DragonMasterAlex
Banned
Hey, we knew this 3 years ago, what does it have to do with Terri Schiavo? 🙂
Jason
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Terri Schiavo
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Hey, we knew this 3 years ago, what does it have to do with Terri Schiavo? 🙂
Jason
DragonMasterAlex
Banned
As a matter of fact I HAVE read about it and I understand MARRIAGE quite well. It is ABSOLUTELY her husband's place to make these decisions for her when she is unable to do so for herself. If there is a bigot here you had better find them, because it most assuredly isn't me. And I'll thank you very much to state your opinion all you want, but I'll continue to insult Christian HYPOCRITES at every damn turn they deserve it (which is pretty damn OFTEN the past several years!)
Jason
Darkhawk28
Diamond Member
Big government = being in our bedrooms and in our family's health decisions.
DragonMasterAlex
Banned
I still would not pursue leaving her in this condition. What I WOULD do is use the case as a reason to lobby for congress to repair the faulty legislation that leads to a scenario where a Vegetable in her condition can't be put down humanely.
Jason
DragonMasterAlex
Banned
OK, fair enough 🙂
Jason
Thanks for the positive feedback.
The man clearly has a level head on his shoulders. He understood long, long ago that the woman he married was gone. The only thing he could hold on to was the goal of seeing her wish fulfilled.
What disgusts me is the hypocrisy. The modern Republican Party has always been about states rights. However, a recent shift has been for federal guidelines and standards. Now they want to take a family matter and move it into the same courts used to try international drug lords and multinational corporations? Phoey! These are also the same people that constantly comment on the power and strength of the family bond, and who immortalize the relationship between a married man and woman? What good are these bonds if these same bureaucrats undercut that sanctity? Phoey!
I think the real problem is that ?social conservative? and ?Republican? are contradicting terms. A true Republican holds that personal and economic freedoms are highly important doctrines. Oppression and government bureaucracy are social evils that should be fought. Basically, they have a ?hands off? approach to government. Social conservatives, on the other hand, tend to use religious doctrine in their life. They believe that there should be rules and laws that follow and enforce religious teachings: no same-sex marriage, no abortion, no adultery, no working on Sundays, etc...
So the question we have to ask ourselves is how do these two completely differing ideologies mix? They don?t. As soon as you become a socially conservative Republican, you stop being a Republican. You?re something else in sheep?s clothing. Now, it makes perfect sense for the hypocrisy.
Unless somebody keeps a personal diary, a significant portion of that person's views and wishes are never going to make it onto paper. However, it doesn't mean that this person hasn't shared their view with others.
Terri told her husband after watching something on TV involving someone else in a PVS that she didn?t ever want to be like that. She repeated the same statement in front of others, too. It may have been conveyed spur of the moment, without great forethought or planning, but it was stated regardless. To dismiss it just because it?s not on an official document, signed, sealed and registered is foolish.
It?s a question of which is the lesser evil. You claim that life, no matter how degraded it is, its preferable. Many others feel the same. To others, this is not the case. They feel that living life like that is a perversion of nature, that it is a living nightmare. It?s a burden upon others, even if those people are willing to accept the burden.
Preferably, many of those same compassionate liberals feel that Terri should be euthanized. Unfortunately, the same people who wish to keep her alive have banned euthanization for humans, claiming its murder. So by following those rules, the only other method is starvation.
Starvation and dehydration, as you point out, are bad things. However, people in comas, PVS and many other diseases which do not respond to those conditions in the same way as you or I, do not feel hunger pains; they do not feel an unquenched thirst. They simply become weak, dizzy and disoriented. They eventually pass away quietly; it?s not so different from hypothermia.
The areas of brain that respond to these symptoms are missing in Terri. So she will not become dizzy; she will not become disoriented. She will simply slow down.
My grandfather, who died of starvation due to cancer of the esophagus, did so very peacefully. It was very upsetting, but he was in no pain; just some mild discomfort. He was fully aware and sharp as a tack up to the very end. He died quietly in his sleep.
Florida has a very narrowly defined statute, which is understandable given that laws need absolute clarity. Many medical journals use a more broadly defined definition of PVS. The Florida statute uses consciousness versus unconsciousness as a base prerequisite; medical journals and guides use items such as self-awareness and mental capacity.
So what you should really be saying is "Myth: Terri is in a PVS as per Florida Statue 765.101, which defines PVS in the State of Florida".
ShadowBlade
Diamond Member
YA!
catnap1972
Platinum Member
SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
You'll be called a godless commie leftist murderer by "you-know-who" 😉
She has been in this state for over 15 years. She lives if you can call it that in the town next to mine and it is just making me sick to hear her parents talking about how she may come out and talk again. Mom, Dad I have been a Veggie for 15 years not spoken a word to anybody and you think I will wake up and talk. Please wake up. I can't even ponder how the Govt can even get in to this. It is between the Husband and the Parents. It had nothing to do with George W. or his Lil Bro Jeb. There are many many Dr.'s who will tell you in no uncertain terms that what her mom and dad are saying won't happen. Just let the poor woman die in peace. I have to love the people who have been comming to her Hospice house bringing Bread and Water. This is the main reason that I will be making a living will if i get to be like her please take me out back and shoot me.
Will G.
Will G.
BadNewsBears
Diamond Member
I really dont understand the fuss, its her family's decision. MY grandpa had a clot in his lung and went brain dead. Waited a few days. Went through a mri or something like that and he was putting out 1/4 of what a normal brain did. Pulled his air and he almost died but kept breathing for 8 days. Sucks, but why keep them all vegged out. Its gross.
BadNewsBears
Diamond Member
His wife is vegged. Shut up. Pull the water and let her be gone in 3-4 days.
This is pulled out of one of the reponses from the link vmens posted:
Hello, I?m a nurse anesthetists and work in Birmingham, Alabama. I live in the Bible belt, born and raised a Christian and I consider myself VERY conservative on politcal issues.
What Cerbrocrat has said, and what Jeremy has just said above me in a more technical sense, is right on point. This woman?s brain is SEVERLY damaged; the cerebral cortex is almost completely gone.
There is not a medication, therapy or experimental science that will ever change her condition. Like an arm or leg that has been amputated, the body can live without parts of the brain, but it will never regenerate. The only problem with my analogy is that although a person can actually function without an arm or leg, that?s not the case without a brain. There?s no such thing as a cortex prosthesis. She will be this way for the rest of her life.
I make my political and religious stance for a reason, that this is not a political issue; even if it has been made into one. This whole argument is about one single point, whether she would have wanted to live like this. Her husband (and some others) has said that she would not; her family says that she would. If all of you honestly were true to yourself, I would be willing to wager that at least 90% of you would say you wouldn?t want to live this way. Every person I have talked to, even the ones who have objected to letting Mrs. Schiavo die, have said they personally wouldn?t want to live like that. I know of dozens of family, friends, and co-workers who have just recently or are about to put this very thing into writing. Attorneys may end up the big winner when this is all said and done, but I digress.
The point here is that so many people would never want this for themselves, but somehow they want it for Terri and assume Terri would want to live like this. To me this is crueler than letting her die. I believe it is for the family?s own selfish reasons not to let her go, not the husband. If the husband wanted to be selfish, he would have been better suited to take the money and run 14 years ago, divorced her, walked away and just let here parents think he was an a$$. The money is all gone now, only about 50 grand remains, so what is his motivation at this point? To be the most hated person in America? It just doesn?t make sense unless he truly believes there is no hope for her and he knows she wouldn?t want to live this way.
I was asked today by a gentleman, ?If it were your daughter, would you let her go.? I said yes and he responded with, ?well, then you don?t love her.? I said, ?Sir, it is because I do love her that I would want her to go home and be with the Lord, not suffer here on earth.?
As a parent it is only human nature to want your children to outlive you; I know I want mine to outlive me. But people have to put aside their own selfish wants to realize what is best for their child, and what that child would truly want in a situation like this.
So put aside all the conspiracy theories, the selfish motivations, the moral and emotional arguments and ask yourself, would you want to live like this??and then ask yourself, do you honestly think Terri would?
Interesting POV. I suspected as much, but I didnt think I'd see anyone spell it out so articulately.
Hello, I?m a nurse anesthetists and work in Birmingham, Alabama. I live in the Bible belt, born and raised a Christian and I consider myself VERY conservative on politcal issues.
What Cerbrocrat has said, and what Jeremy has just said above me in a more technical sense, is right on point. This woman?s brain is SEVERLY damaged; the cerebral cortex is almost completely gone.
There is not a medication, therapy or experimental science that will ever change her condition. Like an arm or leg that has been amputated, the body can live without parts of the brain, but it will never regenerate. The only problem with my analogy is that although a person can actually function without an arm or leg, that?s not the case without a brain. There?s no such thing as a cortex prosthesis. She will be this way for the rest of her life.
I make my political and religious stance for a reason, that this is not a political issue; even if it has been made into one. This whole argument is about one single point, whether she would have wanted to live like this. Her husband (and some others) has said that she would not; her family says that she would. If all of you honestly were true to yourself, I would be willing to wager that at least 90% of you would say you wouldn?t want to live this way. Every person I have talked to, even the ones who have objected to letting Mrs. Schiavo die, have said they personally wouldn?t want to live like that. I know of dozens of family, friends, and co-workers who have just recently or are about to put this very thing into writing. Attorneys may end up the big winner when this is all said and done, but I digress.
The point here is that so many people would never want this for themselves, but somehow they want it for Terri and assume Terri would want to live like this. To me this is crueler than letting her die. I believe it is for the family?s own selfish reasons not to let her go, not the husband. If the husband wanted to be selfish, he would have been better suited to take the money and run 14 years ago, divorced her, walked away and just let here parents think he was an a$$. The money is all gone now, only about 50 grand remains, so what is his motivation at this point? To be the most hated person in America? It just doesn?t make sense unless he truly believes there is no hope for her and he knows she wouldn?t want to live this way.
I was asked today by a gentleman, ?If it were your daughter, would you let her go.? I said yes and he responded with, ?well, then you don?t love her.? I said, ?Sir, it is because I do love her that I would want her to go home and be with the Lord, not suffer here on earth.?
As a parent it is only human nature to want your children to outlive you; I know I want mine to outlive me. But people have to put aside their own selfish wants to realize what is best for their child, and what that child would truly want in a situation like this.
So put aside all the conspiracy theories, the selfish motivations, the moral and emotional arguments and ask yourself, would you want to live like this??and then ask yourself, do you honestly think Terri would?
Interesting POV. I suspected as much, but I didnt think I'd see anyone spell it out so articulately.
I really don't mind either way..
But if the parents and her sister are willing to take care of her, why not allow them to?
The husband has another family and thats fine, if the people taking care of her still want to have her around, brain damaged or not, let them..
Not sure on the facts either, but doesn't the husband benefit when you finally dies?
But if the parents and her sister are willing to take care of her, why not allow them to?
The husband has another family and thats fine, if the people taking care of her still want to have her around, brain damaged or not, let them..
Not sure on the facts either, but doesn't the husband benefit when you finally dies?
CycloWizard
Lifer
Did you ever stop to think that might be what he wants? You're so arrogant as to think that your own personal views on life sustenance are the only valid ones? Maybe you should try thinking before you so readily mock someone else for their own views, since you're obviating the fact that he's probably thought about this issue a lot more than you have.
0roo0roo
No Lifer
the facts🙂
its sad that rip and others keep insinuating ms is an evil man for not divorcing her. as if it is somehow a moral good to disregard the wishes of your beloved spouse to not be left in such a state. to placate the deluded and rather selfish wishes of some deluded family members who don't seem to care what kind of so called life their daughter really is really living.
not to mention the hipocirsy of those that are hacking away at medicaid and of course malpractice lawsuits which help support her massive bills😛
CaptnKirk
Lifer
Judge doesn't order Schiavo's feeding tube reinserted
While I agree starving someone isn't very humane, it's not as bad as keeping her alive especially if it's against her wishes. Give it up already.
CaptnKirk
Lifer
A Vast Right Wing Conspiricy . . . How the Bush's and their GOP Party Meddling brough this to the Federal Level
Hillary told you so . . .
<CLIP>
When a judge set last Friday as the deadline for removing Terri Schiavo's feeding tube, Ken Connor, a Florida trial lawyer and prominent Christian conservative who represented Gov. Jeb Bush of Florida on this issue, decided to appeal to a higher power, Congress.
He turned to an old acquaintance, Representative Dave Weldon, a Florida Republican and doctor, in a long-shot effort to persuade Congress to intervene. Convicted murderers have more chances to appeal to the federal courts than patients who are incapacitated, Mr. Connor argued.
"Don't we want to accord the same protections to the handicapped and disabled that we do to death row inmates?" he asked.
That was three weeks ago. The plans hatched by Mr. Connor and Dr. Weldon eventually snowballed into Congress's marathon weekend session, resulting in the recall of more than 260 members of the House from their spring vacations to try to preserve the life of one brain-damaged woman who has spent 15 years unable to speak, feed herself or move much more than her eyes.
Their success was the culmination of a two-year campaign by social conservatives who had been building support for the cause, along with the diligent efforts of Ms. Schiavo's parents and brother. Senator Mel Martinez, a newly elected Republican of Florida who is Mr. Connor's former college roommate, also played an influential role.
Senate Democrats were helpful as well. Some were reticent about opposing the Schiavo measure because of the highly charged emotions surrounding it. But Senator Tom Harkin, the Iowa Democrat who is an author of the Americans With Disabilities Act, pressed hard for the measure and helped to assuage the states' rights concerns of other Democrats, and the Senate Democratic leader, Harry Reid of Nevada, ultimately supported the bill as well.
Equally important were the last-minute decisions of two of the most powerful Republicans on Capitol Hill - the Senate leader, Bill Frist, and the House leader, Tom DeLay - each of whom threw the full weight of their offices behind the effort.
On Friday, as the leaders of both chambers scrambled to try to stop the removal of Ms. Schiavo's feeding tube, Mr. DeLay, a Texas Republican, turned his attention to social conservatives gathered at a Washington hotel and described what he viewed as the intertwined struggle to save Ms. Schiavo, expand the conservative movement and defend himself against accusations of ethical lapses.
"One thing that God has brought to us is Terri Schiavo, to help elevate the visibility of what is going on in America," Mr. DeLay told a conference organized by the Family Research Council, a conservative Christian group. A recording of the event was provided by the advocacy organization Americans United for Separation of Church and State.
"This is exactly the issue that is going on in America, of attacks against the conservative movement, against me and against many others," Mr. DeLay said.
Mr. DeLay complained that "the other side" had figured out how "to defeat the conservative movement," by waging personal attacks, linking with liberal organizations and persuading the national news media to report the story. He charged that "the whole syndicate" was "a huge nationwide concerted effort to destroy everything we believe in."
The day before, Senator Frist, the Tennessee Republican whose past includes a career as a heart-lung transplant surgeon and whose future might include a run for president, addressed the same group by telephone. Even though the Senate's daylong budget debate kept him at the Capitol, he told the group that he had already talked to a neurologist who had examined Ms. Schiavo. Dr. Frist said he had serious questions about her diagnosis.
"I promise you that I will not leave tonight or tomorrow until we do everything we can and ultimately save the life by preventing the starvation of Terri Schiavo," he said, according to the recording.
Ms. Schiavo is not the first brain-damaged patient to become the subject of national debate. In 1976, a New Jersey court ruled in favor of the removal of a respirator from a brain-damaged women, Karen Ann Quinlan. In 1990, the Supreme Court ruled in the case of Nancy Cruzan that a feeding tube could be withdrawn.
But in Ms. Schiavo's case, unlike those, her condition divides her family. Her parents and her brother, Bobby Schindler, dispute statements by her husband, Michael Schiavo, about her wishes and her doctors' diagnosis that she is in a persistent vegetative state. Her family doggedly publicized her case, disseminating homemade videos over the Internet and elsewhere that appear to show Ms. Schiavo smiling and responding to family members - helping to build sympathy for her.
That effort continued on Monday evening, when the Family Research Council posted on its Web site a recording of a moaning woman it said was Ms. Schiavo responding to her father's voice on Friday afternoon.
In 2003, her plight became a cause in conservative and anti-abortion circles thanks partly to Governor Bush, who ordered doctors not to remove her feeding tube and picked Mr. Connor, a former president of the Family Research Council, to represent him.
By last summer, Ms. Schiavo had become so celebrated among Christian conservatives that her brother was a guest of honor at a rally for Catholics at the Republican National Convention in New York.
Eventually, the National Right to Life Committee worked with Dr. Weldon to sponsor a broad bill that would grant some incapacitated patients certain rights to appeal to federal courts. Two weeks ago, Dr. Weldon asked Mr. Martinez to join him. Mr. Martinez, an ally of Governor Bush's and a former member of President Bush's cabinet, called Mr. Connor the next day.
"Man, why didn't you tell me about this?" Mr. Martinez recalled saying.
At the same time, Dr. Frist had been watching the case from afar. On March 12, he was in Florida to headline a Republican fund-raising dinner, where he ran into a Republican state lawmaker, Daniel Webster, who told him "the only way to slow this down would be at our level," Dr. Frist said Monday.
By this time, Dr. Frist had already reviewed court affidavits and a videotape of Ms. Schiavo, and was troubled, he said. "We're making a decision to pull a tube this week without a clear-cut diagnosis, or what in my mind was a clear-cut diagnosis," he said.
Then, Wednesday morning, Mr. Martinez said, Governor Bush called and delivered the news from Florida's end. "He told me, it is not going to happen here, you need to do what you can."
What followed, over the next several days, was a pointed back-and-forth between the House and the Senate, with friction among Republicans. In the House, Mr. DeLay immediately introduced a version of the Weldon bill. House Democrats declined to try to block the measure, said Representative Barney Frank, Democrat of Massachusetts, because they did not expect the Senate to act.
But Dr. Frist instructed his staff to write a "private relief" bill, directed only at Ms. Schiavo. It passed Thursday with the agreement of Senate Democrats, but only after the House had adjourned. At one point, Dr. Frist said, he called the House speaker, Representative J. Dennis Hastert of Illinois, to tell him "there was absolutely no way," the broader House bill could pass. Dr. Frist also warned the House Republican leadership that he would not agree to adjourn the Congress until the Schiavo matter was resolved - a parliamentary move that, he said, "kept the lights on and the door open."
As tensions festered among Republicans, Democratic aides passed out an unsigned one-page memorandum that they said had been distributed to Senate Republicans. "This is an important moral issue and the pro-life base will be excited that the Senate is debating this important issue," the memorandum said.
Dr. Frist and other Republicans denied having seen the memorandum, and Dr. Frist said he "condemned it as soon as I heard about it."
By Saturday, it became clear that the only option was for the House to approve some version of the Senate bill. Dr. Frist, in New Hampshire for a political event, called Mr. Reid, who was in Jerusalem, to make some minor changes. Ultimately, the House backed down, accepting cosmetic changes to the Senate bill it had opposed, clearing the way for the measure to be approved. The final vote came early Monday, just past midnight.
Barry Lynn, executive director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State, which taped the Family Research Council meeting, said he was appalled. He called the effort "a cynical political ploy" to play to the Republicans' conservative Christian base.
As the debate closed on the House floor, the man who started it all, Dr. Weldon, appeared to have mixed emotions. He said he worried that by limiting the bill to Ms. Schiavo, the Congress had left it vulnerable to legal challenges.
"This," he said, "is what I basically didn't want to do."
Hillary told you so . . .
<CLIP>
When a judge set last Friday as the deadline for removing Terri Schiavo's feeding tube, Ken Connor, a Florida trial lawyer and prominent Christian conservative who represented Gov. Jeb Bush of Florida on this issue, decided to appeal to a higher power, Congress.
He turned to an old acquaintance, Representative Dave Weldon, a Florida Republican and doctor, in a long-shot effort to persuade Congress to intervene. Convicted murderers have more chances to appeal to the federal courts than patients who are incapacitated, Mr. Connor argued.
"Don't we want to accord the same protections to the handicapped and disabled that we do to death row inmates?" he asked.
That was three weeks ago. The plans hatched by Mr. Connor and Dr. Weldon eventually snowballed into Congress's marathon weekend session, resulting in the recall of more than 260 members of the House from their spring vacations to try to preserve the life of one brain-damaged woman who has spent 15 years unable to speak, feed herself or move much more than her eyes.
Their success was the culmination of a two-year campaign by social conservatives who had been building support for the cause, along with the diligent efforts of Ms. Schiavo's parents and brother. Senator Mel Martinez, a newly elected Republican of Florida who is Mr. Connor's former college roommate, also played an influential role.
Senate Democrats were helpful as well. Some were reticent about opposing the Schiavo measure because of the highly charged emotions surrounding it. But Senator Tom Harkin, the Iowa Democrat who is an author of the Americans With Disabilities Act, pressed hard for the measure and helped to assuage the states' rights concerns of other Democrats, and the Senate Democratic leader, Harry Reid of Nevada, ultimately supported the bill as well.
Equally important were the last-minute decisions of two of the most powerful Republicans on Capitol Hill - the Senate leader, Bill Frist, and the House leader, Tom DeLay - each of whom threw the full weight of their offices behind the effort.
On Friday, as the leaders of both chambers scrambled to try to stop the removal of Ms. Schiavo's feeding tube, Mr. DeLay, a Texas Republican, turned his attention to social conservatives gathered at a Washington hotel and described what he viewed as the intertwined struggle to save Ms. Schiavo, expand the conservative movement and defend himself against accusations of ethical lapses.
"One thing that God has brought to us is Terri Schiavo, to help elevate the visibility of what is going on in America," Mr. DeLay told a conference organized by the Family Research Council, a conservative Christian group. A recording of the event was provided by the advocacy organization Americans United for Separation of Church and State.
"This is exactly the issue that is going on in America, of attacks against the conservative movement, against me and against many others," Mr. DeLay said.
Mr. DeLay complained that "the other side" had figured out how "to defeat the conservative movement," by waging personal attacks, linking with liberal organizations and persuading the national news media to report the story. He charged that "the whole syndicate" was "a huge nationwide concerted effort to destroy everything we believe in."
The day before, Senator Frist, the Tennessee Republican whose past includes a career as a heart-lung transplant surgeon and whose future might include a run for president, addressed the same group by telephone. Even though the Senate's daylong budget debate kept him at the Capitol, he told the group that he had already talked to a neurologist who had examined Ms. Schiavo. Dr. Frist said he had serious questions about her diagnosis.
"I promise you that I will not leave tonight or tomorrow until we do everything we can and ultimately save the life by preventing the starvation of Terri Schiavo," he said, according to the recording.
Ms. Schiavo is not the first brain-damaged patient to become the subject of national debate. In 1976, a New Jersey court ruled in favor of the removal of a respirator from a brain-damaged women, Karen Ann Quinlan. In 1990, the Supreme Court ruled in the case of Nancy Cruzan that a feeding tube could be withdrawn.
But in Ms. Schiavo's case, unlike those, her condition divides her family. Her parents and her brother, Bobby Schindler, dispute statements by her husband, Michael Schiavo, about her wishes and her doctors' diagnosis that she is in a persistent vegetative state. Her family doggedly publicized her case, disseminating homemade videos over the Internet and elsewhere that appear to show Ms. Schiavo smiling and responding to family members - helping to build sympathy for her.
That effort continued on Monday evening, when the Family Research Council posted on its Web site a recording of a moaning woman it said was Ms. Schiavo responding to her father's voice on Friday afternoon.
In 2003, her plight became a cause in conservative and anti-abortion circles thanks partly to Governor Bush, who ordered doctors not to remove her feeding tube and picked Mr. Connor, a former president of the Family Research Council, to represent him.
By last summer, Ms. Schiavo had become so celebrated among Christian conservatives that her brother was a guest of honor at a rally for Catholics at the Republican National Convention in New York.
Eventually, the National Right to Life Committee worked with Dr. Weldon to sponsor a broad bill that would grant some incapacitated patients certain rights to appeal to federal courts. Two weeks ago, Dr. Weldon asked Mr. Martinez to join him. Mr. Martinez, an ally of Governor Bush's and a former member of President Bush's cabinet, called Mr. Connor the next day.
"Man, why didn't you tell me about this?" Mr. Martinez recalled saying.
At the same time, Dr. Frist had been watching the case from afar. On March 12, he was in Florida to headline a Republican fund-raising dinner, where he ran into a Republican state lawmaker, Daniel Webster, who told him "the only way to slow this down would be at our level," Dr. Frist said Monday.
By this time, Dr. Frist had already reviewed court affidavits and a videotape of Ms. Schiavo, and was troubled, he said. "We're making a decision to pull a tube this week without a clear-cut diagnosis, or what in my mind was a clear-cut diagnosis," he said.
Then, Wednesday morning, Mr. Martinez said, Governor Bush called and delivered the news from Florida's end. "He told me, it is not going to happen here, you need to do what you can."
What followed, over the next several days, was a pointed back-and-forth between the House and the Senate, with friction among Republicans. In the House, Mr. DeLay immediately introduced a version of the Weldon bill. House Democrats declined to try to block the measure, said Representative Barney Frank, Democrat of Massachusetts, because they did not expect the Senate to act.
But Dr. Frist instructed his staff to write a "private relief" bill, directed only at Ms. Schiavo. It passed Thursday with the agreement of Senate Democrats, but only after the House had adjourned. At one point, Dr. Frist said, he called the House speaker, Representative J. Dennis Hastert of Illinois, to tell him "there was absolutely no way," the broader House bill could pass. Dr. Frist also warned the House Republican leadership that he would not agree to adjourn the Congress until the Schiavo matter was resolved - a parliamentary move that, he said, "kept the lights on and the door open."
As tensions festered among Republicans, Democratic aides passed out an unsigned one-page memorandum that they said had been distributed to Senate Republicans. "This is an important moral issue and the pro-life base will be excited that the Senate is debating this important issue," the memorandum said.
Dr. Frist and other Republicans denied having seen the memorandum, and Dr. Frist said he "condemned it as soon as I heard about it."
By Saturday, it became clear that the only option was for the House to approve some version of the Senate bill. Dr. Frist, in New Hampshire for a political event, called Mr. Reid, who was in Jerusalem, to make some minor changes. Ultimately, the House backed down, accepting cosmetic changes to the Senate bill it had opposed, clearing the way for the measure to be approved. The final vote came early Monday, just past midnight.
Barry Lynn, executive director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State, which taped the Family Research Council meeting, said he was appalled. He called the effort "a cynical political ploy" to play to the Republicans' conservative Christian base.
As the debate closed on the House floor, the man who started it all, Dr. Weldon, appeared to have mixed emotions. He said he worried that by limiting the bill to Ms. Schiavo, the Congress had left it vulnerable to legal challenges.
"This," he said, "is what I basically didn't want to do."
phillyTIM
Golden Member
thank God the Judge has handed down a verdict of reason
now we'll watch as Bush and his fundamentalist juggernauts show us what diehard religious fundamentalist zealots they really are and rally to circumvent the law to force the feeding tube back into Terri. the same Bush who signed a Texas law, as Governor, to remove feeding tubes from those that cannot pay for their health care.
c'mon Bush - show the world what a hypocrite you are
and we'll watch terri's family drag this through court on another appeal where ANOTHER same verdict will come down - remove the tube and preserve the sanctity of marriage.
now we'll watch as Bush and his fundamentalist juggernauts show us what diehard religious fundamentalist zealots they really are and rally to circumvent the law to force the feeding tube back into Terri. the same Bush who signed a Texas law, as Governor, to remove feeding tubes from those that cannot pay for their health care.
c'mon Bush - show the world what a hypocrite you are
and we'll watch terri's family drag this through court on another appeal where ANOTHER same verdict will come down - remove the tube and preserve the sanctity of marriage.
Sysbuilder05
Senior member
DragonMasterAlex
Banned
Which seems kind of strange for a guy who's *convinced* of the existence of heaven. Perhaps he's not so convinced that *he's* gonna get in 🙂
Jason
catnap1972
Platinum Member
You can believe they're feverishly judge shopping at this very moment. Whether or not they can find a fundie before it's too late is yet to be seen.
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