Tennessee Evolution Bill Becomes Law

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monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
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Because I guarantee you that it will be used to teach creationism. The 'strengths and weaknesses' tactic is an old one by creationists. Teachers are already permitted to highlight the strengths and weaknesses of scientific theories so long as they do so in a manner consistent with science and best practices. This is providing an extra layer of protection so that teachers will no longer need to adhere to such standards while critiquing evolution, and it's doing so specifically due to the fact that creationism cannot be argued for using science.

It's just part of a continuing effort by people to force their religion on others.

It's very , very important that teachers must only be allowed to teach what has been previously approved. Teaching anything that has not been previously approved is forbidden! It is forbidden!
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
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The measure allows fundie whacks to introduce creationism as part of the "Teach the controversy" strategy they've adopted, as if there's really any controversy except among the feeble minded.

It's also part & parcel of the Repub bread & circuses routine, obviously with more circuses than bread.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
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Quite possibly. That bill presents a nightmare of interpretation for the courts if any legal action ensues where its meaning is critical. For example, it says teachers can't be prevented from helping students critique scientific theories "in an objective manner." What the hell does that mean?

Might it be thrown out for being too vague? It seems to me that under this bill a teacher can teach basically whatever they want in relation to science so long as they are acting in an 'objective' manner... which will probably cover a whole hell of a lot.

It never ceases to amaze me how committed some people are to teaching fake science in science class.
 

Paul98

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2010
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I understand that science is always changing. What the scientific community rejects today, might be accepted as fact tomorrow.

Since the scientific community is always changing, why shouldn't students be allowed to ask questions?

Why should the scientific community be allowed to force feed our education system, and we blindly accept what we are told?

Every question you have has already been answered. You aren't special, the questions you have, have already been gone over many many times before. Try to understand them, get to the point where there are actual scientific debate.
 

Thump553

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
12,824
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Tennesse, the home of the Scopes monkey trial-I seriously doubt any teacher there would ever be fired for teaching creationism, much more likely the opposite would happen.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
86,554
52,242
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It's very , very important that teachers must only be allowed to teach what has been previously approved. Teaching anything that has not been previously approved is forbidden! It is forbidden!

lol.

Truly freedom is under assault when teachers aren't allowed to push religious creation myths in the classroom under the guise of science. We must liberate our teachers so that they may freely spread false information to students, just the way Jesus intended.

I for one hope that this spreads to other areas of science as well. I have heard that Christian scientists recently refuted the theory of gravity with the amazing creation of 'Intelligent Falling'. Instead of a law of universal attraction we now know that a force is actually pushing everything down. And that force's name is Jesus.

(kudos to The Onion!)
 

Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
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Every question you have has already been answered. You aren't special, the questions you have, have already been gone over many many times before. Try to understand them, get to the point where there are actual scientific debate.

Then there should be no problem with this Tennessee evolution law.

And I seriously doubt every question has already been answered. Just a few weeks ago scientist found a new species of early humanoids. Were does that species fit into the established roadmap of evolution?
 

rudder

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
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Uhmm, isn't that what this bill is about? Protecting teachers who decide to go off and teach 'alternative' theories, ie: creationism?

No it is about allowing them to speak about it. Every year there is testing done for students here in Tennessee called TCAP. A teachers merit pay is based on results of this test. Also many districts are making these results count towards a students final grade. The TCAP tests students knowledge of state standards. Creationism is not a state standard here in Tennessee.

A teacher should stick to the cirriculum... but a teacher should not be deathly afraid if a student asks a question about something dealing with religion.

I agree the bill is poorly written and likely won't end up doing what it is intended... but this is not Scopes revisited by any means. Basically another time waster.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
49,519
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Then there should be no problem with this Tennessee evolution law.

And I seriously doubt every question has already been answered. Just a few weeks ago scientist found a new species of early humanoids. Were does that species fit into the established roadmap of evolution?

Right between the men riding dinosaurs and the great flood I assume.
 

monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
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You never know when there might be a secret cabal of teachers colluding to teach creationism or deny climate change or some other evil knowledge. Just think if there's enough of these evil educators and the students don't talk to their parents, read books, watch television, listen to the radio or surf the net they may never be exposed to the truth laid out by their Board of Education. It would be a travesty! It's good that we prevent such free questioning of dogma in our schools.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
86,554
52,242
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No it is about allowing them to speak about it. Every year there is testing done for students here in Tennessee called TCAP. A teachers merit pay is based on results of this test. Also many districts are making these results count towards a students final grade. The TCAP tests students knowledge of state standards. Creationism is not a state standard here in Tennessee.

A teacher should stick to the cirriculum... but a teacher should not be deathly afraid if a student asks a question about something dealing with religion.

I agree the bill is poorly written and likely won't end up doing what it is intended... but this is not Scopes revisited by any means. Basically another time waster.

Teachers can already speak about creationism in science class so long as they give accurate information.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
86,554
52,242
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You never know when there might be a secret cabal of teachers colluding to teach creationism or deny climate change or some other evil knowledge. Just think if there's enough of these evil educators and the students don't talk to their parents, read books, watch television, listen to the radio or surf the net they may never be exposed to the truth laid out by their Board of Education. It would be a travesty! It's good that we prevent such free questioning of dogma in our schools.

You're right, because students can be exposed to unscientific theories in other locations, we should just teach them pseudoscience in science class.

This is a well thought out, not at all retarded argument.
 

woolfe9999

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2005
7,153
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Might it be thrown out for being too vague? It seems to me that under this bill a teacher can teach basically whatever they want in relation to science so long as they are acting in an 'objective' manner... which will probably cover a whole hell of a lot.

It never ceases to amaze me how committed some people are to teaching fake science in science class.

It seems possible it could be thrown out for violating the establishment clause on the ground that its vagueness opens the door for potentially anything to be taught in the classroom. It's actually quite incredible that a piece of legislation written like this - which could mean absolutely everything or absolutely nothing depending on how it is interpreted - could ever pass into law. It would be less incredible if they passed a law that clearly and unambiguously permits the teaching of "intelligent design" in science class. In their quest to avoid the obvious Constitutional challenge, they have drafted one of the strangest pieces of legislation I have ever read.
 

Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
18,811
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You never know when there might be a secret cabal of teachers colluding to deny climate change

When governments deny certain parts of climate change, why cant students and teachers ask questions?

http://www.chron.com/news/houston-t...ays-state-agency-censored-article-2212118.php

GALVESTON - A long-awaited report on Galveston Bay is being delayed by accusations that Texas' environmental agency deleted references from a scientific article to climate change, people's impact on the environment and sea-level rise.

Schools are supposed to blindly teach scientific facts, when the government sweeps the same facts under the rug?
 

Paul98

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2010
3,732
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Then there should be no problem with this Tennessee evolution law.

And I seriously doubt every question has already been answered. Just a few weeks ago scientist found a new species of early humanoids. Were does that species fit into the established roadmap of evolution?

Show me how that goes against what scientists believe?
 

child of wonder

Diamond Member
Aug 31, 2006
8,307
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If there is something out of line with those sections, I don't see it.

This would seem to allow teachers who don't believe in evolution to openly critique it before the students.

"Well kids, the curriculum says I have to teach you evolution, but I think evolution is hogwash because etc., etc...."
 

Paul98

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2010
3,732
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When governments deny certain parts of climate change, why cant students and teachers ask questions?

http://www.chron.com/news/houston-t...ays-state-agency-censored-article-2212118.php



Schools are supposed to blindly teach scientific facts, when the government sweeps the same facts under the rug?

Because we want our students to be taught what the scientific community thinks, not what a government thinks.

I don't see what is so hard to understand. You teach science in science class. If someone doesn't want to believe it because of some idiotic opinion that's their problem. But don't bring it into the science classroom. If they have questions on the subject at hand ask questions, but they need to remember what they are asking isn't special and isn't going to change the science.
 

CLite

Golden Member
Dec 6, 2005
1,726
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You never know when there might be a secret cabal of teachers colluding to teach creationism or deny climate change or some other evil knowledge. Just think if there's enough of these evil educators and the students don't talk to their parents, read books, watch television, listen to the radio or surf the net they may never be exposed to the truth laid out by their Board of Education. It would be a travesty! It's good that we prevent such free questioning of dogma in our schools.

Creationism is hearsay passed down over a hundred generations. If teachers were colluding to teach hearsay that is a couple thousand years old then I would consider it a travesty. Anyone with two neurons to rub together should consider it at the very least detrimental to the development of child's analytical mind.
 

Paul98

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2010
3,732
199
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This would seem to allow teachers who don't believe in evolution to openly critique it before the students.

"Well kids, the curriculum says I have to teach you evolution, but I think evolution is hogwash because etc., etc...."

That is exactly what I am worried about.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
86,554
52,242
136
It seems possible it could be thrown out for violating the establishment clause on the ground that its vagueness opens the door for potentially anything to be taught in the classroom. It's actually quite incredible that a piece of legislation written like this - which could mean absolutely everything or absolutely nothing depending on how it is interpreted - could ever pass into law. It would be less incredible if they passed a law that clearly and unambiguously permits the teaching of "intelligent design" in science class. In their quest to avoid the obvious Constitutional challenge, they have drafted one of the strangest pieces of legislation I have ever read.

I think the reason why they don't explicitly permit teaching ID in science class is due to Kitzmiller v. Dover which basically banned intelligent design entirely as a form of dressed up creationism. If you've never read the Dover opinion it's pretty entertaining. My favorite part was when the judge cited expert testimony stating that the required disclaimer made kids "stupid".

Sometimes I wonder just how much time was spent by lawyers and legislators in order to draft legislation that would dance around court precedent and still somehow allow the teaching of creationism.
 

child of wonder

Diamond Member
Aug 31, 2006
8,307
176
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It's very , very important that teachers must only be allowed to teach what has been previously approved. Teaching anything that has not been previously approved is forbidden! It is forbidden!

Ridiculous.

I'm sure you'd have no problem with a teacher "teaching the controversy" that the earth isn't round or that we live in a geocentric universe.

Because there's people that actively believe those things and there's nothing stopping them from becoming a teacher in TN and dissenting to established geology and astronomy in front of the students.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
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Then there should be no problem with this Tennessee evolution law.

And I seriously doubt every question has already been answered. Just a few weeks ago scientist found a new species of early humanoids. Were does that species fit into the established roadmap of evolution?

So what? The discovery of unknown species, both ancient & modern, is consistent with science & evolution, both of which allow for a great deal of uncertainty wrt specifics over very long time frames. The roadmaps change with new discoveries, unlike the faith based idea of creationism, which can't change, because facts don't matter in that realm, no matter how much pseudoscience is employed to obfuscate that.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
86,554
52,242
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Ridiculous.

I'm sure you'd have no problem with a teacher "teaching the controversy" that the earth isn't round or that we live in a geocentric universe.

Because there's people that actively believe those things and there's nothing stopping them from becoming a teacher in TN and dissenting to established geology and astronomy in front of the students.

TEACH THE CONTROVERSY. The Ptolemaic system was good enough for 1,500 years until the libruls tossed Jesus out of the solar system and instituted their government indoctrination plans for the sun being the center of the universe for some reason.

If it worked for almost 2,000 years, it clearly is a valid alternative theory. I hope that teachers will not be punished for trying to tell their students that the Earth is the center of the universe.