Info [Tested] Framework: full modular user repairable/upgradable laptop [update: now mit ryzen]

[gorobei]

finally a counter response to the apple/dell/hp/lenovo soldered bga bs.

Introducing the Framework Desktop and newest Framework Laptop 13

Choose between our latest Framework Laptop 13 powered by Ryzen™ AI 300 Series processors or our brand new Framework Desktop with Ryzen™ AI Max Series processors.

frame.work

they will even sell the motherboards as new cpus gens come out.

if they make a 2in1 convertable with ryzen apu with pen support i will snap buy 2, if has a wacom emr pen i will buy 3.

 

[pcgeek11]

That is really cool!

 

[gorobei]

full-ish teardown

interior layout and ribbon cables seems friendly enough.

 

[gorobei]

Linus filmed the video without knowing anything beforehand and was so impressed that he ordered one for himself at the end of the video. the frame.work website went down from all the traffic if the YT comments are to be believed.

he covers some additional details on quality of life improvements inside, lists some of the established name component makers, and some of the bios options. lowish res display and no touchscreen option is the only downside, but according to Linus the mb supports it.

the cpu is soldered, but the premise is you just buy a new board to upgrade and sell the old mb/cpu on the framework trading market so other customers can get 2nd hand discount.

i went to the site, it starts around $750 for the i5 1135g7 bare kit. with wifi module and ram it was ~$860. i can source a discount win10pro key and a nvme m.2 drive for less than their prices but at least they let you know the exact model numbers for each part if you want to source your own. assuming you get all the i/o port modules and charger as part of the kit, i cant see any reason you would bother with the apple/dell/hp/etc models.

 

[Thunder 57]

Linus filmed the video without knowing anything beforehand and was so impressed that he ordered one for himself at the end of the video. the frame.work website went down from all the traffic if the YT comments are to be believed.

he covers some additional details on quality of life improvements inside, lists some of the established name component makers, and some of the bios options. lowish res display and no touchscreen option is the only downside, but according to Linus the mb supports it.

the cpu is soldered, but the premise is you just buy a new board to upgrade and sell the old mb/cpu on the framework trading market so other customers can get 2nd hand discount.

i went to the site, it starts around $750 for the i5 1135g7 bare kit. with wifi module and ram it was ~$860. i can source a discount win10pro key and a nvme m.2 drive for less than their prices but at least they let you know the exact model numbers for each part if you want to source your own. assuming you get all the i/o port modules and charger as part of the kit, i cant see any reason you would bother with the apple/dell/hp/etc models.

Just watched the video. This looks awesome, almost like an April Fools joke with the modular motherboard awhile back. I hope they succeed and we see new generations with more screen size/resolution options and of course AMD options. There seems to be a real demand for this type of device, or if not someone certainly created the illusion that there is.

 

[Commodus]

Laptops like this will probably remain niche, but I hope it's a successful niche. Framework seems to have carefully considered so much with this design, including the realization that the system still has to compete on quality and performance. So many of these repairability-focused companies (ahem, Fairphone) make so many compromises that their products are tough sells to anyone other than die-hards.

 

[gorobei]

ifixit review and teardown. 10 out of 10 (shocker)

https://www.ifixit.com/News/51614/framework-laptop-teardown-10-10-but-is-it-perfect

their only concern is the small battery(low W-hours) but as long as it is easily replaceable(4 screws) then they are fine with it.

one of the gawker sites had a short review. they had high heat problems and loud fan accompanying the temps. tho they didnt seem to bother trying to tune it in the bios.

 

[Spikke]

I wonder how hard it would be to have socket based CPU and GPU for upgradeability.

 

[Commodus]

I wonder how hard it would be to have socket based CPU and GPU for upgradeability.

Very. Assume it'll never happen.

As LTT pointed out, companies like Intel just don't sell socketed laptop chips. GPUs have sometimes been available as modules, but there aren't many laptops with those module slots. You certainly won't find socketable chips.

In both cases, there's one important thing to remember: the constraints of laptops make socketed chips difficult, and often impractical. Your laptop chassis might handle one CPU well, but overheat with another; a GPU upgrade could tank your battery life. And it's not like you can simply buy a cooling upgrade, as the fans and heatsinks are often custom to a given machine.

 

[gorobei]

Linus invested $224,000 of his own money for some shares in the framework company. he will more or less recuse himself from all future laptop reviews on the LTT channels.

Framework sent a review model to LouisRossman. he did the kit assemble and came away impressed. (only issue being the rocker keys on the up/down arrows and the maybe the enter/backslash.)

the ryzen version cant come soon enough, though who knows how much zen4/ddr5/pcie4 will affect cooling and power issues if it isnt monolithic.

 

[gorobei]

somebody took the framework motherboard and built a 60% keyboard around it. a modern day commodore 64.

the framework marketplace website went up a few weeks ago, but not much inventory aside from some spare parts from framework themselves.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

These things always seem like good ideas that just never pan out.

There needs to be a standard in place for this kind of thing (like ATX) otherwise it just sort of ends up a goofy gimmick where you're just buying the laptop from Dell one piece at a time for more money.

Desktop PCs are kinda freaks of nature that refuse to die at this point,just a lot of inertia going there and plenty of big manufacturers have tried to enforce their weird proprietary standards in the space.

This is one place where I think "Green" right to repair legislation could have a huge impact. Treating laptops and cell phones as disposable hardware with forced obscelecense is both anti-consumer and hugely toxic to the environment.

Forcing everyone to adopt a standard might "reduce options" for ultra thin designs but increase options and the usable life elsewhere for consumers.

 

[gorobei]

to some degree this is standardization. framework went to the component suppliers (mem, ssd, wifi, etc) and theoretically asked for the part form factor/spec that they would theoretically support the longest. so those suppliers can expect drop in part sales separate from the big oems. it is the beholdeness to those large contract orders to big names to fill their sales that keeps the part suppliers from dictating a standard that anyone can build to. though barebones laptops havent been a thing for a decade or two.

when it comes to laptops for the thin and light segment, soldered parts and glue is the enemy. non replaceable cpu/ram/batteries are what you get when buyers fall for the idiotic marketing prioritizing thinness.

framework has released the spec files for the body and ports so 3rd party accessories are already being developed. if customization is the selling point then all we need is a 3rd party clear acrylic laptop case with argb to lure all the kids wanting bling in their system.

 

[gorobei]

Linus' update on his framework situation, upgrade to 12000 series, and some other bits on long term wear/replacement.

the actual upgrade is a little cringe as he didnt bother to read the instructions. but the details about how framework's business policies function are neat. still no word on ryzen.
committing to a single chassis design pays off from an ewaste standpoint. how many systems get tossed because of a issue with a single part (hinge, trackpad, etc).

 

[gorobei]

pcworld's Gordon doing the cpu upgrade.
close up camera, 20 minutes no edits, so it's as close as you are going to get to the actual end user experience. (lol he gets stung by the bitlocker security)

benchmarks at 27min.

god those connectors are tiny.

 

[gorobei]

framework adds 16" version, 13" gets ryzen option.

Framework Previews 16-inch Laptop With Upgradeable Graphics, Adds Ryzen Mainboards

New Intel and AMD laptops will get new hinges and battery options, too.

www.tomshardware.com

ryzen 7040 series chip, mainboard will fit in the previous intel models so you can upgrade.

16" gets expansion bay and gpu cooling options. also allows hotswap modular configurable keyboards, keypads, and touchpad options.

some linux options and coolermaster is making a case for the mainboard.

edit:
pcworld at introduction event. they are going all out in being able to customize the kb kp tp. dedicated gpu and case to turn it into an external gpu when you upgrade gpu. 6 modular i/o ports.

linus got a little more access probably due to his investment. that is a lot of bling on the customizable keyboard area.

 

[gorobei]

1st gen frameworks with intel boards have a clock battery issue. they wont fix it, but provide the instructions on how to wire mod it. it was fixed in the next gen of intel cpu/mb.

 

[sciencewhiz]

Has anyone bought one?

 

[gorobei]

linus gets to install a engineering board AMD upgrade into his framework13, shows off the coolermaster case for old framework mainboards.

with it being the same latest gen 74x0 amd apu as the z1 going into the handhelds, it would be interesting to see how many diy handhelds using frankenstein'd console controller parts could come out of this.

 

[gorobei]

the verge got a hands on with the framework 16". tons of pics of what is inside.

Framework Laptop 16: our exclusive hands-on

We upgraded a laptop GPU with a snap — and six screws.

www.theverge.com

they did some real planning with the dedicated gpu bay.

bad news is the price. $1400 for the barebones diy version. another $400 for the gpu.

verge video

edit: added video, price for gpu corrected(not 1400). [but there is a premium higher end cpu option and other accessories that can push the price that much higher.]

 

[GodisanAtheist]

Yeah on one hand really really cool, but on the other hand unless it becomes a standard/platform like ATX with a marketplace of competing manufacturers and such it's just too damn expensive.

 

[gorobei]

benchmarks of each gen of framework cpus.

the 7840u just trounces the older intel parts in almost everything except some single threaded stuff. the rdna3 graphics on un-updated drivers is ~2x the intel gpu, but both with struggle with AAA game high quality. the amd is much better on cooling fan cycling. still seems to suffer from idle power usage and you will want/need a 100w charger to avoid issues when charging the battery while working.

about the only thing you lose is some versatility in the adapter ports configuration.

 

[gorobei]

LTT review of Framework16

ifixit teardown

some rough bits in the linus review: fit and finish on the configurable kb/trackpad will bug the ocd and the flex in the kb while easily diy fixable should never have gotten out the door. upside is that the apu performance is punching above its weight. the temps are amazing. price is a friction point.

on the podcast they went over the reviews and other sites got pre-production versions leading to a ton of flaws and bugs.

 

[gorobei]

Framework offering a riscV option. board manufactured by deepcomputing with chip from siFive design. they are opensourcing the mainboard design. should make the linux crowd happy.

 

[gorobei]

dual m.2 ssd module for framework 16 expansion bay available.

while the expandability is nice, given the thinness of the available space im not sure how many actually useful components you could stick in there. if you take out the fans maybe a giant battery to extend the W-hrs, but you would probably have to remove the module when you take a flight.