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Tesla Cybertruck

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WelshBloke said:
Yeah, that is an unfortunate design decision. There seems a lot of wasted space up front. Although lack of visibility in a Cybertruck thread is probably redundant!

There seems to be a lot of "make it different for the sake of it" rather than "look how we can make it better because we dont need a big space for an engine" going on in EV design. I understand the conservative make it look like a regular car thing to ease people into it but just making something look weird for no advantage seems odd.
Click to expand...
we already covered this earlier. i linked a video where some industry guys podcast interview sandy munro about the cybertruck. die stamp/press molds are hundred million dollar investments that lock you into a design for years to decades. the cybertruck panels are fundamentally flat with some bends that can be done on a simple press brake. they didnt have to do the triangle peak top but it does radically simplify manufacturing.
 
gorobei said:
we already covered this earlier. i linked a video where some industry guys podcast interview sandy munro about the cybertruck. die stamp/press molds are hundred million dollar investments that lock you into a design for years to decades. the cybertruck panels are fundamentally flat with some bends that can be done on a simple press brake. they didnt have to do the triangle peak top but it does radically simplify manufacturing.
Click to expand...
I mean I don't think that the actual panels are the thing that's inflating the price of EVs!
The automotive industry is pretty experienced with stamping out curved panels.
 
WelshBloke said:
I mean I don't think that the actual panels are the thing that's inflating the price of EVs!
The automotive industry is pretty experienced with stamping out curved panels.
Click to expand...
munro covers the costs in the video. custom tooling is the most expensive part of manufacturing.

all the functional sub components are either off the shelf options from vendors (instrument clusters, infotainment, brakes, shocks, alternators, airbags, etc.) or sub contractor basic injection mold plastic (interior panels, light cluster assemblies, etc). so the main thing that the automakers are responsible for is the body.

tool steel dies are expensive. the bits needed to cut tool steel are also expensive since they are expendable. making the dies is only economically viable when you use them for large number production runs. munro said the cybertruck would cost an additional ~$40K(or something like) if tesla had to pay for custom die bodywork (with an additional year or two delay just to make the dies).
 
WelshBloke said:
Its not really custom tooling if its for a production run of a car.

Stamping out body panels isn't a technically difficult thing at all!
Click to expand...
custom tooling is making the tools for anything that cant be bought off the shelf. you can not buy a die for a unibody car off of anyone's shelf. custom milling a body panel is not an option.


stamping steel and making a part is cheap.
[cost of press, electricity, labor.]

cutting tool steel to make a female and male die is expensive.
[carbide cutting bits are expensive. cad/cam cutting of tool steel is slow with multiple passes and days of operator time. any errors in the cutting means you have to start over. springback, drawing, and stretching may require 2 pass stamping. any plastic part with glass/carbon fiber reinforcement will wear out a die even faster, meaning you need to price in the cost of a new die as part of the run.]
i have seen a quote for 200M for retooling for a body refresh.

a pc case is maybe a dozen large die stamp/bent parts and some plastic faceplate. the tooling costs for a cheap case goes in the 100k-200k range. one of the reason you see so many knock off rebranded cases is because the original client didnt want to pay for the full price to own the tooling dies to keep the factory in china from selling the design to another brand. they dont own the die so the factory can sell the parts with a few mods and a new faceplate to any of their competitors.
 
No door handles on the Cybertruck. Not sure how I feel about this:

1. I don't like relying 100% on electronics with no mechanical backup. Have had multiple bad experiences with this.
2. If you get in an accident & the power is lost, how do you get out? iirc Tesla vehicles don't have a door handle, just a button
3. If you get in an accident & someone tries to save you from the outside, how do they get in? Especially since the glass is reinforced.

Also, what happens if you get in an accident, like if you get rear-ended? How are repairs handled? Love the concept of the truck, going to have to see how the details play out. I also want to test the yoke, as mentally I prefer a wheel design because I tend to drive with my left arm on the window sill & my left hand on top of the wheel most of the time, and also use the top of the wheel for turning a lot, so I don't know if the Knight Rider-style yoke design would be for me without testing it IRL.

electrek.co

Elon Musk teases Tesla Cybertruck update: 'There will be no handle'

Tesla is due to unveil the updated version of its Cybertruck, and Elon Musk decided to give a small teaser...
electrek.co electrek.co
 
Hasn't this been tried before and there was problems where the vehicle couldn't pop the door during winter with ice over the door?
 
rstrohkirch said:
Hasn't this been tried before and there was problems where the vehicle couldn't pop the door during winter with ice over the door?
Click to expand...

My buddy has a Model 3 with the door handles that pop out. They freeze in the winter time. Not his video but here is the problem in action:


The door-handle system has been the blame of at least one death:

www.autonews.com

Tesla’s futuristic door handles blamed for death in fiery wreck

A Florida police officer couldn’t open the doors of the Tesla Model S because the handles were retracted and bystanders watched helplessly as the car filled with smoke and flames, according to the wrongful death lawsuit.
www.autonews.com www.autonews.com

Yeah, that's not how I want to go out:

A police officer couldn’t open the doors because the handles were retracted and bystanders watched helplessly as the car filled with smoke and flames, according to the complaint, which alleges the fire originated with the car’s battery.

“Fire engulfed the car and burned Dr. Awan beyond recognition -- all because the Model S has inaccessible door handles, no other way to open the doors, and an unreasonably dangerous fire risk,” according to the Oct. 10 suit. The complaint lists the cause of death as smoke inhalation and states that Awan had sustained no internal injuries or broken bones in the crash.
Click to expand...

All because Musk insisted on it:

The genesis of the door handles was noted in a Wired magazine cover story about Tesla CEO Elon Musk, who insisted on them even though it "was unanimous among the executive staff that the complex door handle idea was crazy," a former executive told Wired in the story posted in December 2018.

The door handle innovation "required incredibly complicated engineering, and it solved a problem that no one else thought was actually a problem. But no matter how forcefully executives objected, Musk wouldn’t yield," the article said.
Click to expand...

Caveat emptor!
 
Seems pretty weak. Don't all cars not open from the outside when the car is locked? How do first responders open the door with every other car out there? Break the glass?
 
rstrohkirch said:
Hasn't this been tried before and there was problems where the vehicle couldn't pop the door during winter with ice over the door?
Click to expand...
Not a big deal. If you preheat the car for like 10-15 minutes, ice will melt from the frozen door handles and charge ports. If it's that cold to freeze the car, you'll want to preheat the car anyway before you get in to make the car nice and warm inside. Bjorn lives in Norway and they deal with snow and ice all the time.

 
ponyo said:
Not a big deal. If you preheat the car for like 10-15 minutes, ice will melt from the frozen door handles and charge ports. If it's that cold to freeze the car, you'll want to preheat the car anyway before you get in to make the car nice and warm inside. Bjorn lives in Norway and they deal with snow and ice all the time.

Click to expand...

That’s not very green. The best way to warm a vehicle is by driving it, electric included. Provide work with the expelled energy. I typically start the car, scrape the windshield, by then it’s been 1-2 minutes and I’m on the road. Surely Tesla could warm the handles and door so that they would be ready to use in under a minute so you’re not wasting power will a full warmup before driving. That power still comes from somewhere and is wasted.
 
heymrdj said:
That’s not very green. The best way to warm a vehicle is by driving it, electric included. Provide work with the expelled energy. I typically start the car, scrape the windshield, by then it’s been 1-2 minutes and I’m on the road. Surely Tesla could warm the handles and door so that they would be ready to use in under a minute so you’re not wasting power will a full warmup before driving. That power still comes from somewhere and is wasted.
Click to expand...

EVs don't generate significant waste heat like ICE that can be scavenged for cabin heat - driving or not, you'll use more power running heat.
 
jlee said:
EVs don't generate significant waste heat like ICE that can be scavenged for cabin heat - driving or not, you'll use more power running heat.
Click to expand...

I wasn’t referring to cabin heat. Strictly temperature for full operation. Just like you shouldn’t hammer down on an engine with cold oil, an EV won’t let you pull full power from an excessively cold battery. It’s more efficient use of power to warm the battery via gentle driving power consumption than to simply warm the coolant loop via a non-tractive wave form to the motors.
 
Kaido said:
The door-handle system has been the blame of at least one death:

www.autonews.com

Tesla’s futuristic door handles blamed for death in fiery wreck

A Florida police officer couldn’t open the doors of the Tesla Model S because the handles were retracted and bystanders watched helplessly as the car filled with smoke and flames, according to the wrongful death lawsuit.
www.autonews.com www.autonews.com

Yeah, that's not how I want to go out:
Click to expand...

This sounds more like an incompetent cop than a design issue. Many modern cars auto lock by default when driving. Break the window to access the manual release in the door. Problem solved.
 
quikah said:
This sounds more like an incompetent cop than a design issue. Many modern cars auto lock by default when driving. Break the window to access the manual release in the door. Problem solved.
Click to expand...

What about the Armor Glass on the Cybertruck?

1617140316228.png
 
Cybertruck is in NYC this weekend at the Tesla showroom in lower Manhattan:

https://www.reddit.com/r/cybertruck/comments/n7awkr/the_cybertruck_prototype_is_in_new_york_tesla/

I had plans to be in the city today anyway so I will be stopping by. I looked up my order number today apparently I ordered sooner after the reveal than I remembered. Only two days and I'm still ~178k deep. Thanks to the pandemic though I didn't buy a Y so I'm ready for Cybertruck to show up before we start driving again.

Viper GTS
 
Viper GTS said:
Cybertruck is in NYC this weekend at the Tesla showroom in lower Manhattan:

https://www.reddit.com/r/cybertruck/comments/n7awkr

I had plans to be in the city today anyway so I will be stopping by. I looked up my order number today apparently I ordered sooner after the reveal than I remembered. Only two days and I'm still ~178k deep. Thanks to the pandemic though I didn't buy a Y so I'm ready for Cybertruck to show up before we start driving again.

Viper GTS
Click to expand...

I wanted to stop by today but got swamped with work, do you know how long it's going to be there for? I'd really love to see it in person & get a feel for the size & in-person presence!
 
I'm still amazed at how much I've grown to like it. The reveal was WOOF but then my brain got onboard with the design and was like AWW YEAH UGLY FUTURE TECH YO!! Hahahaha.

1620499783950.png

1620499804797.png
 
Kaido said:
I wanted to stop by today but got swamped with work, do you know how long it's going to be there for? I'd really love to see it in person & get a feel for the size & in-person presence!
Click to expand...

'Through Sunday' is the rumor, no idea what time that means. It looks like there are lines to get in (no surprise there).

During the reveal I legitimately thought it was a joke. I expected them to roll out a far more normal looking vehicle and laugh at us all for being so gullible. I was seriously WTF when it just ended and that's what it was. Once I started thinking about it though the lack of paint to worry about and the overall value range/performance per $ etc I came around pretty quickly. If I'm honest I'd rather have a Rivian but the demonstrated value retention of Tesla combined with the Supercharger network makes it a hard sell to buy anything but a Tesla at this point. Aside from sports cars there really isn't anything I would buy right now that isn't made by Tesla. All daily driver type ICE cars are essentially obsoleted.

Viper GTS
 
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