Tenant Fatally Stabs Teen Burglary Suspect...

[eits]

Originally posted by: Gooberlx2

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: icelazer
I don't know how the whole situation played out, but if you walk into your apartment/home, wake up to, or are startled by someone breaking in, there isn't much reason left in the human brain. My first instinct (as I'm sure most others would be) would probably be "who the #($# are you?" Barring a reasonable response, I don't give a crap whether they're dusting my apartment, stealing crap, or waiting to kill me, my first instinct would be to make sure I'm the one left standing by any means necessary. A gun, a knife, a golf club, a crowbar, whatever it takes. This isn't some stupid mistake that the "kid" made, stupid mistakes are car accidents, doing drugs or drinking, etc. When you decide to break into someone's residence, you get what's coming. It's not a prank, it's not funny, for all the homeowner knows, it's them or you. I feel bad for the homeowner, he's probably going to get sued for this...

also, a good post. you gamble your life when you break into someone's house, because there are obviously people (like many of the people who talk a big game in this thread) who will kill you.

however, that doesn't mean it's ok OR smart.... it's probably the worst choice a homeowner could make, unless the burglar actually has a weapon.

So what do you want the homeowner to do? Introduce himself and ask if they have a weapon? Why the hell would you give up the only advantage you have (surprise) to possibly keep yourself alive ('cause you're not gonna know if they have a weapon) and your property intact? Calling 911 doesn't mean they wouldn't have made their way into wherever he was hiding before the police arrived and killed him. Or that they wouldn't notice him trying to escape the situation and kill him so he couldn't ID them. Like others have said: He didn't know their intentions or just how far they'd go. I know I wouldn't take that chance.

if you honestly think the cops will kill a 17-year-old petty thief?

there's a difference between beating a kid up for stealing your stuff and stabbing him 7 times in the leg. honestly, do you think it's easy to stab an adrenaline-rushed 17-year-old SEVEN times? think about that for a second..... SEVEN FRICKIN' TIMES!

grab a pencil or pen and stab the air seven times. see how easy it is for you to do. i could understand one or two stabs... but SEVEN stabs? if he had all this time to stab the guy that many times, he could have just wrestled him to the ground and beat his ass up and kept him there at knifepoint until the cops arrived.

the kid didn't deserve to die. if you think the cops would have killed him, you're delusional.

 

[Ornery]

...he stabbed a robber to death. was it worth it?

Are you French, or worse... a blue state voter? Talk about being raised right! :roll:

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: Ornery
...he stabbed a robber to death. was it worth it?

Are you French, or worse... a blue state voter? Talk about being raised right! :roll:

I voted BLUE and that has nothing to do with it Ornery. If the kid didn't try to rob the guy, he wouldn't be dead. Tough luck kid. Maybe others will learn from your demise! If you commit a crime, you ALWAYS risk getting injured or killed. Sad that these kids even try.

Maybe if some of them had their asses busted as kids, they wouldn't be doing what they're doing!

 

[StrangerGuy]

Any state or country with sane laws will have you charged for manslaughter if you killed a unarmed and fleeing petty thief. Obviously, some people here can't grasp that concept at all.

 

[Ornery]

"To show you how radical I am, I want carjackers dead. I want rapists dead. I want burglars dead. I want child molesters dead. I want the bad guys dead. No court case. No parole. No early release. I want 'em dead. Get a gun and when they attack you, shoot 'em." - Uncle Ted

 

[Proletariat]

Originally posted by: StrangerGuy
Any state or country with sane laws will you charged for manslaughter if you killed a unarmed and fleeing petty thief. Obviously, some people here can't grasp that concept at all.

It seems to be mainly people from the South and Midwest.

 

[Proletariat]

Originally posted by: Ornery
...he stabbed a robber to death. was it worth it?

Are you French, or worse... a blue state voter? Talk about being raised right! :roll:

Yea talk about being raised right. You have absolutely no honor if you chase after a kid and stab him several times while hes running away. Quoting Ted Nugent only gives us another glimpse into your messed up childhood.

 

[Ornery]

...chase after a kid and stab him several times while hes running away...

Easier death than being locked in a garbage can for several days, which would be my first choice!

 

[Zebo]

I'd be curious to know if any of these ethugs ever stole anything?

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: DougK62

Originally posted by: KillyKillall

Originally posted by: DougK62
The tennant should go to jail for that crap. You use a knife for self defense - you don't chase after a fleeing person. Obviously the kid shouldn't be robbing him, but there was no reason that he had to die.

Reason: He was in someone elses home illegaly....sounds like a good enough reason to me. What's the difference in that and shooting someone that broke into your house in the back?

If you shoot someone in the back you're going to be in a bunch of trouble - even if they are in your house.

Until he's out of your home, he's fair game. You have the right to kill an intruder as long as he's in your home. Once he's out, the law starts changing from state to state.

Mind citing precedent for that? Or even federal law of some sort?

Basically, I'm saying that vigilante justice is a big no-no. The kid deserved maybe to get smacked around a bit, but he didn't deserve to die. I'm all for someone defending themselves and their property from threats. But once there is no longer a threat, you should not have impunity from the law if you decide to seek your own brand of justice to "teach the kid a lesson."

It's touchy. Castle Doctrine applies. Once anyone breaks into your home, you can do absolutely anything to kill them or make them leave. Anything. No matter what. The grey area comes if it's revealed that they were in the process of fleeing (perhaps even partially out of your home) when you landed the killing blow. If he'd stabbed the kid in the house, then he went out a window and died, he's technically fine. This varies from state to state of course, but there is no requirement to flee from your home. Breaking into a home is defined as an aggressive act, inherently. Breaking into a house is as much of an attack as trying to hit someone with a club.

example from Washington:
RCW 9A.16.050
Homicide -- By other person -- When justifiable.

Homicide is also justifiable when committed either:

(1) In the lawful defense of the slayer, or his or her husband, wife, parent, child, brother, or sister, or of any other person in his presence or company, when there is reasonable ground to apprehend a design on the part of the person slain to commit a felony or to do some great personal injury to the slayer or to any such person, and there is imminent danger of such design being accomplished; or

(2) In the actual resistance of an attempt to commit a felony upon the slayer, in his presence, or upon or in a dwelling, or other place of abode, in which he is.

Residential burglary is generally a class B felony, hence you can use deadly force against a burglar by default.

There is no judging of degrees in a fight. There's survival. That's it. The idea is to be the one that walks away. Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6, and you never know when someone is going to have a concealed weapon or expert training that they use to hurt you.

Again, not advocating killing them as they run (though there are instances when I would), but if you're in my house, you're dead. Period.

 

[eits]

ok... let me reitterate that the guy stabbed him SEVEN TIMES!

seriously... i want you people to actually stab the air with a pen as if you'd be stabbing someone else.... do it seven times. doesn't that seem way the fvck excessive?

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: DukeN
Kids make mistakes. Doesn't mean they deserve to die.

Looking at someone elses paper on a test is a mistake. Burglary is a violent attack on another person and their family. Felonies are NOT natural occurances of youth. ANYONE who commits a felony deserves absolutely anything that happens to them as a result. It is NOT ok to be a criminal just because you're under 18.

 

[Gooberlx2]

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: Gooberlx2

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: icelazer
I don't know how the whole situation played out, but if you walk into your apartment/home, wake up to, or are startled by someone breaking in, there isn't much reason left in the human brain. My first instinct (as I'm sure most others would be) would probably be "who the #($# are you?" Barring a reasonable response, I don't give a crap whether they're dusting my apartment, stealing crap, or waiting to kill me, my first instinct would be to make sure I'm the one left standing by any means necessary. A gun, a knife, a golf club, a crowbar, whatever it takes. This isn't some stupid mistake that the "kid" made, stupid mistakes are car accidents, doing drugs or drinking, etc. When you decide to break into someone's residence, you get what's coming. It's not a prank, it's not funny, for all the homeowner knows, it's them or you. I feel bad for the homeowner, he's probably going to get sued for this...

also, a good post. you gamble your life when you break into someone's house, because there are obviously people (like many of the people who talk a big game in this thread) who will kill you.

however, that doesn't mean it's ok OR smart.... it's probably the worst choice a homeowner could make, unless the burglar actually has a weapon.

So what do you want the homeowner to do? Introduce himself and ask if they have a weapon? Why the hell would you give up the only advantage you have (surprise) to possibly keep yourself alive ('cause you're not gonna know if they have a weapon) and your property intact? Calling 911 doesn't mean they wouldn't have made their way into wherever he was hiding before the police arrived and killed him. Or that they wouldn't notice him trying to escape the situation and kill him so he couldn't ID them. Like others have said: He didn't know their intentions or just how far they'd go. I know I wouldn't take that chance.

if you honestly think the cops will kill a 17-year-old petty thief?

there's a difference between beating a kid up for stealing your stuff and stabbing him 7 times in the leg. honestly, do you think it's easy to stab an adrenaline-rushed 17-year-old SEVEN times? think about that for a second..... SEVEN FRICKIN' TIMES!

grab a pencil or pen and stab the air seven times. see how easy it is for you to do. i could understand one or two stabs... but SEVEN stabs? if he had all this time to stab the guy that many times, he could have just wrestled him to the ground and beat his ass up and kept him there at knifepoint until the cops arrived.

the kid didn't deserve to die. if you think the cops would have killed him, you're delusional.

Reread my post, I didn't say the cops would kill him. Actually, I see you quoted before I edited in commas for that exact clarification. In any case, I just stabbed my pen into the air seven times. Seems pretty easy to me, much less on an adrenaline rush.

Yeah, the kid probably started scrambling to try to get away as soon as the first stab went in. However, you think the guy's going to let of his death grip on the leg and just be done with it. Rational thought doesn't really apply any longer.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: Gooberlx2

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: icelazer
I don't know how the whole situation played out, but if you walk into your apartment/home, wake up to, or are startled by someone breaking in, there isn't much reason left in the human brain. My first instinct (as I'm sure most others would be) would probably be "who the #($# are you?" Barring a reasonable response, I don't give a crap whether they're dusting my apartment, stealing crap, or waiting to kill me, my first instinct would be to make sure I'm the one left standing by any means necessary. A gun, a knife, a golf club, a crowbar, whatever it takes. This isn't some stupid mistake that the "kid" made, stupid mistakes are car accidents, doing drugs or drinking, etc. When you decide to break into someone's residence, you get what's coming. It's not a prank, it's not funny, for all the homeowner knows, it's them or you. I feel bad for the homeowner, he's probably going to get sued for this...

also, a good post. you gamble your life when you break into someone's house, because there are obviously people (like many of the people who talk a big game in this thread) who will kill you.

however, that doesn't mean it's ok OR smart.... it's probably the worst choice a homeowner could make, unless the burglar actually has a weapon.

So what do you want the homeowner to do? Introduce himself and ask if they have a weapon? Why the hell would you give up the only advantage you have (surprise) to possibly keep yourself alive ('cause you're not gonna know if they have a weapon) and your property intact? Calling 911 doesn't mean they wouldn't have made their way into wherever he was hiding before the police arrived and killed him. Or that they wouldn't notice him trying to escape the situation and kill him so he couldn't ID them. Like others have said: He didn't know their intentions or just how far they'd go. I know I wouldn't take that chance.

if you honestly think the cops will kill a 17-year-old petty thief?

there's a difference between beating a kid up for stealing your stuff and stabbing him 7 times in the leg. honestly, do you think it's easy to stab an adrenaline-rushed 17-year-old SEVEN times? think about that for a second..... SEVEN FRICKIN' TIMES!

grab a pencil or pen and stab the air seven times. see how easy it is for you to do. i could understand one or two stabs... but SEVEN stabs? if he had all this time to stab the guy that many times, he could have just wrestled him to the ground and beat his ass up and kept him there at knifepoint until the cops arrived.

the kid didn't deserve to die. if you think the cops would have killed him, you're delusional.

Cops don't kill anyone for the crimes they commit, they kill to save lives (there own included). If a 9yr old pointed a weapon at someone else (and there was reason to believe it would be used), yes, a cop would kill them...as would I. Age is irrelevent. Danger IS relevant.

If anyone, kid or adult, burglar or rapist or terrorist, threatened to use deadly force, a cop (or any sane armed citizen) would kill them to stop them.

 

[Gooberlx2]

Originally posted by: Proletariat

Originally posted by: StrangerGuy
Any state or country with sane laws will you charged for manslaughter if you killed a unarmed and fleeing petty thief. Obviously, some people here can't grasp that concept at all.

It seems to be mainly people from the South and Midwest.

Amazing, likely the areas with the least amount of crime (detroit and chicago southside excepted). No, I'm not going to look up stats.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: Ornery
...he stabbed a robber to death. was it worth it?

Are you French, or worse... a blue state voter? Talk about being raised right! :roll:

I am EXTREMELY anti-red state. EXTREMELY. But I'm not blue either. Believing you have the right to be safe and protect yourself supercedes all political affiliation.

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: Ornery
...chase after a kid and stab him several times while hes running away...

Easier death than being locked in a garbage can for several days, which would be my first choice!

way to make sense, dude. you really showed us blue states what's up....

anyone know what the hell this guy's talking about? i'm just a dumb blue state voter with a college edjumucation and getting my doctorate... can someone please explain what this wise sage is talking about when he talks about "being locked in a garbage can for several days"? is anyone else sufficiently confused?

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: Zebo
I'd be curious to know if any of these ethugs ever stole anything?

I shoplifted when I was a kid...like 7 or 8ish. It haunted me, so I ended up turning myself in. I've never committed a felony, and never willingly would (at least not one against an individual). If I broke into someones house for any reason I'd fully accept anything they chose to do to me.

 

[rbrandon]

Originally posted by: sm8000
Nice? The kid could have just done time rather than die.

here come the bleeding hearts

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Cops don't kill anyone for the crimes they commit, they kill to save lives (there own included). If a 9yr old pointed a weapon at someone else (and there was reason to believe it would be used), yes, a cop would kill them...as would I. Age is irrelevent. Danger IS relevant.

If anyone, kid or adult, burglar or rapist or terrorist, threatened to use deadly force, a cop (or any sane armed citizen) would kill them to stop them.

apparently, the kid was unarmed. that's what the whole thing's about. a cop wouldn't kill a petty burglar when he's unarmed. if the kid WAS armed, i see nothing wrong with the guy stabbing him to death.... it was self-defense. however, the guy wasn't armed.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: Zebo
I'd be curious to know if any of these ethugs ever stole anything?

I shoplifted when I was a kid...like 7 or 8ish. It haunted me, so I ended up turning myself in. I've never committed a felony, and never willingly would (at least not one against an individual). If I broke into someones house for any reason I'd fully accept anything they chose to do to me.

Is'nt a fist fight a felony? Shoud we shoot the kid? Some kid in my school went into coma from falling back and hitting thier noggin on the concrete I'm sure deaths have resulted from teenage fist fights.

As far as this case.. I'll just say I was'nt there maybe it was totally justified but I do find it disturbing some take such zeal in loss of life. Some people have some serious personality disorders on the internet as I'm concerned and I hope I don't ever meet some of ya in RL.

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: Gooberlx2

Originally posted by: Proletariat

Originally posted by: StrangerGuy
Any state or country with sane laws will you charged for manslaughter if you killed a unarmed and fleeing petty thief. Obviously, some people here can't grasp that concept at all.

It seems to be mainly people from the South and Midwest.

Amazing, likely the areas with the least amount of crime (detroit and chicago southside excepted). No, I'm not going to look up stats.

actually, the areas with the most generalized crime rates are in the south and midwest. the east and west coasts and the upper midwest are typically safer, with concentrated areas of crime (major cities: dc, new york, detroit). we learned about this is one of my poli-sci classes in undergrad. theories ranged from traditional upbringing to social/cyclical damages done by jim crow laws.

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: Zebo
I'd be curious to know if any of these ethugs ever stole anything?

I shoplifted when I was a kid...like 7 or 8ish. It haunted me, so I ended up turning myself in. I've never committed a felony, and never willingly would (at least not one against an individual). If I broke into someones house for any reason I'd fully accept anything they chose to do to me.

you probably grew up in a better environment than this 17-year-old did.... you probably had both parents who were home.... you probably didn't grow up in the middle of gang warfare and street life.... you probably didn't grow up seeing people die.... you probably didn't grow up realizing that it's hard to pull yourself up with the bootstrings when you don't have any boots.... you probably weren't addicted to some kind of narcotic....

my point is that you don't know what happened with this kid... people don't just grow up to do bad things like this (typically). seeing how he was just a petty crook, i doubt he was actually a truly evil person. he was just raised improperly and/or in a bad area. it's a shame that he died because he wasn't good enough at raising himself the right way when his parents couldn't.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: Zebo
I'd be curious to know if any of these ethugs ever stole anything?

I shoplifted when I was a kid...like 7 or 8ish. It haunted me, so I ended up turning myself in. I've never committed a felony, and never willingly would (at least not one against an individual). If I broke into someones house for any reason I'd fully accept anything they chose to do to me.

Is'nt a fist fight a felony? Shoud we shoot the kid? Some kid in my school went into coma from falling back and hitting thier noggin on the concrete I'm sure deaths have resulted from teenage fist fights.

Depends entirely on the circumstances. Could be completely legal (self-defense), a gross misdemeanor or a low level felony. I've only ever struck first once and there were mitigating circumstance in that case, so no, I've never committed a felony.

You should shoot anyone that might seriously injure or kill someone if you don't. The fault always lies 100% with the person who instigated. Don't wanna die, don't endanger others.

 

[Gooberlx2]

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: Gooberlx2

Originally posted by: Proletariat

Originally posted by: StrangerGuy
Any state or country with sane laws will you charged for manslaughter if you killed a unarmed and fleeing petty thief. Obviously, some people here can't grasp that concept at all.

It seems to be mainly people from the South and Midwest.

Amazing, likely the areas with the least amount of crime (detroit and chicago southside excepted). No, I'm not going to look up stats.

actually, the areas with the most generalized crime rates are in the south and midwest. the east and west coasts and the upper midwest are typically safer, with concentrated areas of crime (major cities: dc, new york, detroit). we learned about this is one of my poli-sci classes in undergrad. theories ranged from traditional upbringing to social/cyclical damages done by jim crow laws.

I'll take your word for it. I always forget that my idea of the Midwest is mostly limited to the Great Lakes area and Minnesota.

My question is what all falls under generalized crime? Speeding tickets and disorderly conduct? Stuff like that can totally skew a statistic. What if we were to be more specific and limit our scope to burglaries and violent crimes? Not arguing at this point, as I'm genuinely curious.