Tennessee County Expands Its Divisive Subscription Fire Policy

[Zargon]

where have I said that? my last post was point out that if the neighbor had not paid, their house would have burned too.

I think if they're going to provide the service, then do not make it optional. it seems the neighbor was close enough that the fire had spread to their property.

exactly.

why black and white?

we are supposed to be people with intellect. black and white rules are for IQ's under 80 that ride the short bus because you can understand the grey area.

you want, pay for it.

why should this guy ruin it for the rest of the county that happily pays the fee, and now they cant get fire protection because jackass A didnt pay his bill and raised a stink?

We should not lower ourselves to the lowest common logical denominator

 

[her209]

exactly.

why black and white?

we are supposed to be people with intellect. black and white rules are for IQ's under 80 that ride the short bus because you can understand the grey area.

you want, pay for it.

why should this guy ruin it for the rest of the county that happily pays the fee, and now they cant get fire protection because jackass A didnt pay his bill and raised a stink?

We should not lower ourselves to the lowest common logical denominator

Well the county has already tried:

- not giving rural residents the option to pay for the fire service... basically, a you're on your own approach.
- allowing rural residents to pay $500 per occurrence... of that, only half paid up after service was provided...
- allowing rural residents to pay $75 on an annual basis... so if you "forget", you're pretty much fucked as the fire service would not accept per occurrence payments due to non-payments

Woohoo for personal responsibility!

 

[werepossum]

1. Why am I the only one shrugging his shoulders thinking "as long as everyone is safe, let it burn. I have good homeowners insurance, full coverage w/ replacement value. i.e. I'll receive the value of what it costs to replace my clothing with new clothing. Granted, there are a lot of sentimental items that are irreplaceable - pictures, family heirlooms, etc.

2. In the article in the OP, they seem to be trying to make it sound more expensive than I believe it is. $27,000 to equip and train a volunteer firefighter? No friggin way. I'd love to see how they arrived at that figure. What are they doing? Including the cost of the firetrucks? And, about the cost of the firetrucks. Once you divide that cost up over 2 or 3 decades, it's still expensive, but not *that* much. Let's stick 3 firetrucks in the firehall @250k each. 750k total. Over 20 years, that's $37,500 each year. Peanuts compared to what county employees are making in many areas. And, that's not including funds available from the state/federal governments to assist in the purchases.

Also, what seems to have been confused in this issue is that while the original case was a city paid department refusing to put out a fire, they've expanded it to the volunteer fire departments. Ironically, if I had my choice of the local volunteers protecting my property & the nearest paid fire department protecting my property, well, that's pretty laughable. The volunteers in a heartbeat. They fight the fire. The city concentrates on saving the foundation of the building.

Oh well. I'll be at the ham and turkey party at our firehall in a few weeks supporting the local volunteers. Always a great time. I'll continue to get their chicken BBQs 5 or 6 times a year. (NO ONE has better BBQ chicken. I'd love to know how the hell they do it. You can even eat the smaller bones & they're tasty too.) And, I'll rest comfortably knowing that my property is well protected.

For your first point, I agree completely, let it burn. If someone is in danger of death or serious injury, then I'd say the city fire department had an obligation as human beings to try to save them. For your second point, costs are not that simple. Assuming the fire isn't actually in the fire station, your fire engines will need fuel, not only for actual fires but also for training. The best fire engine is of little use without good training. You'll need insurance, in case you T-bone a family car or run over an errant child on the way. You'll need regular maintenance, periodic replacement of consumables, engines and other assemblies rebuilt or replaced. The initial costs of the fire engines are by far not the greatest portion of the costs of a fire department. I also disagree with your choice of fire departments. We have a good local volunteer fire department, but given a choice I'd rather subscribe to a city fire department (were one roughly as close to me) simply because they are already on site and ready to go. With a volunteer fire department, most of the fire fighters are not at the fire hall when an alarm comes in and must first get to the fire hall and suit up before responding.

I'm saying an optional fire service makes no sense and is stupid. Do I not have the right to call them stupid?

Yes, you have that right. Many of us disagree, but whether to mandate fire protection for everyone is a matter of opinion and personal values, and personal situations. If you lived very close to a rambling wooden house that you know isn't subscribed to protection, I suspect you would be in favor of mandatory tax-paid protection. If you were poor and could barely afford a home at all, I suspect you would NOT be in favor of mandatory tax-paid protection, which might be the difference between you owning a home and renting a home.

Great post Pulsar, and I agree totally. Just not quoting for length of my post.

 

[Zargon]

Someday you will be on the end of that end game point.

Then your tune will change.

or just accept that you were wrong and live it instead of blaming 'the system'

like when people hit someone and dont have collision, its the insurance's fault 🙄

he gambled he lost

he now blames the system instead of himself

the #1 problem with society is today is this. the root of it all is people not taking responsiblity for their own faults and errors. its always something else and we have to 'legislate it' to fix it.

own up and move on.

when my garage burn down I didnt have renters on it yet(had only been there 6 weeks, had just put stuff in 2 weeks prior, and it was an electrical fault at the panel that caused it).

so I lost about 2 grand in tools, a motorcycle, a scooter, and other MISC items.

who's fault? mine. did I go after the landlord for it? no, why? because I didnt have insurance, thats not his fault.

he didnt pay his bill, no ones fault but his.

you can not like that its not a taxed service, but that doesnt matter. they voted for it, they got it, he failed to use it properly.

werepossum and pulsar: good posts

Well the county has already tried:

- not giving rural residents the option to pay for the fire service... basically, a you're on your own approach.
- allowing rural residents to pay $500 per occurrence... of that, only half paid up after service was provided...
- allowing rural residents to pay $75 on an annual basis... so if you "forget", you're pretty much fucked as the fire service would not accept per occurrence payments due to non-payments

Woohoo for personal responsibility!

yup.

and I dont see how the current option isnt sufficient, its certainly better than option a. and for b is was less than half

 

[Pulsar]

Someday you will be on the end of that end game point.

Then your tune will change.

Your basic premise that everyone would believe as you do you if they just had your life expereience is fatally flawed. Some of us BELIEVE in personal responsibility, self reliance, and independence. These are qualities that you regularly show a lack of.

I've had catastrophes happen. I've paid for them when they were my fault. I haven't cried for the ever-vigilant angel of big government to swoop down on me and save the day.

Instead of whining about it, I save money. I have safety nets set aside in case of emergencies, and I've invested and diversified as well so that my finances are fairly safe.

I carry insurance on everything I value (including my wife, myself, and children), and I make sure that I'm covered even in cases of acts-of-god.

I don't have cable TV and probably never will. We have a single emergency cell phone that is the size of a brick. We just got rid of our 21 year old car because the engine blew out. We know how to be non-consumers and save for the future.

I feel truly sorry for you. What a life you must have had up to this point to believe that no one needs be responsible for themselves and that everyone else should front the money for a safety net.

 

[Pulsar]

I'm saying an optional fire service makes no sense and is stupid. Do I not have the right to call them stupid?

You are the second liberally-minded individual in this thread to suggest that the people in this region are stupid and wrong for excercising their right to vote and putting people in power who pass laws and ordinances that they want.

Just sayin.

 

[Throckmorton]

You are the second liberally-minded individual in this thread to suggest that the people in this region are stupid and wrong for excercising their right to vote and putting people in power who pass laws and ordinances that they want.

Just sayin.

I'm saying they're stupid for picking a system that came back to bite them in the ass.

 

[Zorkorist]

Your basic premise that everyone would believe as you do you if they just had your life expereience is fatally flawed. Some of us BELIEVE in personal responsibility, self reliance, and independence. These are qualities that you regularly show a lack of.

I've had catastrophes happen. I've paid for them when they were my fault. I haven't cried for the ever-vigilant angel of big government to swoop down on me and save the day.

Instead of whining about it, I save money. I have safety nets set aside in case of emergencies, and I've invested and diversified as well so that my finances are fairly safe.

I carry insurance on everything I value (including my wife, myself, and children), and I make sure that I'm covered even in cases of acts-of-god.

I don't have cable TV and probably never will. We have a single emergency cell phone that is the size of a brick. We just got rid of our 21 year old car because the engine blew out. We know how to be non-consumers and save for the future.

I feel truly sorry for you. What a life you must have had up to this point to believe that no one needs be responsible for themselves and that everyone else should front the money for a safety net.

Ah, the perfect consumer of Government Services.

Sir, may I sell you another?

-John

 

[Zorkorist]

You have given up all form of being a person, and would do well in Communism, where everyone is equal, everyone has insurance, etc.

But you are doing this to yourself.

A perfect, Government consumer.

-John

 

[DrPizza]

I also disagree with your choice of fire departments. We have a good local volunteer fire department, but given a choice I'd rather subscribe to a city fire department (were one roughly as close to me) simply because they are already on site and ready to go. With a volunteer fire department, most of the fire fighters are not at the fire hall when an alarm comes in and must first get to the fire hall and suit up before responding.

Feel free to disagree, but the response time for the volunteer fire departments in the area is often better than the response time for the paid fire department in the nearby city. Example: wind storm, big maple tree fell across the road in front of our house. Called the guy in charge of the roads for our town, he said to call 911 & they'd tone out the fire department. They were there within 3 minutes & had the tree removed & road swept in minutes. This was a big tree; at least 3 feet across at the base.

Barn caught fire at the end of my street. The tones went off. I looked outside & saw the flames. I locked up the stalls in the barn & walked down to the end of the street. Within 15 minutes of the tones going off, the fire was pretty much out. (It was an empty structure.) The entire structure was still standing.

Contrast that to the city fire department. The house BEHIND the fire department caught on fire. By the time they got to the fire & got the hoses hooked up, it was too late. The structure was a 100% loss. Kids died. The house next door was a total loss too. They couldn't even stop the fire from spreading from one house to another.

Another fire for the city department: it was close to my mother's house, so I drove over to make sure she was okay. When I got there, there was just some smoke. The fire was 100% contained within a wall. Zero flames. 30 minutes later, the entire structure was engulfed and they had to call in the volunteers to help. The volunteers attacked the rear of the building and actually got that half of the building under control. The front half: burned to the ground.

"Booooom" "Booooom" I was undressed in bed, wearing only my underwear. Thought "wtf was that" (I used to live close to the river & the sound had echoed down the river valley.) A few minutes later, I heard the fire trucks. Went downstairs (still only wearing my underwear) & turned on the scanner. The fire was a few blocks away. I went back upstairs, got dressed. Left my house & walked to the end of the block. Turned left & walked 2 blocks. Turned left and walked 1 block. At that point, they were *just turning on the first hose that was on the snorkel.* No other lines were pressurized yet.

A few decades ago, it was pretty notorious how they weren't the first on the scene for a major supermarket fire. Because of the structure, the volunteers from 2 or 3 fire departments were called out. First on the scene: volunteer fire department. (The city was pissed, because it was "their" fire.) How far away was the fire station for the city? 3 blocks.


No thanks. The volunteers in my area are top notch. The city - they have a pretty good record of saving basements.

 

[dmcowen674]

Your basic premise that everyone would believe as you do you if they just had your life expereience is fatally flawed. Some of us BELIEVE in personal responsibility, self reliance, and independence. These are qualities that you regularly show a lack of.

I've had catastrophes happen. I've paid for them when they were my fault. I haven't cried for the ever-vigilant angel of big government to swoop down on me and save the day.

Instead of whining about it, I save money. I have safety nets set aside in case of emergencies, and I've invested and diversified as well so that my finances are fairly safe.

I carry insurance on everything I value (including my wife, myself, and children), and I make sure that I'm covered even in cases of acts-of-god.

I don't have cable TV and probably never will. We have a single emergency cell phone that is the size of a brick. We just got rid of our 21 year old car because the engine blew out. We know how to be non-consumers and save for the future.

I feel truly sorry for you. What a life you must have had up to this point to believe that no one needs be responsible for themselves and that everyone else should front the money for a safety net.

and I feel sorry for your family.

They must truly be just as miserable as you.

A 21 yr old car that obviously was a safety issue and death trap, they are obviously lucky to be still alive with the danger you pressed on them in that piece of shit.

I'm sure the kids watch cable at their friends house so they are not around and don't even value you as a parent.

Have to wonder if the kids have pre-paid phones hidden from you because you are such a dolt.

Your safe finances? Yeah right, we all know how safe Wall street turned out to be. I don't believe you, you are clearly lying.

Truly pathetic

 

[dmcowen674]

Oh and you are clearly lying about your brick phone too.

All U.S. networks have transitioned to digital, your analog brick from yesteryear no longer works.

Liar

 

[werepossum]

Feel free to disagree, but the response time for the volunteer fire departments in the area is often better than the response time for the paid fire department in the nearby city. Example: wind storm, big maple tree fell across the road in front of our house. Called the guy in charge of the roads for our town, he said to call 911 & they'd tone out the fire department. They were there within 3 minutes & had the tree removed & road swept in minutes. This was a big tree; at least 3 feet across at the base.

Barn caught fire at the end of my street. The tones went off. I looked outside & saw the flames. I locked up the stalls in the barn & walked down to the end of the street. Within 15 minutes of the tones going off, the fire was pretty much out. (It was an empty structure.) The entire structure was still standing.

Contrast that to the city fire department. The house BEHIND the fire department caught on fire. By the time they got to the fire & got the hoses hooked up, it was too late. The structure was a 100% loss. Kids died. The house next door was a total loss too. They couldn't even stop the fire from spreading from one house to another.

Another fire for the city department: it was close to my mother's house, so I drove over to make sure she was okay. When I got there, there was just some smoke. The fire was 100% contained within a wall. Zero flames. 30 minutes later, the entire structure was engulfed and they had to call in the volunteers to help. The volunteers attacked the rear of the building and actually got that half of the building under control. The front half: burned to the ground.

"Booooom" "Booooom" I was undressed in bed, wearing only my underwear. Thought "wtf was that" (I used to live close to the river & the sound had echoed down the river valley.) A few minutes later, I heard the fire trucks. Went downstairs (still only wearing my underwear) & turned on the scanner. The fire was a few blocks away. I went back upstairs, got dressed. Left my house & walked to the end of the block. Turned left & walked 2 blocks. Turned left and walked 1 block. At that point, they were *just turning on the first hose that was on the snorkel.* No other lines were pressurized yet.

A few decades ago, it was pretty notorious how they weren't the first on the scene for a major supermarket fire. Because of the structure, the volunteers from 2 or 3 fire departments were called out. First on the scene: volunteer fire department. (The city was pissed, because it was "their" fire.) How far away was the fire station for the city? 3 blocks.


No thanks. The volunteers in my area are top notch. The city - they have a pretty good record of saving basements.

LOL Point taken, sometimes the amateurs are better than the pros. Actually that might not even be as rare as I thought. Professional firefighters usually work shifts that are twenty-four hours or longer, so they actually sleep at the station and may have to be awakened and dress. Volunteers often hang out at the fire hall outside their real jobs. So yeah, I can see how in some cases they might be better.

And I'll have to say our local volunteer fire department is pretty good. They responded to a grease fire in my neighborhood, were there in about ten minutes with three big trucks and probably a dozen firefighters. The fire had already been extinguished, but they probably could have saved the house. (Another house did burn almost completely, but it was full of oxygen tanks, can't blame them for that, but they did keep it from spreading.) I don't know if either subscribed to the service.