Tenant pays for heating fuel, how to handle?

[SpatiallyAware]

frankly at that point the Fuel cost should be the LEAST of your worries. i would be more worried about the inside of the house, the plumbing etc.

In the grand scheme of things the inside of the house isn't that bad... Broken doors are $50 to replace, 5-10 holes in walls $100 maybe. Ripping out plumbing is a major chore and blatantly obvious.. I'm not as worried about obvious stuff as I am hidden damage.

Carpet and full repaint are expensive, but that's an assumed cost you should be prepared for, and $2-3k maximum.

Water heaters, fridge, dishwasher, all of these other things are a couple hundred and covered by deposit if required. Even major flood damage isn't *that* terrible, I once had a tenant overflow a toilet then leave for 8 hours... Replacing carpet, downstairs ceiling, some insulation was about $1000 at my cost.

But, if I have to replace the hvac I would have to have hard (IE impossible) proof that the tenants did it. Major HVAC issues are a big deal because you can't have a tenant wait for 3 weeks while you try to fix it.

Truly, having someone 'mess' with the heat and AC is probably my biggest concern as a landlord.

 

[NetWareHead]

I've never heard of heating system sabotage. Sure, it could happen, and I'm sure it probably has somewhere, but it isn't something I'd worry about. It's like buying meteorite insurance for your house. There's a non-zero chance your house will be hit and damaged by a meteorite, but it isn't something I worry about.

I've thought about heating system sabotage re: someone filling up an oil tank with water to fudge the level. For that reason I'm leaning towards propane for heating since the cylinder is sealed and no easy/real way for a tenant to mess with the level. it can only be refilled by the propane man.

On top of that, propane boilers/furnaces tend to run cleaner and require less maintenance/cleaning than oil. This is offset by the fact that propane contains less BTUs per gallon than oil, but if the tenant is paying for the fuel, that is his problem.

 

[sjwaste]

Inertia of the customer. In New England for example, gas is somewhat scarce. I think I was reading something that reported over 60% of NH residents heat with deliverable fuels (oil & propane).

My gf's parents have natural gas available on their street. But guess what, dad just installed a new oil boiler a few years ago. To convert to gas, you need to trench from the street, most of the time at your own expense. Cost of permits, then making a hole in the side of your house and running gas lines etc... Its less expensive in the short run to stay with oil.

Then you need to get a new furnace/boiler. Same with a stove or clothes dryer, most people have electric versions. Propane stovers/dryers exist and can be easily rejetted to a natural gas config. Unfortunately having gas available doesn't mean everyone will covert even when its been available for years.

edit: typo

That's interesting, if it were on my street, I'd convert tomorrow. Maine is the same, most people heat w/ deliverable fuels. That number is holding pretty steady, too, because pellets and coal are on the rise.

If he has a new oil boiler, I believe he could convert. I know that with my boiler, my HVAC guy said I could just replace the diesel gun with a propane gun and convert fuel that way. Efficiency would stay roughly the same, within 1-2%, and the cost would be under $1000 with him doing the work. He didn't see a reason to actually do it, but I was talking about going to all-propane and he mentioned it as an option. I wonder if your dad could do that with NG.

 

[sjwaste]

I've thought about heating system sabotage re: someone filling up an oil tank with water to fudge the level. For that reason I'm leaning towards propane for heating since the cylinder is sealed and no easy/real way for a tenant to mess with the level. it can only be refilled by the propane man.

On top of that, propane boilers/furnaces tend to run cleaner and require less maintenance/cleaning than oil. This is offset by the fact that propane contains less BTUs per gallon than oil, but if the tenant is paying for the fuel, that is his problem.

So go with propane. The tank will be leased anyway, so only one supplier can fill it, unless you want to do a bunch of leg work to buy it and deal with the suppliers who might not fill you.

Fill it before move-in, tell the tenant to have it full when they leave. Call the propane co and explain that you're renting the place, see if they can have you own the account but have billing responsibility in the tenant's name. Then you can keep an eye on it and order the final fill before they move out if you need to. I'm sure Dead River and some of the other bigger companies know how to do this. It's way too common for it not to be already solved.

I have an account with Dead River for my propane and they do seem pretty good, as infrequently as I need to contact them, anyway. See what they want to come out and install a tank, run the lines in, and what a maintenance plan would cost on your equipment.

 

[NetWareHead]

That's interesting, if it were on my street, I'd convert tomorrow. Maine is the same, most people heat w/ deliverable fuels. That number is holding pretty steady, too, because pellets and coal are on the rise.

If he has a new oil boiler, I believe he could convert. I know that with my boiler, my HVAC guy said I could just replace the diesel gun with a propane gun and convert fuel that way. Efficiency would stay roughly the same, within 1-2%, and the cost would be under $1000 with him doing the work. He didn't see a reason to actually do it, but I was talking about going to all-propane and he mentioned it as an option. I wonder if your dad could do that with NG.

I'm sure it could be done as propane and NG are pretty similar and I've seen NG conversions in oil boilers. Its my GF's father and he is pretty stubborn old guy. Her parents are retiring possibly next year and moving back to Europe. I can promise you that he won't trench the property for NG and spend more than he has to. We may buy the property off of him and spend a small sum modernizing it. I think the local gas company (national grid) subsidizes trenching for a new line but if the cost is too much, then we have seriously talked about coal for heat. Oil prices are getting out of control

 

[Bushwicktrini]

Not sure what the heating requirements are where your are at but a lockable/programmable thermostat is the way to go have it set for a night time min/max temp and a day time min/max. When I did boiler work in NYC alot of the landlords had an outdoor sensor that kept the boiler off if it was above 55 outside and above 70 inside.

http://www.heat-timer.com/En/Index.aspx

 

[sjwaste]

I'm sure it could be done as propane and NG are pretty similar and I've seen NG conversions in oil boilers. Its my GF's father and he is pretty stubborn old guy. Her parents are retiring possibly next year and moving back to Europe. I can promise you that he won't trench the property for NG and spend more than he has to. We may buy the property off of him and spend a small sum modernizing it. I think the local gas company (national grid) subsidizes trenching for a new line but if the cost is too much, then we have seriously talked about coal for heat. Oil prices are getting out of control

Back in VA, the gas company hooked people up for free if a line ran up the street and the distance was under 100'. I'm not sure about up here, but I bet the local gas utilities do something similar. I'd call and find out if you might buy the place. If the utility does that, just do it while they're still living there in case that subsidy goes away. I have an uncle who learned a hard lesson about the subsidy going away for hooking up to city water/sewer. He's now the only house on the block with septic/well and he can't sell his home. Utility wants in the 5 figures to hook up.

 

[WilliamM2]

Back in VA, the gas company hooked people up for free if a line ran up the street and the distance was under 100'. I'm not sure about up here, but I bet the local gas utilities do something similar. I'd call and find out if you might buy the place. If the utility does that, just do it while they're still living there in case that subsidy goes away. I have an uncle who learned a hard lesson about the subsidy going away for hooking up to city water/sewer. He's now the only house on the block with septic/well and he can't sell his home. Utility wants in the 5 figures to hook up.

I converted from oil to natural gas back in 2000 when I had a new furnace installed. They charged us $400 to hook the house up to the line. Annual cost of fuel oil was about $1700 back then, natural gas was less than $500. The savings paid for the gas line install AND the new furnace in two years time. Gas is actually a little cheaper now than it was then, and fuel oil continues to rise, anyone who can should convert today.