Tesla is offering Solar Rental starting at $50/mo

[Kaido]

https://www.tesla.com/energy/design

Currently available in 6 states:

1. California
2. Arizona
3. Connecticut
4. Masscutsetts
5. New Jersey
6. New Mexico

Sizing & pricing: (support & maintenance included)

* Small 3.8kW @ $50/mo (California costs a bit more, $65/mo)
* Medium 7.6kW @ $100/mo
* Large 11.4KW @ $150/mo

* $100 refundable setup charge
* No long-term contract
* $1,500 removal fee

For comparison, Costco has a 5.8kW system for $10k:

https://www.costco.com/Grape-Solar-5830-Watt-Grid-Tied-Solar-Kit.product.100242525.html

The problem is, most people don't have $10,000 lying around, and $50/mo is a waaaaaay better starting point. Now if they would only lease out the Powerwall batteries...

 

[Fanatical Meat]

https://www.tesla.com/energy/design

Currently available in 6 states:

1. California
2. Arizona
3. Connecticut
4. Masscutsetts
5. New Jersey
6. New Mexico

Sizing & pricing: (support & maintenance included)

* Small 3.8kW @ $50/mo (California costs a bit more, $65/mo)
* Medium 7.6kW @ $100/mo
* Large 11.4KW @ $150/mo

* $100 refundable setup charge
* No long-term contract
* $1,500 removal fee

For comparison, Costco has a 5.8kW system for $10k:

https://www.costco.com/Grape-Solar-5830-Watt-Grid-Tied-Solar-Kit.product.100242525.html

The problem is, most people don't have $10,000 lying around, and $50/mo is a waaaaaay better starting point. Now if they would only lease out the Powerwall batteries...

Those are SREQ states, Tesla keeps the credits generated to pay for the panels.
I’m MA nearly all panels pay for themselves within 6-8 years with the credits.
While I’d love a $50 per month power wall, I doubt the financials would work.

 

[Kaido]

Those are SREQ states, Tesla keeps the credits generated to pay for the panels.
I’m MA nearly all panels pay for themselves within 6-8 years with the credits.
While I’d love a $50 per month power wall, I doubt the financials would work.

If I could get a $50/mo 3.8kW solar panel install + a $50/mo Powerwall lease, I'd do that in a heartbeat! But yeah...the numbers 🙁

 

[Greenman]

This doesn't seem like a bad deal for those without a lot of capitol laying around, what am I missing?

 

[Fanatical Meat]

This doesn't seem like a bad deal for those without a lot of capitol laying around, what am I missing?

Not a bad deal for someone with a family that has large electric bills and not a lot of funds.
Better deal is to own them yourself and get the solar credits. Our System generates us $2-$2.5K per year which will run for a total of 8 years.
Leasing the panels you opt out of that, basically you are renting space on your roof to buy back the electricity generated at a discounted rate.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Renting solar panels seems like such an odd thing. If you're going solar it's to try to reduce your power bill. If you're renting the panels you're just replacing the savings with another monthly bill.

Would be better if they sold them and just offered financing. But really solar panels arn't that expensive anymore, the hardest part is actually obtaining them as there's not lot of sites that actually have them for sale where you can buy and get them shipped at a reasonable cost. When I was looking into it I only found a few sites that sell them in Canada and the shipping cost was retarded. Ended up finding some 100w modules on Amazon at an ok price with free shipping so went that route. 280w+ modules are more cost effective for big scale setups though but they are harder to buy.

 

[Kaido]

Amazon & Walmart aren't too happy right now:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...mart-in-saying-tesla-solar-panels-caught-fire

 

[Greenman]

Renting solar panels seems like such an odd thing. If you're going solar it's to try to reduce your power bill. If you're renting the panels you're just replacing the savings with another monthly bill.

Would be better if they sold them and just offered financing. But really solar panels arn't that expensive anymore, the hardest part is actually obtaining them as there's not lot of sites that actually have them for sale where you can buy and get them shipped at a reasonable cost. When I was looking into it I only found a few sites that sell them in Canada and the shipping cost was retarded. Ended up finding some 100w modules on Amazon at an ok price with free shipping so went that route. 280w+ modules are more cost effective for big scale setups though but they are harder to buy.

Leased or rented systems are simply a way for folks who can't afford solar to maybe save a few bucks on their energy bill. The idea being that saving a few bucks is better than not saving any.

 

[Kaido]

Leased or rented systems are simply a way for folks who can't afford solar to maybe save a few bucks on their energy bill. The idea being that saving a few bucks is better than not saving any.

One of the things I struggled with for a long time was "monolithic thinking" - I wanted the full, awesome setup, and not anything in-between. I eventually started adopting a more divided thinking approach of "good, better, best", as far as options to set my targets to. I think solar is one of those things that you have to take that approach to...yeah, it'd be awesome to spend $30k on a few Powerwalls & huge solar installation for your home, but the economics make things difficult...not many people have $30k lying around to invest, and the financing on a solar + battery setup might never have a true break-even point or payoff, at least not before the batteries need to be replaced & the panels drop in power output over time.

Thus, the $50/mo option is really appealing because hey, if you can save a few hundred bucks on your power bill a year, why not? Especially if you get some bonus power during power outages in the daytime. So that's more of a "good" approach than the "best" approach of shelling out five figures for a complete system, but it's also one that you can make forward progress on, instead of just daydreaming about it. I let a lot of projects in my own life slide because I wasn't willing to break that monolithic line of thinking & take a piecemeal approach so that I could actually make progress on things. Kinda crazy, but having a better approach has helped me out a lot in life!

 

[Fanatical Meat]

One of the things I struggled with for a long time was "monolithic thinking" - I wanted the full, awesome setup, and not anything in-between. I eventually started adopting a more divided thinking approach of "good, better, best", as far as options to set my targets to. I think solar is one of those things that you have to take that approach to...yeah, it'd be awesome to spend $30k on a few Powerwalls & huge solar installation for your home, but the economics make things difficult...not many people have $30k lying around to invest, and the financing on a solar + battery setup might never have a true break-even point or payoff, at least not before the batteries need to be replaced & the panels drop in power output over time.

Thus, the $50/mo option is really appealing because hey, if you can save a few hundred bucks on your power bill a year, why not? Especially if you get some bonus power during power outages in the daytime. So that's more of a "good" approach than the "best" approach of shelling out five figures for a complete system, but it's also one that you can make forward progress on, instead of just daydreaming about it. I let a lot of projects in my own life slide because I wasn't willing to break that monolithic line of thinking & take a piecemeal approach so that I could actually make progress on things. Kinda crazy, but having a better approach has helped me out a lot in life!

No power during outages unless you have a battery backup like the powerwall.
System shuts off to prevent line workers from getting shocked plus something about the current from the panels.

 

[Greenman]

One of the things I struggled with for a long time was "monolithic thinking" - I wanted the full, awesome setup, and not anything in-between. I eventually started adopting a more divided thinking approach of "good, better, best", as far as options to set my targets to. I think solar is one of those things that you have to take that approach to...yeah, it'd be awesome to spend $30k on a few Powerwalls & huge solar installation for your home, but the economics make things difficult...not many people have $30k lying around to invest, and the financing on a solar + battery setup might never have a true break-even point or payoff, at least not before the batteries need to be replaced & the panels drop in power output over time.

Thus, the $50/mo option is really appealing because hey, if you can save a few hundred bucks on your power bill a year, why not? Especially if you get some bonus power during power outages in the daytime. So that's more of a "good" approach than the "best" approach of shelling out five figures for a complete system, but it's also one that you can make forward progress on, instead of just daydreaming about it. I let a lot of projects in my own life slide because I wasn't willing to break that monolithic line of thinking & take a piecemeal approach so that I could actually make progress on things. Kinda crazy, but having a better approach has helped me out a lot in life!

That's a valid approach, and it works for a lot of people. The one other issue I've seen around here is buyer's reluctant to purchase homes with leased systems. Tesla seems to have addressed that issue.
My struggle with solar is purely one of ROI. I can install my own system at a pretty reasonable price (I'm a GC) but I plan on selling in 4 or 5 years and It doesn't appear that solar will net me any more profit at that time. At least not enough to justify the effort of installing the system.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

That's a valid approach, and it works for a lot of people. The one other issue I've seen around here is buyer's reluctant to purchase homes with leased systems. Tesla seems to have addressed that issue.
My struggle with solar is purely one of ROI. I can install my own system at a pretty reasonable price (I'm a GC) but I plan on selling in 4 or 5 years and It doesn't appear that solar will net me any more profit at that time. At least not enough to justify the effort of installing the system.

I’m a realtor and most of us do not understand the benefits of owned solar.
You need a guy like me who can explain to people in brief words what an SREQ is and how it’s a benefit.
Post that up in mls & attach a summary of what you’ve earned over x months or y years.
Realtors & people keep looking at it wrong, they look at it as it’s $20k to save $100 on my electric bill???! That’s insane.

Real answer is the panels put off $2-$4k per year in income AND it’s free electric.
Plus all the benefits, I added a heat pump, the house is much more comfortable year round and we have yet to pay an electric bill.

Challenge is finding the right person.
If you are outside of Mass I can’t help you.

Problem with leased panels is someone who is looking for solar don’t want leased panels, the buy out cost is typically insane and sometimes the few extra dollars paid in the lease can screwup a mortgage because the lease is a debt and that messes with the buyers debt to income.

 

[Micrornd]

No power during outages unless you have a battery backup like the powerwall.
System shuts off to prevent line workers from getting shocked plus something about the current from the panels.

I haven't researched that, but if that's true, that makes absolutely no sense to me ? 🙄

When power goes out here, my genset starts and the transfer switch switches from utility to genset, completely isolating me from the utility and making sure the line workers are safe.
There's no reason a transfer switch couldn't be incorporated in a Tesla system.
It would add about $450 for the switch (plus labor) for the average home.

 

[Red Squirrel]

One of the things I struggled with for a long time was "monolithic thinking" - I wanted the full, awesome setup, and not anything in-between. I eventually started adopting a more divided thinking approach of "good, better, best", as far as options to set my targets to. I think solar is one of those things that you have to take that approach to...yeah, it'd be awesome to spend $30k on a few Powerwalls & huge solar installation for your home, but the economics make things difficult...not many people have $30k lying around to invest, and the financing on a solar + battery setup might never have a true break-even point or payoff, at least not before the batteries need to be replaced & the panels drop in power output over time.

Thus, the $50/mo option is really appealing because hey, if you can save a few hundred bucks on your power bill a year, why not? Especially if you get some bonus power during power outages in the daytime. So that's more of a "good" approach than the "best" approach of shelling out five figures for a complete system, but it's also one that you can make forward progress on, instead of just daydreaming about it. I let a lot of projects in my own life slide because I wasn't willing to break that monolithic line of thinking & take a piecemeal approach so that I could actually make progress on things. Kinda crazy, but having a better approach has helped me out a lot in life!

You would need to save more than a few hundred bucks a year in hydro to make it worthwhile though. But looking at it, it's rated at 3.8kw. Let's just round to 3 for simplicity and because you rarely get the full capacity. So let's say you produce/use 21kwh per day (7 hours of daylight at 3kwh) that's $2.81 at 13.4c/kwh. So you actually would save $84.42/mo in hydro so about $35 after the rental fee. You could basically run your A/C all day off the panels to take advantage of them and your A/C is sorta free to run. So yeah it's not too bad a deal actually.

I still prefer to own myself but I can kind of see the appeal. But yeah I sometimes fall in that trap where I tell myself "go big or go home" but sometimes it's just not worth it. Was sizing solar panels for my house and I came up with different "packages" and the smallest one I created was around 10-15k. Was around 1-2kw or so and for me that would be more than enough. My roof can't handle more than 3kw due to size/shape. That would essentially run the server room and few other loads around the house, and it would also replace my server room UPS as I would just treat the entire solar setup as a UPS. I would run it off solar at all times but if the battery voltage got too low due to lack of sun the rectifiers would kick on.

Ideally though I'm better off saving that money as I do want to buy off grid/cottage property, so if I want to play around with solar I'm better off doing it in a place where I actually have more room and a real need. I would do a ground mount system, much easier to maintain and build without messing with heights and making sure things seal right on roof etc.

I do have a 400w system on my shed, it does not produce much in winter due to the short days and being covered in snow most of the time as I don't go clear it every day, but in summer I could probably run a few things in the house, just need to run power.

 

[Red Squirrel]

I haven't researched that, but if that's true, that makes absolutely no sense to me ? 🙄

When power goes out here, my genset starts and the transfer switch switches from utility to genset, completely isolating me from the utility and making sure the line workers are safe.
There's no reason a transfer switch couldn't be incorporated in a Tesla system.
It would add about $450 for the switch (plus labor) for the average home.

For 100% grid tied setups I wonder how that would work with a generator, I think it actually would work once the transfer switch switches to your generator your solar would then be tied to the "grid" of your generator but still isolated from the main grid.

Without a generator/transfer switch and without batteries then yeah you are out of power like anybody else if the power goes out. Solar does not produce constant power so you really can't run directly off it anyway you need batteries/inverter to do that. Personally I prefer off grid setups for that reason. With on grid you are relying on the fact that the hydro company will continue to buy power. These programs come and go all the time and are very volatile. Here in Ontario they used to have the FIT/Micro FIT program but it ended a while back (Even before Ford came into power). So imagine making that investment and then they stop buying, you basically have solar panels doing nothing. Solar panels on their own are cheap though so it is a cheap way to get into solar if your hydro company offers the program.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I haven't researched that, but if that's true, that makes absolutely no sense to me ? 🙄

When power goes out here, my genset starts and the transfer switch switches from utility to genset, completely isolating me from the utility and making sure the line workers are safe.
There's no reason a transfer switch couldn't be incorporated in a Tesla system.
It would add about $450 for the switch (plus labor) for the average home.

Yes and this could be a state thing but as of now the switches are not verified to work with solar panels.
I know it sounds weird because it is technically possible.
However keep in mind typically weather that causes power outages isn’t the best weather to be generating solar energy from.

Regarding some sort of battery like the powerwall those switches are fine.
You can’t run your house off just the panels is what I’m saying.

 

[Kaido]

That's a valid approach, and it works for a lot of people. The one other issue I've seen around here is buyer's reluctant to purchase homes with leased systems. Tesla seems to have addressed that issue.
My struggle with solar is purely one of ROI. I can install my own system at a pretty reasonable price (I'm a GC) but I plan on selling in 4 or 5 years and It doesn't appear that solar will net me any more profit at that time. At least not enough to justify the effort of installing the system.

Yup, yup, and yup. $1,500 for removal sounds like a lot initially, but that's pretty reasonable for a $100 up-front fee & $50/mo minimum operating fee with zero contract.

 

[Kaido]

You would need to save more than a few hundred bucks a year in hydro to make it worthwhile though. But looking at it, it's rated at 3.8kw. Let's just round to 3 for simplicity and because you rarely get the full capacity. So let's say you produce/use 21kwh per day (7 hours of daylight at 3kwh) that's $2.81 at 13.4c/kwh. So you actually would save $84.42/mo in hydro so about $35 after the rental fee. You could basically run your A/C all day off the panels to take advantage of them and your A/C is sorta free to run. So yeah it's not too bad a deal actually.

I still prefer to own myself but I can kind of see the appeal. But yeah I sometimes fall in that trap where I tell myself "go big or go home" but sometimes it's just not worth it. Was sizing solar panels for my house and I came up with different "packages" and the smallest one I created was around 10-15k. Was around 1-2kw or so and for me that would be more than enough. My roof can't handle more than 3kw due to size/shape. That would essentially run the server room and few other loads around the house, and it would also replace my server room UPS as I would just treat the entire solar setup as a UPS. I would run it off solar at all times but if the battery voltage got too low due to lack of sun the rectifiers would kick on.

Ideally though I'm better off saving that money as I do want to buy off grid/cottage property, so if I want to play around with solar I'm better off doing it in a place where I actually have more room and a real need. I would do a ground mount system, much easier to maintain and build without messing with heights and making sure things seal right on roof etc.

I do have a 400w system on my shed, it does not produce much in winter due to the short days and being covered in snow most of the time as I don't go clear it every day, but in summer I could probably run a few things in the house, just need to run power.

tbh that's my problem with building a house right now, the "go big or go home thing". I've been renting since we got married (about a decade & a half now) & we'd like to build at this point. I'd really like to get Tesla solar tiles for 3 reasons:

1. Super-strong durability
2. Power generation
3. Aesthetics - your house still looks nice & isn't plastered with flat solar panels on top of the shingles

However:

1. They are ridiculously expensive, so unless you have the bucks, it's something you'd really want to do on new construction, so that you could wrap it up on your mortgage
2. They are only like v3 of the pre-production tiles, which means they STILL aren't finished yet with the final design
3. I've learned my lesson, the hard way, multiple times, about buying first-generation hardware, which is almost always rushed to market to meet a delivery deadline

So I'd really want to wait for awhile to make sure the system gets out there & is vetted & tested IRL before investing in a system. But, I'm not really willing to build a house with a regular roofing system & then replace them later, due to the work, cost, and lost money on the old roof. Realistically I'd expect the tiles to be mature & readily-available 3 years from now, which is a loooooong time. So I dunno.

I could just do regular panels like in the backyard, but property where I live is crazy expensive. 2 acres of land with a house on it will run you like $15k/yr in property taxes. It'd be cool to have the room & put a ton of panels & batteries in place - that'd be my "best" scenario in the good/better/best approach - but that's a high cost up-front & would eat up property & would cost me extra money for the land every month. I mean, there's more to that story, of course, but from a high-level view...meh. Could just buy a whole-house generator & call it "done" lol.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Honestly the tiles are only really good for HOAs where solar is usually not allowed as it can hide the fact that you have solar. For new construction in a place where traditional solar is allowed I'd go that route as it's cheaper and also easier to maintain. I'm not even sure how those tiles are connected but it sounds like they would be a nightmare to install, and roofing is a job that has to be done fast because you're racing against the weather. Best to keep the roof and the solar as two separate systems imo.

I wish I had a bigger property myself or I would do a big 10kw+ ground mount system but I just don't have the room. There is lot of cheap unorganized township property outside of town though, so I do want to eventually buy some to build a cottage, just looking for a good lake front one to come up that's within my budget. Taxes are super low in those places too. I've thought of just looking into buying a bigger property here and moving but same issue here the taxes are retarded. The secondary property would be a recreational property but I'd eventually live there when I retire.

 

[Greenman]

tbh that's my problem with building a house right now, the "go big or go home thing". I've been renting since we got married (about a decade & a half now) & we'd like to build at this point. I'd really like to get Tesla solar tiles for 3 reasons:

1. Super-strong durability
2. Power generation
3. Aesthetics - your house still looks nice & isn't plastered with flat solar panels on top of the shingles

However:

1. They are ridiculously expensive, so unless you have the bucks, it's something you'd really want to do on new construction, so that you could wrap it up on your mortgage
2. They are only like v3 of the pre-production tiles, which means they STILL aren't finished yet with the final design
3. I've learned my lesson, the hard way, multiple times, about buying first-generation hardware, which is almost always rushed to market to meet a delivery deadline

So I'd really want to wait for awhile to make sure the system gets out there & is vetted & tested IRL before investing in a system. But, I'm not really willing to build a house with a regular roofing system & then replace them later, due to the work, cost, and lost money on the old roof. Realistically I'd expect the tiles to be mature & readily-available 3 years from now, which is a loooooong time. So I dunno.

I could just do regular panels like in the backyard, but property where I live is crazy expensive. 2 acres of land with a house on it will run you like $15k/yr in property taxes. It'd be cool to have the room & put a ton of panels & batteries in place - that'd be my "best" scenario in the good/better/best approach - but that's a high cost up-front & would eat up property & would cost me extra money for the land every month. I mean, there's more to that story, of course, but from a high-level view...meh. Could just buy a whole-house generator & call it "done" lol.

I think planing your life around the possible availability of an improved solar roofing system isn't a real good idea. Also, as redsquirrel pointed out, there is some logic to keeping the two systems separate.

 

[Kaido]

I think planing your life around the possible availability of an improved solar roofing system isn't a real good idea. Also, as redsquirrel pointed out, there is some logic to keeping the two systems separate.

From an outsider's perspective, that is true, but from an insider's perspective (i.e. the goals I have for my own system), it makes sense:

1. I want to have 100% grid independence
2. The tiles are extremely strong (plus they look good, plus they have a 30-year power-generation warranty, plus they have a lifetime warranty)
3. I wouldn't have to put panels on the roof & mar the aesthetics of the house
4. I wouldn't need to eat up space in my backyard (land is $$$ where I live) for panels either



The tiles are an extremely nice option because they kill two birds with one stone: they're strong AND they're integrated into the house, so I don't have to put panels on the roof or eat into my yard space. Two months ago, Musk said that the V3 solar tile roof's price will drop down to the cost of a shingle roof plus electric bill:

https://electrek.co/2019/06/12/tesla-solar-roof-v3-shingle-price/

Originally, when the Tesla tile roof was launched, they said it would cost $21.85 per square foot, so if V3 is dramatically cheaper, that would make the financial aspect easier. CleanTechnica did a good financial analysis here:

https://cleantechnica.com/2019/06/1...of-a-roof-electricity-cleantechnica-analysis/

To me, it makes sense to bundle the solar tile installation in with the custom home build for several reasons:

1. I can finance it through the mortgage, instead of having to cough up the funds up-front (ouch) or finance through Tesla (or whoever) separately
2. I don't have to install a regular roof & then tear that down to put the solar tiles on, which would be a huge waste of time, effort, and money
3. I'm not in any rush to build, especially as I'm building it myself lol

So I don't have any kind of deadline at the moment, meaning there's no rush to build, thus I can wait on the roof, as it would (hopefully) be something that would be part of the house for the entire lifetime of the home. And as it's such a big part of the design financially, strength & structure-wise, and power-wise, it seems like it's a feature worth waiting for, especially as I have a flexible timeline on my side. On a tangent, here's a neat video of the original tile design with a 100mph hail test:

 

[Greenman]

I'll be very curious to see how the technology pans out. Conceptually it's a good idea, the warranty is solid, and the marketing is spot on, now we just need the product.