Texas Ebola patient dies

[squarecut1]

I bet the current nurses at the Texas Hospital are not stepping forwarded to treat anymore Ebola patients.

Unfortunately, they would not have the choice :-(

Family of Thomas Duncan is blaming the hospital....

Yea, fuck you too. Good luck finding a jury to give you money.

So the greedy bastards are now looking to cash in the death of their guy? Why I am not surprised.

 

[Jaskalas]

Unfortunately, they would not have the choice :-(

Not for employment, but they always have a choice.

 

[PokerGuy]

The fact that at least three people who were well aware of the danger of ebola, wearing protective gear in a modern hospital with all precautions and being careful still got infected tells you this stuff is not as hard to transmit from one person to another as the cdc and other talking heads would have us believe. It's long past time to stop all travel from anyone who's been in western africa to the us, at least until things appear to be under control, and it's darn sure time to stop treating this like a minor inconvenience instead of the real threat it is.

 

[squarecut1]

Not for employment, but they always have a choice.

People would like to keep a roof over their head and feed their family. Most people live paycheck to paycheck. And it is not as if nurses are in such short supply that they can just walk to any other place and get a job. So I think, no, they don't have much of a choice.

 

[Screech]

While there are good arguments for not stopping *all* travel, we should at least
1) ensure anyone coming from that part of the word does so under quarantine for the travel and stays under quarantine for a month or more once they get here
2) ensure that anyone who comes into any kind of contact (nurse treating an ebola patient for example) with someone who potentially has ebola a) does not treat other people and b) does not go jump on a plane after treating someone with ebola. I mean holy shit, surely that is obvious, right?

 

[waggy]

didn't the CDC say no way it comes to the States. then they said nobody will get it in the US. then they say no medical people will get it.

now you hear people with exposure to it flying in commercial jets.

seems that them trying to downplay it may kill some people.

 

[PokerGuy]

Unfortunately, they would not have the choice :-(

At this point, without really knowing how the others got infected even though they were protected etc, I would rather quit than risk my life. A paycheck is simply not worth that risk. I'd leave and find another position elsewhere.

So the greedy bastards are now looking to cash in the death of their guy? Why I am not surprised.

Yep, first they threw out the race card, claiming he wasn't treated the same as white victims, and now follows the inevitable money grab.

 

[bshole]

didn't the CDC say no way it comes to the States. then they said nobody will get it in the US. then they say no medical people will get it.

now you hear people with exposure to it flying in commercial jets.

seems that them trying to downplay it may kill some people.

Yes they have been absolutely wrong every step of the way. Good christ I wonder if they are even doctors. I put in an order to sell ALL of my stock this morning (about a million dollars) after I heard about the 2nd nurse. A pandemic will take the market right back to 2008 levels or lower.

 

[Jaskalas]

While there are good arguments for not stopping *all* travel, we should at least
1) ensure anyone coming from that part of the word does so under quarantine for the travel and stays under quarantine for a month or more once they get here
2) ensure that anyone who comes into any kind of contact (nurse treating an ebola patient for example) with someone who potentially has ebola a) does not treat other people and b) does not go jump on a plane after treating someone with ebola. I mean holy shit, surely that is obvious, right?

Those 2 measures would go a long way towards addressing it.

 

[Brainonska511]

Yes they have been absolutely wrong every step of the way. Good christ I wonder if they are even doctors. I put in an order to sell ALL of my stock this morning (about a million dollars) after I heard about the 2nd nurse. A pandemic will take the market right back to 2008 levels or lower.

That doesn't sound irrational at all.

 

[fskimospy]

Yes they have been absolutely wrong every step of the way. Good christ I wonder if they are even doctors. I put in an order to sell ALL of my stock this morning (about a million dollars) after I heard about the 2nd nurse. A pandemic will take the market right back to 2008 levels or lower.

Quoted for posterity.

 

[werepossum]

I think the #1 problem is that we don't know what the problem is.

We've had studies by doctors, like the AMA and New England Journal of Medicine identifying why our costs are so high yet no one pays it any attention. Those reasons never entered the political debate AFAIK. If you don't correctly identify the problem(s) you can't fix it/them. (Reminds me of my sig.)

We often hear of other countries' HC system, yet I've seen no real discussion of why their system is capable of providing HC for less. Hint: it isn't about whose name is listed as payer on the check (i.e., "single payer").

Now, it may be that some yelling "single payer" know the 'score', but don't want to discuss it for fear of people freaking out etc and rejecting it. A real "single payer" system comes with a bunch of substantial changes that I bet people won't accept and couldn't be implemented with out great upheaval to our HC system and economy even if they would.

Fern

I think people may accept it if it means somebody else pays all the costs. We're rapidly losing the ability and inclination to stand on our own two feet, and I think worse care without ant non-hidden costs would appeal to a lot of people.

You're alluding to one of the 'ugly secrets' of single payer, no?

If we go single payer price fixing, along with other elements of single payer likely to be hugely unpopular among many people, will have to be implemented. I predict a shortage of HC providers as they flood out of the profession or are forced out due to bankruptcy. This will likely also result in a bailout: the govt's go-to solution when they screw something up big time.

Fern

A temporary shortage followed by a general lowering of quality. Right now many of our best and brightest go into medicine, although that's changing as doctors more and more are advising their children and grandchildren not to go into medicine. The absolute worst case would be we keep our ability to sue but go to single payer, so that doctors stand to top out at a hundred grand or so but the lawyers stand to make millions suing them. But government can always find warm bodies to be doctors by relaxing requirements for foreign doctors to come here and practice, by subsidizing college and medical school costs, and by mandating lower standards. That's what happened in the UK, where they not only have a shortage of doctors but have comparatively few native-born doctors.

Lol. Look at the percentage of GDP spent on health care and the outcomes. Then come back and argue against efficiency some more.

Conservatives are only against waste in government if it's spent on things they don't like. They are totally fine with ideologically compatible waste. Makes you wonder which part of the equation they are actually against, eh?

If you think our higher costs are purely inefficiency due to not being government-run then obviously thinking is not your strong point. We also have more and better doctors, far more specialists, more and generally much better diagnostic equipment, much more access to specialists and advanced diagnostic equipment, and much more drug research and development.

 

[Brovane]

Yep, first they threw out the race card, claiming he wasn't treated the same as white victims, and now follows the inevitable money grab.

I have a feeling that with the early identification of Ebola in the Health Care workers and apparently they are being moved to a specialized Hospital that both care workers could survive. Once this happens the race card is going to be played even hardware.

 

[fskimospy]

If you think our higher costs are purely inefficiency due to not being government-run then obviously thinking is not your strong point. We also have more and better doctors, far more specialists, more and generally much better diagnostic equipment, much more access to specialists and advanced diagnostic equipment, and much more drug research and development.

They aren't purely inefficiency, but before impugning someone else's thought process I would strongly suggest learning more about health care economics.

So you mention all these wonderful advantages the US has yet our health outcomes aren't any better. With that in mind, let's discuss efficiency some more?

 

[HomerJS]

I have a feeling that with the early identification of Ebola in the Health Care workers and apparently they are being moved to a specialized Hospital that both care workers could survive. Once this happens the race card is going to be played even hardware.

Pointing out Duncan not moved to a specialized hospital and the health care workers moved there is playing the fact card.

 

[werepossum]

The sky is not falling

We're definitely going to have an epidemic - of people afraid they have Ebolla.

That's easy to think when you see charts like this:

but no one who posts that ever posts this chart:

So if dollars spent correlates with research produced, we could cut our research in half and still hold first place with a healthy margin.

That's certainly a good point, but to understand the true affect we'd have to know what research was being cut, the "me too" clones which go after a piece of an existing lucrative market or the unique and/or better treatments.

Isn't that like saying house door locks are idiotic because there are multiple entrances a thief can break into your house? At least the locks make it more difficult...

Exactly. The ludicrousness of claiming that travel bans are nonsense because they make it harder for us to get to Africa to treat people who have Ebolla is amazing since it has to be predicated on treating and/or quarantining every African with the disease.

 

[bshole]

That doesn't sound irrational at all.

Extremely rational. I guess you weren't around for the market crashes on 911 or the housing crash. It is an educated guess on my part. The market is already near historic highs. The downside for me is minimal and the upside could be huge.

 

[HomerJS]

Where the hell has the great Rick Perry been during all this? Doesn't states rights dictate he be in charge of this??

Rail against the federal government until you need them.

 

[Brovane]

2) ensure that anyone who comes into any kind of contact (nurse treating an ebola patient for example) with someone who potentially has ebola a) does not treat other people and b) does not go jump on a plane after treating someone with ebola. I mean holy shit, surely that is obvious, right?

Aparently a possible lapse was when Duncan was first admitted that full protocols where not put in place during admitting. Some rumors are swirling that the Hospital left him in ER hallway for several hours before quaranting him. One nurse that is sick treated him from the start in the ER. The most likely hood of spreading a virus like Ebola is during admitting. It looks like the Hospital was completely un-prepared for what occured when he was first admitted. They knew that when he came in for a second time that he had a high likelyhood of Ebola. He should have gone right from the ambulance to quarantine. Not sit in the ER for hours while they do the typical hospital "we need to find a room".

 

[Brovane]

Where the hell has the great Rick Perry been during all this? Doesn't states rights dictate he be in charge of this??

Rail against the federal government until you need them.

He is probably more concerned about Gay Marriage and the recent court rulings.

 

[werepossum]

They aren't purely inefficiency, but before impugning someone else's thought process I would strongly suggest learning more about health care economics.

So you mention all these wonderful advantages the US has yet our health outcomes aren't any better. With that in mind, let's discuss efficiency some more?

On SOME ailments our outcomes aren't any better; on others they are. And let's not forget that we're dealing with Americans - we are fatter, more violent (or at least better armed), and drive much more and much faster than our first world counterparts.

There's a reason why so many Canadians travel south for medical care - American care is better and more readily available, enough so that many Canadians are willing to pay out the nose for something they nominally receive for free.

 

[FerrelGeek]

Yes they have been absolutely wrong every step of the way. Good christ I wonder if they are even doctors. I put in an order to sell ALL of my stock this morning (about a million dollars) after I heard about the 2nd nurse. A pandemic will take the market right back to 2008 levels or lower.

Um, $1M???? Really???? You're gonna pay out the a** in capital gains. And don't you hate rich people? Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.

 

[squarecut1]

Pointing out Duncan not moved to a specialized hospital and the health care workers moved there is playing the fact card.

Also there is this fact of Mr Duncan lying about not being in contact with anyone with Ebola.

Still, with the way things are around here, I won't be too surprised if some jury decides to hand them free cash. Gotta love the legal system.

 

[bshole]

Um, $1M???? Really???? You're gonna pay out the a** in capital gains. And don't you hate rich people? Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.

Those are ALL retirement funds. My 401Ks and ROTH IRAs. No taxes at all. I have loads of untouchable money and absolutely no touchable money.... go figure.

Seriously you would be a fool not to follow my lead. We are on the cusp of a MAJOR correction.

 

[Pens1566]

Dr. Gupta does a great illustration of the problem of getting the protective clothing off in this video using CDC protocol.

http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/he...-sot-gupta-ebola-hazardous-material-suits.cnn

They're not in full hazmat suits. Well that explains everything.

The WHO protocol that Dr.'s Without Borders follows is more stringent than what the CDC suggests. It's a problem.