Terror Investigation in the US and overseas - why different results?

OptiQ

Banned
Oct 12, 2001
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We've already heard about several terror plots that were foiled in Europe after September 11th.

It seems strange that none were foiled here, in the US. Or we are just not being told for some reason?

Any thoughts?
 

Lucky

Lifer
Nov 26, 2000
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I've heard of several here, though only one comes to my mind immediately....they found a suitcase full of explosives and blasting caps in a (subway?) terminal, though I dont remember which city.. (phili? atlanta?)
 

OptiQ

Banned
Oct 12, 2001
154
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<< I've heard of several here, though only one comes to my mind immediately....they found a suitcase full of explosives and blasting caps in a (subway?) terminal, though I dont remember which city.. (phili? atlanta?) >>

This was not produced by investigation though. That suitcase was unclaimed for two weeks in a locker...
 

b0mbrman

Lifer
Jun 1, 2001
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I think they're not telling about actual plots they're foiling but bad guys they're catching...if you'll recall, we've detained lots of suspects...
 

OptiQ

Banned
Oct 12, 2001
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<< I think they're not telling about actual plots they're foiling but bad guys they're catching...if you'll recall, we've detained lots of suspects... >>

Yes, but those people are not talking...
 

BaliBabyDoc

Lifer
Jan 20, 2001
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<< I think they're not telling about actual plots they're foiling but bad guys they're catching...if you'll recall, we've detained lots of suspects... >>

Yes, but those people are not talking...

primarily b/c less than 1% of the detainees are actually considered significantly material according to AG Ashcroft . . . so what do they have to talk about?
 

tcsenter

Lifer
Sep 7, 2001
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<< primarily b/c less than 1% of the detainees are actually considered significantly material according to AG Ashcroft . . . so what do they have to talk about? >>

Well, that would be a stupid thing for Ashcroft to say if it were true. "We're detaining a lot of people who have little or no information to offer this investigation."

I'm sure Ashcroft said something, but it wasn't THAT.
 

BaliBabyDoc

Lifer
Jan 20, 2001
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Yes, I'm glad you are SURE he said SOMETHING. To date over 800 people have been detained in the immediate aftermath of WTC disaster. Many have been released without charges. Hundreds are still in custody in Manhattan (primarily immigration charges) but only 4 to 5 are considered significant material witnesses if not co-conspirators. My comments were in reference to AG statements on CNN but here is the best I could find on the web:

(Bloomberg, I think)FBI director Mueller during press conference with AG 9/13: He denied reports, however, that the FBI had made any arrests, instead saying that in the process of investigating, the agency had found people "out of status" who had been detained on immigration charges.

(SF Chronicle from Washington Post10/22): More than 150 people rounded up by law enforcement officials in the aftermath of the attacks remain in custody, but attention has focused on four suspects held in New York who the FBI believes are withholding valuable information.

The four key suspects, held in New York's Metropolitan Correctional Center, are Zacarias Moussaoui, a French Moroccan detained in August after he sought lessons in Minnesota on how to fly commercial jetliners but not takeoffs or landings; Mohammed Jaweed Azmath and Ayub Ali Khan, Indians traveling with false passports who were detained the day after the World Trade Center and Pentagon attacks with box cutters, hair dye and $5,000 in cash; and Nabil Al- Marabh, a former Boston cabdriver with alleged links to al Qaeda

Ashcroft search discovered (www.ashcroftlied.com) basically liberal-rant:
Republicans Illegally Censor Critics of Ashcroft's Police State Plans from C-SPAN
25-Sep-01
Civil liberties
Speaking to the House Judiciary Committee last Monday, John Ashcroft demanded massive infringements on civil liberties. Ashcroft's demands included: indefinite detention of aliens, use of illegal evidence in trial, secret court authorization for wiretaps, access to users' Internet information without a court order and authority to review telephone voice-mail messages with only a search warrant. All of this was covered by TV cameras from C-SPAN and other networks. But when Democrats called civil liberties and free-speech advocates to testify from the ACLU and PFAW, "the committee?s Republican staff ordered camera crews to leave, including those of C-SPAN." This is outrageous! Call Tom DeLay (202-224-3121) and tell him to stop attacking - and censoring - our civil liberties. And call C-SPAN on the Democrats line at (202) 737-0001 to complain about accepting censorship by Republicans!

Our Civil Liberties May Depend on Bob Barr
25-Sep-01
Civil liberties
Rep. Bob Barr (R-GA) is a hyopcrite on sex and abortion, but he may be the only genuine conservative on civil liberties and limiting the powers of big government. He directly challenged John Ashcroft's efforts to rush through legislation eliminating key civil liberties. "Why is it necessary to rush this through? Does it have anything to do with the fact that the department has sought many of these authorities on numerous other occasions, has been unsuccessful in obtaining them, and now seeks to take advantage of what is obviously an emergency situation to obtain authorities that it has been unable to obtain previously?" In the Senate, the only genuine conservative seems to be Mike Dewine (R-OH). If your Senator or Representative is a conservative Republican, call them (202-224-3121) and tell them true conservatism means stopping John Ashcroft from taking away our freedom!

 

tcsenter

Lifer
Sep 7, 2001
18,943
571
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<< More than 150 people rounded up by law enforcement officials in the aftermath of the attacks remain in custody, but attention has focused on four suspects held in New York who the FBI believes are withholding valuable information. >>

So these are really seperate issues; immigration violations, and suspicion of being part of or party to the terrorist plot. That helps clear things up.
 

BaliBabyDoc

Lifer
Jan 20, 2001
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So these are really seperate issues; immigration violations, and suspicion of being part of or party to the terrorist plot. That helps clear things up.

Actually, that is the problem. To everyone except DOJ the issues are separate. But Ashcroft fervently believes the ability to detain in the absence of evidence of criminal activity is a vital tool in the anti-terror campaign. Many of the "rounded-up" were detected through phone records or some other association with the terrorists. The tally was so large b/c DOJ has gone after 3rd and 4th level contacts. Immigration violators are not being promptly deported or released pending deportation b/c DOJ considers them guilty by any association, hence it is likely they know something even if there is no evidence to support that supposition.
 

ToBeMe

Diamond Member
Jun 21, 2000
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<< Actually, that is the problem. To everyone except DOJ the issues are separate. But Ashcroft fervently believes the ability to detain in the absence of evidence of criminal activity is a vital tool in the anti-terror campaign >>


By law, the Government is well within their means detaining any person thought to be connected in any way to any acts of war upon the US for an indefinate period of time...........The US and most other countries have used laws such as this throughout history and if you would recall, the FBI said this law would be in effect and used shortly after the Sept. 11th attacks. The Gov. also has the power to enable Marshall Law, and will if we would be attacked again in the same manner has Sept. 11th. This was last put into use during WWII after Pearl was attacked.

As for foiled attempts inside the US since the 11th, it was reported that up to four hi-jackings were prevented in the weeks that followed, the US intelligence also had a role in foiling 3 of the attempts made overseas, and as Ashcroft stated, who knows how many others were not even attempted due to the tighter security. They do know that several reports have been made of threats since the 11th by the CIA & FBI, none of which has been successful.....
 

mastertech01

Moderator Emeritus Elite Member
Nov 13, 1999
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A few other factors...

Many other countries are not nearly as racially diverse as our country is. We have people from all walks of life, from every nation in the world and middle eastern people do not stand out nearly as much as they would in some other nations. We have a much greater population than most other of those countries as well and those other nations for the most part have stricter control over thier people and access to thier borders.

We are not allowed to use torture, drugs, etc. to get information and force people to reveal what they know.