can't think of any other really successful ones.

Children will always pay for anything involving their parents from their home life and education to the color of their skin and in what part of the world they are born. Shielding children from shitty life lessons is not creating a better generation, it is creating people that cannot deal with problems and haven't learned the lessons taught by them.

I will say none as it isn't a really good idea to have large numbers of second class citizens. Personally I think Birth Control should free or at least low cost for poor people starting at puberty.

I agree on both parts. If the intelligent and educated people won't breed enough to offset the masses of deplorables and idiots then they should provide any and all means necessary to limit their reproduction for free.
/s

But seriously, when did birth control get expensive? If people can't afford a condom maybe they should be worrying more about not being able to scrounge up some loose change. But that is a moot point, too many wouldn't use them if you gave them away on every street corner.

I have no idea how the major malfunction of so many Texans that keeps them from thinking more than thirty seconds in to the future came about.
To clarify for the Texans out there, I'm talking about the law makers.

Hey now, obviously the idiots in Austin are doing something right. The ridiculous number of people moving here aren't coming for the conservative fundamentalism.

 

[TheVrolok]

Another step backwards for Texas, unfortunately.

 

[brycejones]

Another step backwards for Texas, unfortunately.

Another shitty decision out of the 5th. It’s a really conservative appeals bench.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

I will say none as it isn't a really good idea to have large numbers of second class citizens. Personally I think Birth Control should free or at least low cost for poor people starting at puberty.

Not going to disagree - but isn't it well... basically... free these days?

After the ACA it's seen as preventative medication (IIRC). Thus, anyone with health insurance can pick it up at a pharmacy for $0 copay.

So the next obvious counter-point to that is the poor having health insurance. The fact is that in the low income brackets (< $35k) nearly the entire amount of the health care premiums are subsidized in the ACA. So.... little to no excuse at this point, no? It's basically free now.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Also, from what I was reading in this article don't be too gloom about it. While the upper court struck it down, they basically handed it back to the lower court as if to say "Find another reason to deny it". So don't be too gloomy.

A three-judge panel on the U.S. 5th Circuit Court of Appeals ruled Thursday that Sam Sparks, the federal district judge who preserved Planned Parenthood’s status in the program in February 2017, had used the wrong standard in his ruling. The appeals court sent the case back to him for further consideration.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

Rome I suppose would fit that definition but I can't think of any other really successful ones.

Children will always pay for anything involving their parents from their home life and education to the color of their skin and in what part of the world they are born. Shielding children from shitty life lessons is not creating a better generation, it is creating people that cannot deal with problems and haven't learned the lessons taught by them.



I agree on both parts. If the intelligent and educated people won't breed enough to offset the masses of deplorables and idiots then they should provide any and all means necessary to limit their reproduction for free.
/s

But seriously, when did birth control get expensive? If people can't afford a condom maybe they should be worrying more about not being able to scrounge up some loose change. But that is a moot point, too many wouldn't use them if you gave them away on every street corner.



Hey now, obviously the idiots in Austin are doing something right. The ridiculous number of people moving here aren't coming for the conservative fundamentalism.

Rome hardly flourished. Certainly not after their "Texans" voted for bread and circuses. Learning life's "shitty" lessons happens just by living. Having an asshole Texan decide who and when doesn't fall anywhere in the constitution that I know about. Particularly, when the vast majority have a darker skin than you. Institutionalized racism is hardly something to be proud of.
As for Austin, people follow the money as they've always done. Maybe they can follow the likes of Phoenix and become the second largest gated community in North America. Oh wait, that pesky "open border" pretty much insures your second class status. The only one shielding children from reality is the Texas educational system. That's why so many never leave Texas, they get laughed at when they do.

 

[Jhhnn]

Not going to disagree - but isn't it well... basically... free these days?

After the ACA it's seen as preventative medication (IIRC). Thus, anyone with health insurance can pick it up at a pharmacy for $0 copay.

So the next obvious counter-point to that is the poor having health insurance. The fact is that in the low income brackets (< $35k) nearly the entire amount of the health care premiums are subsidized in the ACA. So.... little to no excuse at this point, no? It's basically free now.

So what? Your entire argument has nothing to do with the so-called reasons that Texas wants to deny PP the federal funds they merely administer.