Tesla Semi and Roadster 2 (1.9 0-60) event

[tynopik]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5n9xafjynJA

Semi

https://www.tesla.com/semi/
0-60: 5 seconds
0-60 at max weight: 20 seconds
range: 500 miles at max weight and highway speed
charging: 400 miles in 30 minutes (15 minutes typical diesel), plus can charge while loading and unloading
5% grade: 65mph (45mph best diesels)
warranty: 1 million mile drivetrain
total operating cost: $1.26/mile ($1.51/mile for diesel)
50% cheaper per mile in caravan mode (3 trucks) in worse case scenario vs diesel trucks, even cheaper then rail
drag coefficient: 0.36 (Bugatti Chiron 0.38)
production begins 2019

4 motors (one on each rear wheel)

enhanced autopilot, safe driver position, low rollover risk, jackknifing prevention (independently adjust torque on each wheel so impossible to jackknife)

never need to replace brake pads

arrmor glass prevents cracks (because truckers aren't allowed to drive with a cracked windshield) https://twitter.com/Tesla/status/931383280405852160

not really a fan of the design aesthetic (looks euro-weenie), but i guess that isn't important


There is also a Pickup version of the semi that can be driven with a regular driver's license

"a pickup truck that can carry a pickup truck"


Roadster 2.0

0-60: 1.9 seconds
0-100: 4.2 seconds
1/4 mile: 8.9 seconds
top speed: over 250mph
620 mile range

3 motors (1 front, 2 rear, torque steering)
4 seats (2+2)
convertible
plenty of storage
200 kWh battery
2020 availability

$200,000 (reserve for $50,000)
$250,000 founders edition (reserve for $250,000)


video of 0-60 ridealong: https://youtu.be/O50xkSLP5VA?t=113

 

[KMFJD]

I'm impressed with the Semi truck, how many miles does a trucker typically drive in a day though?

 

[tynopik]

I'm impressed with the Semi truck, how many miles does a trucker typically drive in a day though?

the thing to remember is that truckers are legally required to take a 30 minute break every 8 hours

and it can recharge 400 miles in that 30 minutes

also 80% of routes are less than 250 miles, so if you can charge at each endpoint, you never have to make a separate stop for fuel

OTOH no sleeper, so that will restrict the routes it can run

 

[Ventanni]

I think diesel and gasoline cars are going to innately have greater ranges than battery powered vehicles by nature of the existing infrastructure, but this is a great start.

 

[ultimatebob]

Those $50,000 and $250,000 deposits on the Roadster scare me. It makes me wonder if they announced this car way too early just so they get the cash they need to get their Model 3 production back on track.

Tesla could prove me wrong and hand the prototype over to Road and Track so they can film it humiliating a Dodge Demon on a drag strip, but something tells me that won't be ready to do that for awhile.

I sure as hell wouldn't risk that much money on Tesla still being around to build the car 3 years from now, but I'm sure that there are a ton of obnoxious Silicon Valley VC's who are. If Elon steals their money and never delivers a car to them, I'm OK with that

 

[tynopik]

Those $50,000 and $250,000 deposits on the Roadster scare me. It makes me wonder if they announced this car way too early just so they get the cash they need to get their Model 3 production back on track.

obviously

 

[K1052]

From what I'm reading Tesla will guarantee $0.07/kWh supply for Semi owners. Energy supply cost certainty is going to perk up a lot of big corporate fleet ears.


Edit: Looks like they already want to test the waters

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...r-from-michigan-grocery-chain-for-semi-trucks

Tesla Inc.’s Semi is headed for the grocery stores in Detroit Three automakers’ backyards.

Meijer Inc. has reserved four Semi trucks for $5,000 deposits apiece, Dan Scherer, a fleet manager for the Grand Rapids, Michigan-based retailer, said at the product unveilingheld Thursday at Tesla’s design studio near Los Angeles. He said the closely held company operates 220 trucks in six states in the Midwest.

“Electric drivetrains are a proven technology,” Scherer said in an interview. “Electricity is cheaper fuel than diesel, and you are less dependent on the spot pricing of fossil fuel.”

 

[Greenman]

Very impressive truck. The only question is, can they actually build it?

 

[tynopik]

they actually deleted the bottom tweet and 'rephrased' it

 

[tynopik]

one thing they didn't mention (besides the price, which they sort of danced around), was the weight

weight matters because total vehicle weight (truck+trailer) can't exceed 80,000 lbs. So every extra pound the truck weighs is one less pound of revenue-earning cargo it can carry.

of course many loads cube out before they weigh out, but still an interesting omission

 

[manly]

Those $50,000 and $250,000 deposits on the Roadster scare me. It makes me wonder if they announced this car way too early just so they get the cash they need to get their Model 3 production back on track.

Tesla could prove me wrong and hand the prototype over to Road and Track so they can film it humiliating a Dodge Demon on a drag strip, but something tells me that won't be ready to do that for awhile.

I sure as hell wouldn't risk that much money on Tesla still being around to build the car 3 years from now, but I'm sure that there are a ton of obnoxious Silicon Valley VC's who are. If Elon steals their money and never delivers a car to them, I'm OK with that

What are the odds that Tesla will be an independent concern in 3 years? I don't think they'll disappear but the likeliest end game is that one of the large automakers buys them out at a fraction of their current market cap.

I live in SV and I was told that there's nothing in law that restricts how Tesla uses customer deposits; in other words the Model 3 reservations largesse was spent months ago. Investors currently have almost a limitless appetite for their junk bonds but that can't go on forever.

Having said that, I do like Tesla and I think there's still a fair chance that they end up being able to produce and sell a couple hundred thousand M-3s within a couple years (say calendar year 2019 or 2020) to clear the reservation backlog. But I wouldn't bet any money on it and the numbers they've previously hinted at (and have now more or less renounced) are silly. For Tesla to sell about 1M BEVs in 2020, approx. 700k of those would have to be Model 3s. That's just not going to happen. Even 400k 3s would be a smash hit in 2020.

 

[Kaido]

620-mile battery in the Model X plz

 

[ultimatebob]

What are the odds that Tesla will be an independent concern in 3 years? I don't think they'll disappear but the likeliest end game is that one of the large automakers buys them out at a fraction of their current market cap.

I live in SV and I was told that there's nothing in law that restricts how Tesla uses customer deposits; in other words the Model 3 reservations largesse was spent months ago. Investors currently have almost a limitless appetite for their junk bonds but that can't go on forever.

Having said that, I do like Tesla and I think there's still a fair chance that they end up being able to produce and sell a couple hundred thousand M-3s within a couple years (say calendar year 2019 or 2020) to clear the reservation backlog. But I wouldn't bet any money on it and the numbers they've previously hinted at (and have now more or less renounced) are silly. For Tesla to sell about 1M BEVs in 2020, approx. 700k of those would have to be Model 3s. That's just not going to happen. Even 400k 3s would be a smash hit in 2020.

I have to wonder what happens if Tesla continues to lag behind on Model 3 shipments, or if they have a quality problem that requires a major recall. They aren't in good financial shape right now, and that just might be enough to put them out of business.

 

[zerocool84]

Very impressive truck. The only question is, can they actually build it?

Not for a long time.

Tesla's strategy is to reveal something snazzy but years off, put out pre-orders and use the money for those pre-orders for their current products. That's why they announced the truck and roadster. They are in need of more money.

They can't even build Model 3's automated yet which means they take forever to build any of them.

 

[ultimatebob]

Not for a long time.

Tesla's strategy is to reveal something snazzy but years off, put out pre-orders and use the money for those pre-orders for their current products. That's why they announced the truck and roadster. They are in need of more money.

They can't even build Model 3's automated yet which means they take forever to build any of them.

Yeah, and it's starting to worry me. History is filled with car makers who had shiny new innovative products (Tucker, DeLorean, Vector, etc) that failed when it came to producing and selling them en masse.

 

[Greenman]

Not for a long time.

Tesla's strategy is to reveal something snazzy but years off, put out pre-orders and use the money for those pre-orders for their current products. That's why they announced the truck and roadster. They are in need of more money.

They can't even build Model 3's automated yet which means they take forever to build any of them.

I was thinking primarily about the engineering side. As in, does the technology to build it actually exist, or is it all based on the notion that in 3 years a hand full of AAA batteries will do the job?
Musk seems to have a following that believes he's a visionary and a genius. I think he's a guy that builds ok electric cars at a premium price. I don't know how deep he's involved in space x, and his other ventures appear to be so much vapor at this point.

He's burning cash at a pretty extravagant rate, and suffering with all the issues one would expect of a company pushing the envelope of technology. The question is, will he run out of money before he gets his products to market?

 

[tynopik]

I was thinking primarily about the engineering side. As in, does the technology to build it actually exist

yes, it can be built with today's technology. the engineering and manufacturing remain of course

I think he's a guy that builds ok electric cars at a premium price . . . his other ventures appear to be so much vapor at this point.

well his other ventures aren't so relevant at this point. This is about building cars and trucks, something we know he can do.

He's burning cash at a pretty extravagant rate, and suffering with all the issues one would expect of a company pushing the envelope of technology. The question is, will he run out of money before he gets his products to market?

it really depends on the Model 3. If they can get their manufacturing problems worked out and demand remains strong, then it shouldn't be a problem. If not, . . .

 

[tynopik]

Yeah, and it's starting to worry me. History is filled with car makers who had shiny new innovative products (Tucker, DeLorean, Vector, etc) that failed when it came to producing and selling them en masse.

The most successful of those was DeLorean who sold about 9,000 cars. Tesla sold 26,000 cars last quarter and more than 260,000 overall. That doesn't mean they can't fail, but they're clearly in a different league

perhaps most importantly, they don't seem to have problems continuing to raise funds

obviously they will need the Model 3 to be successful sooner rather than later, but as long as they can raise money, there's no immediate threat of closure

 

[Greenman]

perhaps most importantly, they don't seem to have problems continuing to raise funds

That's the part I don't fathom. At what point does Tesla have to make the transition from borrowing money to showing a profit?

 

[PeterScott]

I was thinking primarily about the engineering side. As in, does the technology to build it actually exist, or is it all based on the notion that in 3 years a hand full of AAA batteries will do the job?
Musk seems to have a following that believes he's a visionary and a genius. I think he's a guy that builds ok electric cars at a premium price. I don't know how deep he's involved in space x, and his other ventures appear to be so much vapor at this point.

That seems like a bunch of ignorant/incorrect observations.

Technology actually exist? The Semi, and Roadster demonstrated are quite functional and appear to be very close to production ready.

The big rig uses 4 EV motors from the the Model 3. Some of coverage mentioned Tesla is already using pre-production big rig to do work hauling between the Battery Gigafactory and the Car factory.

The Roadster was doing back to back full power launches all night >40 times in a row, without a hiccup.

You won't see many conventional car produces try to pull off "Launch Control" launches all night with their productions cars.

 

[tynopik]

video of Semi acceleration

 

[Greenman]

That seems like a bunch of ignorant/incorrect observations.

Technology actually exist? The Semi, and Roadster demonstrated are quite functional and appear to be very close to production ready.

The big rig uses 4 EV motors from the the Model 3. Some of coverage mentioned Tesla is already using pre-production big rig to do work hauling between the Battery Gigafactory and the Car factory.

The Roadster was doing back to back full power launches all night >40 times in a row, without a hiccup.

You won't see many conventional car produces try to pull off "Launch Control" launches all night with their productions cars.

There is a vast difference between marketing and production. On the truck side, it might be the greatest thing since sliced bread, but when you make grand claims as Musk did, you need to step up with something besides a flashy looking body. Let a third party evaluate what it does. I also wonder what the battery weight is. Trucks have a finite weight limit, every pound that isn't cargo adds up over the entire lifetime of the vehicle. At some point in the future that won't matter because there will be no choice, but for now it has to be considered. If it's all as good as claimed, Tesla will need several factory's to build them as the demand will be huge.
As for the car, it's great it works, but it's so far outside the realm of what most people will buy that it doesn't matter. You may consider a quarter million dollars for a car as within the realm of reason, I don't, and I don't know anyone who does. It's a rich guys toy.

Electric cars and trucks are the future, no doubt about it. I'd buy an electric pickup tomorrow if the total cost of ownership isn't a great deal more than an ICE. But I need a lot more than a salesman telling me how great it is. I need actual measured performance.

Personally, I think Tesla should be working on producing the cars they've already sold before they start tooling up to produce anything else.

 

[PeterScott]

There is a vast difference between marketing and production. On the truck side, it might be the greatest thing since sliced bread, but when you make grand claims as Musk did, you need to step up with something besides a flashy looking body. Let a third party evaluate what it does. I also wonder what the battery weight is. Trucks have a finite weight limit, every pound that isn't cargo adds up over the entire lifetime of the vehicle. At some point in the future that won't matter because there will be no choice, but for now it has to be considered. If it's all as good as claimed, Tesla will need several factory's to build them as the demand will be huge.
As for the car, it's great it works, but it's so far outside the realm of what most people will buy that it doesn't matter. You may consider a quarter million dollars for a car as within the realm of reason, I don't, and I don't know anyone who does. It's a rich guys toy.

Electric cars and trucks are the future, no doubt about it. I'd buy an electric pickup tomorrow if the total cost of ownership isn't a great deal more than an ICE. But I need a lot more than a salesman telling me how great it is. I need actual measured performance.

Personally, I think Tesla should be working on producing the cars they've already sold before they start tooling up to produce anything else.

That is a change in tune, from "does the technology to build it actually exist"

Third parties are going to be evaluating the Semi, as they have some preliminary orders.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...oard-teslas-electric-truck-idUSKBN1DH1GH?il=0

As far as the Roadster being a "Rich Mans Toy", so what?

Haven't you heard of a Halo Car? This is a great marketing move for Tesla, which doesn't really advertise.

It's actually a smarter move for Tesla to have low volume project like this in the mix until the Model 3 backlog is cleared, then they can look at higher volume things like a pickup truck.

Bottom line: The technology exists. The pre-poduction models look solid, and Tesla has never really failed to deliver. They usually just have some issues getting it out there on their optimistic timelines.

 

[zerocool84]

Personally, I think Tesla should be working on producing the cars they've already sold before they start tooling up to produce anything else.

That's the thing though, they need the money of the prospect of these future vehicle to fund their current vehicles.

The problem is they obviously can't keep this up forever.

 

[Greenman]

That is a change in tune, from "does the technology to build it actually exist"

Third parties are going to be evaluating the Semi, as they have some preliminary orders.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...oard-teslas-electric-truck-idUSKBN1DH1GH?il=0

As far as the Roadster being a "Rich Mans Toy", so what?

Haven't you heard of a Halo Car? This is a great marketing move for Tesla, which doesn't really advertise.

It's actually a smarter move for Tesla to have low volume project like this in the mix until the Model 3 backlog is cleared, then they can look at higher volume things like a pickup truck.

Bottom line: The technology exists. The pre-poduction models look solid, and Tesla has never really failed to deliver. They usually just have some issues getting it out there on their optimistic timelines.

Perhaps I wasn't clear. There is no doubt the truck could be built right now. The question is can it match the specs Musk announced and be a viable alternative to an ICE? A truck with twenty thousand pounds of batteries is a joke, a truck with four thousand pounds of batteries is viable contender. I'll check out your link.

I don't have a horse in this race, but I'm always skeptical when marketing weenies make grand claims.

Edit: Checked the link you supplied. They basically have the same questions as I did. There was also mention of hydrogen powered trucks that I was unaware of.