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Testing Audiophile Claims and Myths

yhelothar said:
It has never been a surprise to me that the cables were bunk, but apparently so are the amps.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/486598/testing-audiophile-claims-and-myths

http://eandt.theiet.org/magazine/2011/11/believe-in-better.cfm

http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2013/02/high-bitrate-mp3-internet-blind-test_3422.html
Click to expand...

I reached happy medium after picking up an HD-650 & Headamp combo. Can I hear the differences in sound quality? Absolutely. Do I care? No. I never heard pops or hisses or static in my MP3's on my cheaper equipment like my HD-280's, I never had to bother with getting CD's or lossless files or DVD-Audio or SACD's. I'd rather just stream MOG all day and enjoy the music. So I downgraded and I've been happy ever since.

I listened to a pair of Focal Grande Utopia's ($$$) at one of the high-end audio stores in-state one time. Other than obviously sounding good and filling the room well due to the size of the speakers, they didn't sound much different than the $150 Parts Express kit I built. To me, you can't get much better quality than the original recording from the microphone, so does it really matter after you get to the "it sounds pretty accurate" level of speakers? I can appreciate being an audiophile, but there is definitely a lot of snakeoil in the business. But hey, everyone needs a hobby - I like to overclock & mod my computers, which is fairly pointless because all I do is surf the net on them, but it makes me happy, so more power to them 🙂
 
That's not true, amps do make a difference, but it uniquely depends on what kind of wattage you are playing with. At 50W, you'd be hard pressed to hear differences. At 500W, a shitty amp will sound 10x worse than a good one.

Of course DACs and cabling are almost entirely irrelevant, while crossovers and of course transducers remain the most significant part of an audio chain.
 
The human ear can not tell the difference between a sound that updated over 60 times a second..

oh wait that's what ignorant people say about eye sight, not hearing 😛
 
Kaido said:
I reached happy medium after picking up an HD-650 & Headamp combo. Can I hear the differences in sound quality? Absolutely. Do I care? No. I never heard pops or hisses or static in my MP3's on my cheaper equipment like my HD-280's, I never had to bother with getting CD's or lossless files or DVD-Audio or SACD's. I'd rather just stream MOG all day and enjoy the music. So I downgraded and I've been happy ever since.

I listened to a pair of Focal Grande Utopia's ($$$) at one of the high-end audio stores in-state one time. Other than obviously sounding good and filling the room well due to the size of the speakers, they didn't sound much different than the $150 Parts Express kit I built. To me, you can't get much better quality than the original recording from the microphone, so does it really matter after you get to the "it sounds pretty accurate" level of speakers? I can appreciate being an audiophile, but there is definitely a lot of snakeoil in the business. But hey, everyone needs a hobby - I like to overclock & mod my computers, which is fairly pointless because all I do is surf the net on them, but it makes me happy, so more power to them 🙂
Click to expand...


I'm sure having an amp to drive high impedance headphones when your source isn't powerful enough can make a huge difference. But the test that was done was comparing a standard electronics store pioneer amp with a super expensive audiophile one. That test failed the blind test.
 
JAG87 said:
That's not true, amps do make a difference, but it uniquely depends on what kind of wattage you are playing with. At 50W, you'd be hard pressed to hear differences. At 500W, a shitty amp will sound 10x worse than a good one.

Of course DACs and cabling are almost entirely irrelevant, while crossovers and of course transducers remain the most significant part of an audio chain.
Click to expand...

500W? Are you talking about ghetto sound boom boxes, not audiophile amps....A good audiophile amp of 10W can blow your ears away....
 
Gintaras said:
500W? Are you talking about ghetto sound boom boxes, not audiophile amps....A good audiophile amp of 10W can blow your ears away....
Click to expand...

thats only partially true, even said amp hooked up to an inefficient set of speakers isn't going to do much ear blowing before it runs out of room
 
yhelothar said:
It has never been a surprise to me that the cables were bunk, but apparently so are the amps.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/486598/testing-audiophile-claims-and-myths

http://eandt.theiet.org/magazine/2011/11/believe-in-better.cfm

http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2013/02/high-bitrate-mp3-internet-blind-test_3422.html
Click to expand...

What's wrong with OP in 1st place?

There are no Audiophile Standart Sound...
A lot of people like Music Sound different - some like more bass, some like more mid frequencies, some like moe highs...

Everyones ears are different as are tastes of music as are music sounds....

To believe some graphs - you must be either stupid or deaf....

No Music Recording will sound the same - doesn't matter for some...or for all?

Some sound good, some do sound terrible - no cables, amps or other Stereo Equipments fault - but Production of this very album...

I did like Def Leppard first couple albums...but, I can't listen to these anymore, because of very POOR album Production....

Try to play on very same equipment different albums, let's say: some jazz or classical music and try to play on the very same equipment, let's say: hard rock...

Will it sound the same?

Maybe OP would like to start a tread, where people could share their Sound experiences for some certain albums?

Ever been in a concert?
Where are musicians locates on a stage? A drummer in a back, a bass guitarist and lead/rhythm guitarists on the sides, a singer - in the front - that's why, a vocalist is called a frontman...

In audiophile, it's called a soundstage - when you hear instruments/singers how they're positioned...

Do you hear that?

Such OP can be discussed again and again - people do different eqipment, like different music, like music sound their different way...etc...

Don't post again any computer generated graphs - it's stupid, because people's ears, their liking of sound, their liking of music style isn't computer generated...as people themselves...
 
Gintaras said:
What's wrong with OP in 1st place?

There are no Audiophile Standart Sound...
A lot of people like Music Sound different - some like more bass, some like more mid frequencies, some like moe highs...
Everyones ears are different as are tastes of music as are music sounds....
Click to expand...
Absolutely. That's the first thing I noticed when trying out various audiophile grade earphones. I expected to be some kind of "reference" sound, but each brand sounded vastly different and had their own sound signature. But the vast majority of those differences are in the speakers/headphones themselves and not in the minute little gimmicky things audiophiles spend ridiculous amounts of money on like cables/power filters, etc. That's what this thread is about.

Maybe OP would like to start a tread, where people could share their Sound experiences for some certain albums?
Click to expand...
That sounds interesting. Personally, that's actually what drives me to the hi-fi world. A good example of music I listen as "sound experience" is shpongle and infected mushroom. They make all these exotic sounds that whiz around your head. It's an amazing experience. 🙂

Don't post again any computer generated graphs - it's stupid, because people's ears, their liking of sound, their liking of music style isn't computer generated...as people themselves...
Click to expand...
When you say this, it's obvious that you didn't actually read any of the links since none of them have to do with computer generated graphs and have to do with double blind ABX comparison studies to see if large samples of people can tell the difference between two sets of equipment. Don't be stupid and post stupid made up crap before reading the OP. D:
 
yhelothar said:
That sounds interesting. Personally, that's actually what drives me to the hi-fi world. A good example of music I listen as "sound experience" is shpongle and infected mushroom. They make all these exotic sounds that whiz around your head. It's an amazing experience. 🙂

. D:
Click to expand...

Why did I start listerning to Jazz, not mainstrean jazz, but jazz vocals, pop jazz...

Sound...

After I bought my entry level HiFiMan 601 and HifiMan RE-262 earphones, I got in totally different World of Music and Music Sounds...

I have several Audiophile Reference albums - Marantz, B&W, Audiophile Female Jazz Vocals...etc...

I got into music, I've never been before...And some of, I want to get on vinyl...

Steve Wonder - Songs In The Key Of Life....FLACs sounds soooo good...I do want it on vinyl too...
 
Amps do make a difference in the high end, no need to go further than the Ascend/Salk shootout where they managed to drive a 300W/channel amp into clipping during normal listening levels because the Salk Soundscape 10 goes down into 2-3 ohms in the audible range.
 
yhelothar said:
I'm sure having an amp to drive high impedance headphones when your source isn't powerful enough can make a huge difference. But the test that was done was comparing a standard electronics store pioneer amp with a super expensive audiophile one. That test failed the blind test.
Click to expand...

Yeah. To me, you can never really get much better than the original recording from the microphone, so spending zillions on equipment is kind of silly for me personally. You can equalize it, you can add warmth, etc. but meh. I just like to have a good quality sound and enjoy it. Heck, I cannibalized my Logitech Z-5500 speakers when the sub-amp died and I'm using them with a Pioneer receiver right now with great results :awe:
 
Astrallite said:
Amps do make a difference in the high end, no need to go further than the Ascend/Salk shootout where they managed to drive a 300W/channel amp into clipping during normal listening levels because the Salk Soundscape 10 goes down into 2-3 ohms in the audible range.
Click to expand...

what amp were they using? i know the SS10s are not that sensitive but i would have thought 300 would be enough
 
It's the same as with computer equipment, once you go above midrange/high midrange, you'll have to pay a ton of money to get a slightly bit better sound. The good thing is that sound equipment last longer than pc parts. I've spend around $2.5K on my sound setup and I definitely think it's worth it.
 
Gintaras said:
500W? Are you talking about ghetto sound boom boxes, not audiophile amps....A good audiophile amp of 10W can blow your ears away....
Click to expand...

I guess you've never been at a concert.

With 10W, the performers on stage wouldn't hear anything, never mind the crowd
 
JAG87 said:
I guess you've never been at a concert.

With 10W, the performers on stage wouldn't hear anything, never mind the crowd
Click to expand...

There is also a huge difference between 10 watts in your livingroom and 10 watts in a stadium filled with 15,000 screaming people in it.
 
JAG87 said:
That's not true, amps do make a difference, but it uniquely depends on what kind of wattage you are playing with. At 50W, you'd be hard pressed to hear differences. At 500W, a shitty amp will sound 10x worse than a good one.

Of course DACs and cabling are almost entirely irrelevant, while crossovers and of course transducers remain the most significant part of an audio chain.
Click to expand...

I get the point, but who here has a 500 watt amp, or even needs one?

Usually, the point of buying a higher powered amp isn't because you NEED that much power, it's so you have the headroom and can hit higher peaks. Nobody listens to even 200 watts of power, steadily.

I have 5x250 watts, and I'd about guarantee that nobody could stand to stay in the room with my system for long at a steady 100 watts, which isn't even making my amps break a sweat. It's clear as a bell. But at that level, there certainly may be times when it spikes up to 200 watts, which would be clipping on a weaker amp.
 
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Astrallite said:
Amps do make a difference in the high end, no need to go further than the Ascend/Salk shootout where they managed to drive a 300W/channel amp into clipping during normal listening levels because the Salk Soundscape 10 goes down into 2-3 ohms in the audible range.
Click to expand...
The high end, where speakers are designed poorly?
 
In 2013 Audio Show in NYC I saw high end audiophile amp that had max 8W per channel...

And if you want True Stereo, you need 2 mono amps...

And I want:

91zgPIi7a6L._SL1500_.jpg
 
I can understand people arguing over cables. I can hear some difference between them but it's so subtle I will not pay more than a three figure sum for one.

I beg to differ with amps however as there are almost always differences. Some are warm-sounding (or cold-sounding), some are very dynamic (or lethargic), some are very nimble in bass (or thumpy), some are very refined (or brash/bold), etc. It gets more obvious if an amp is under powered for the speakers it is driving (distortions). Wattage does not directly determine quality either as, for example, anyone who replaced their shitty old HTiB amp with a 5W T-amp will likely experience.
 
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