Ten Companies Paying Americans the Least

[ch33zw1z]

I could do my best impersonation. Screw over all the worker things, do it now. Move the factory somewhere cheaper unless we get a tax break or we take away all the jobs.

Am I doing it right?

close. it's cut cut cut benefits, no raises, complain about costs, for <executive level. outsource everything you can to some shit hole country, profit.

 

[Tom]

And you think they can scrape anyone off the sidewalk and plant them in the CEO chair and it would be a success.

No I don't think that. I laid out several reasons why ceo compensation isn't always justified.

1. its a club. They scratch each other's backs.

2. they can focus on share price to increase their bonuses, not always the best thing for the health of the company.

3. They inherit the job. Or are the last one around. Steve Ballmer..

Anyway, its within our power to change the way ceo's are compensated, I'm not saying we should, I don't know, I'm saying there's not a reason to think corporate governance rules are written on stone tablets somewhere.

 

[Carson Dyle]

You'd probably be shocked to know how many PhD's are working at starbucks.

Not really. They're Ph.D.s in Psychology or English Literature or Medieval History. Nobody told them to get worthless degrees, anymore than someone forced them into becoming baristas instead of electricians after they realized that they just pissed away eight years of their lives and $250k.

 

[sportage]

I know one guy working for walmart, photo dept, for 20 years, and he is making $20 an hour.
Guess thats fair.
He also gets a monthly (maybe quarterly) share of the store bonus, where the store meets or exceeds set sales goal. Sever times that check amounted to over $300 that he was paid.
Not too bad for an unexpected quarterly bonus.

My problem with walmart is that they make new employees wait a full year before qualifying for their healthcare plan.
And pre existing condition employees can never qualified.
No open enrollment excluding pre existing as with most other major companies.
Well, that was the policy at one time for walmart(s).
Someone correct me if that is wrong or has changed.

Walmart offers their healthcare in chunks.
Basic care, family basic care, hospital care, cancer care, and so on.
If one takes all the segments offered with healthcare, the employee cost most likely exceeds that employees monthly take-home pay.
So their healthcare is extremely limited, because of employee cost.

This guy I know in their photo dept signed up for almost all coverage when he first qualified 19 years ago.
HR dept called him in and ask him if he realized the healthcare cost for what he chose would take up nearly all of his paycheck. HR basically insisted that he drop everything except the basic and hospital coverage.

Cancer or chronic illness is not considered hospital.
Hospital was pretty much only for personal injury.
I have no idea of the co-pays or yearly deductibles.
And they seem to have a lot of on the job personal injuries.
Claims filed.
And those employees are not around much longer after filing an on the job injury claim.

Again, if this has changed at walmart, i'd like to know.

The one thing I notice at most walmarts I have shopped on a regular basis is how friendly the employees are, and how they also love to openly gripe and bitch about their job.
No one seems to care that the employers bad mouth their job and the company.
That seems to go with the territory.
And despite the bitching, employees seem fairly happy, friendly, and enjoy their bitching.
And despite all that, many workers will end up as long term employees.
Go figure.

 

[Zaap]

3. They inherit the job. Or are the last one around. Steve Ballmer..

Who is stepping down (read: finally forced out).

One of you class-envy types should apply for that job. Why haven't you, in fact? It's your chance to prove how bone simple it is to run a large company. You should easily get the job, because what matters most is that you'll offer to do it for a few hundred k. The board will of course jump on that vs the greedbags who expect to be compensated millions for making them billions.

Does MS have your CEO resume and what are your big plans for the company since your bargain wage makes you a shoe in? Looking forqard to finally in all these years see a class envyier actually put up instead of just forever spouting off. Congrats on your new job.

 

[Tom]

Who is stepping down (read: finally forced out).

One of you class-envy types should apply for that job. Why haven't you, in fact? It's your chance to prove how bone simple it is to run a large company. You should easily get the job, because what matters most is that you'll offer to do it for a few hundred k. The board will of course jump on that vs the greedbags who expect to be compensated millions for making them billions.

Does MS have your CEO resume and what are your big plans for the company since your bargain wage makes you a shoe in? Looking forqard to finally in all these years see a class envyier actually put up instead of just forever spouting off. Congrats on your new job.

What have I posted that are you talking about ?

 

[Agent11]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/15/opinion/egan-under-my-thumb.html?_r=0

Record Profits

$500mil tax break

Stock at highs

They cut the pensions why?

They eliminate all their human capital and experience for what? Save a few dollars in the short term and shoot themselves in the foot for the long term? Okay. Sounds like a good plan.

I honestly think corporations feel the same way that some people do. That we're probably headed off an economic cliff. Thats the only way I can rationalize the corporations gutting their human capital for short term gains, hoarding cash, and slashing R&D. All the corporations. They are essentially cashing out. And you are a sucker

Thats how things worked maybe 10 years ago.

Would you go back in time and tell Henry Ford to nix the higher wages? He managed to out compete hundreds of auto companies in the heyday of auto manufacturing. Maybe its because he had the best and most loyal employees who said they liked Ford? You think those modern day employees are going to tell their family to fly Boeing? Actions have consequences is all. And the corporations as far as I can tell are cashing out and running meanwhile shooting themselves in the foot, multiple times for good measure.

Ford was an industrialist. There is a distinction there; his philosophy was to pay workers well enough that they could also be consumers of the goods they were producing. Are you proposing that the average McDonalds employee cannot afford a big mac?

 

[Matt1970]

No I don't think that. I laid out several reasons why ceo compensation isn't always justified.

1. its a club. They scratch each other's backs.

2. they can focus on share price to increase their bonuses, not always the best thing for the health of the company.

3. They inherit the job. Or are the last one around. Steve Ballmer..

Anyway, its within our power to change the way ceo's are compensated, I'm not saying we should, I don't know, I'm saying there's not a reason to think corporate governance rules are written on stone tablets somewhere.

CEO's are typically voted in by the board of directors. And regulating max pay for anyone is a slippery slope pal.

 

[dud]

What is sadder than the article is the Rich Republican P&N posters that support these Executives and Corporations.

I think that I am going to be sick ...

 

[dmcowen674]

P.S. Dear god, please tell me you don't seriously live in Indianapolis now.

Yep, right on Georgetown Rd just north of the Speedway.

 

[Engineer]

I don't have a problem with what these places are paying people. The real problem is that jobs, good paying jobs that not only create wealth for the workers and produce a real product, have been shipped out from under them. Jobs in which decent wages and benefits were given to the employees and a job from which not only were they producing a product, they could learn technical skills and move up the ladder in a trades capacity. Now, they simply work at the above companies and are pushing for ever increasing government assistance (and the respective company agrees with this since they have been shown to push for such policy) because they do not make enough to get by on.

The sacrifice of long term future for short term gains is rearing it's ugly head....and there's not much stopping it now except debt and bubbles.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jul/24/10-reason-us-economy-stuck

 

[Agent11]

I don't have a problem with what these places are paying people. The real problem is that jobs, good paying jobs that not only create wealth for the workers and produce a real product, have been shipped out from under them. Jobs in which decent wages and benefits were given to the employees and a job from which not only were they producing a product, they could learn technical skills and move up the ladder in a trades capacity. Now, they simply work at the above companies and are pushing for ever increasing government assistance (and the respective company agrees with this since they have been shown to push for such policy) because they do not make enough to get by on.

The sacrifice of long term future for short term gains is rearing it's ugly head....and there's not much stopping it now except debt and bubbles.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jul/24/10-reason-us-economy-stuck

Yet instead of addressing the underlying problem what is it that tom and dmcowen are proposing?

Socialism? Communism? Or are they just pissing into the wind?

 

[OverVolt]

Ford was an industrialist. There is a distinction there; his philosophy was to pay workers well enough that they could also be consumers of the goods they were producing. Are you proposing that the average McDonalds employee cannot afford a big mac?

They can't afford to eat out at all probably

 

[Engineer]

Yet instead of addressing the underlying problem what is it that tom and dmcowen are proposing?

Socialism? Communism? Or are they just pissing into the wind?

Regardless of what anyone proposes, if those at the top (moving the jobs offshore) aren't willing to bring the jobs back and provide better wages, we are slowly going to gravitate to taking that money (via taxation) and distributing it to the lower tiers (unless we have an outright revolution). Always happens in this situation.

 

[Tom]

CEO's are typically voted in by the board of directors. And regulating max pay for anyone is a slippery slope pal.

And ceos typically sit on each other's boards of directors. That's part of my point about it being a club.

And who said anything about regulating max pay ?

My point is that we the people have the right to decide if and how corporations are allowed to exist and operate. It's all part of our law.

And I'm saying it because I think some people think we are at the mercy of large corporations, not the other way around.

 

[rudeguy]

And ceos typically sit on each other's boards of directors. That's part of my point about it being a club.

And who said anything about regulating max pay ?

My point is that we the people have the right to decide if and how corporations are allowed to exist and operate. It's all part of our law.

And I'm saying it because I think some people think we are at the mercy of large corporations, not the other way around.

So we should vote on how much they make?

 

[Tom]

So we should vote on how much they make?

Let me try to explain this by analogy.

I say..you can borrow book at a library.

Then you respond..what if I don't want to read your hippie liberal commie books ?

If I say the law belongs to us and that includes the law that governs corporations as well as their right to exist..

that is not me saying anything about what we should change, if anything.

And here is why I'm pointing out that it's our law. Because we should have laws that affect the outcome we want. We don't have to accept the way things are, unless we are happy with the results.

 

[rudeguy]

Let me try to explain this by analogy.

I say..you can borrow book at a library.

Then you respond..what if I don't want to read your hippie liberal commie books ?

If I say the law belongs to us and that includes the law that governs corporations as well as their right to exist..

that is not me saying anything about what we should change, if anything.

And here is why I'm pointing out that it's our law. Because we should have laws that affect the outcome we want. We don't have to accept the way things are, unless we are happy with the results.

Just answer yes or no you freak

 

[Matt1970]

Regardless of what anyone proposes, if those at the top (moving the jobs offshore) aren't willing to bring the jobs back and provide better wages, we are slowly going to gravitate to taking that money (via taxation) and distributing it to the lower tiers (unless we have an outright revolution). Always happens in this situation.

Hey, we have another recruit for the revolution to overthrow the rich.

 

[Engineer]

Hey, we have another recruit for the revolution to overthrow the rich.

You can't read. I never said I was for it but that is what is going to happen. I would far rather have the better jobs back. It would solve nearly EVERY problem that we have in both government and the economy.

 

[Matt1970]

And ceos typically sit on each other's boards of directors. That's part of my point about it being a club.

And who said anything about regulating max pay ?

My point is that we the people have the right to decide if and how corporations are allowed to exist and operate. It's all part of our law.

And I'm saying it because I think some people think we are at the mercy of large corporations, not the other way around.

You did.

Anyway, its within our power to change the way ceo's are compensated.

It's really this simple. If you decide to limit yourselves to only being able to work for these corporations, than don't bitch about what they pay. You were taught all through school and growing up that if you don't get any skills or an education, you limit your options in the real world. Why do you people think that didn't apply to you?

 

[Ruptga]

Yeah I'm not too too bothered by this. Yes our wages are low compared to other countries. But I'm more bothered by the $1T in student debt we possess as a country and the fact loans are being paid back late is at an all time high. The middle class is slowly dissappearing...

Consider that these two bolded sections might be connected.

Government mandates for higher pay are, at best, a very mixed sort of blessing. But this country did and does best when its companies actually give a shit about their employees and communities, rather than seeing them as interchangeable cogs in the quest for the holy Maximized Shareholder Value and Quarterly Earnings Statement.

I think the real goal of this sort of article and discussion is less calling for a new government mandate than it is trying to make people aware of shitty working conditions that are making America weaker - every time Walmart pays its full-time employees too little to feed their families, we taxpayers are subsidizing their profits through food stamps, charity, and the long-term costs of malnourished children being less capable employees and citizens down the line (plus health care costs of malnourished children and those obese from eating fatty/salty/unhealthy dollar store foods).

Those of you convinced that welfare is an evil for creating dependence should be especially concerned about this, because it's basically teaching people at the bottom of the ladder that working full time doesn't actually get you enough money to feed your family, plus you now have (very expensive) child care costs since you can't stay home to care for them.

People like you are why I haven't completely given up on humanity. Thanks for not being a shithead.

 

[Matt1970]

You can't read. I never said I was for it but that is what is going to happen. I would far rather have the better jobs back. It would solve nearly EVERY problem that we have in both government and the economy.

You can't use common sense. You can bring all the jobs you want back here but unless you do something about the competition (cheap imports) you are shooting yourself in the foot. When was the last time you actually look at where something was made before you bought it? I can't tell you how much crap I put back on the shelf because it says "Made In China" You can put all the American made products you want on the shelf but unless we change our buying habits it won't do a damn but of good. Like I keep saying, we were warned about this decades ago, now we do everything we can to blame it on something else.

1970's: If you keep buying imports we will lose jobs.
2010's: There are no jobs, it's the corporation's fault.

 

[Tom]

You did.




It's really this simple. If you decide to limit yourselves to only being able to work for these corporations, than don't bitch about what they pay. You were taught all through school and growing up that if you don't get any skills or an education, you limit your options in the real world. Why do you people think that didn't apply to you?

Why do you keep talking about me ? I understand it's a tactic in a discussion if you don't have anything to add to antagonize the person you're talking to, is that the extent of this discussion for you ?

If I say it's possible to change the way ceos are compensated, that is not saying reduce their compensation. Period. Changing could mean increasing their compensation.

Can you see that ?

 

[Engineer]

You can't use common sense. You can bring all the jobs you want back here but unless you do something about the competition (cheap imports) you are shooting yourself in the foot. When was the last time you actually look at where something was made before you bought it? I can't tell you how much crap I put back on the shelf because it says "Made In China" You can put all the American made products you want on the shelf but unless we change our buying habits it won't do a damn but of good. Like I keep saying, we were warned about this decades ago, now we do everything we can to blame it on something else.

1970's: If you keep buying imports we will lose jobs.
2010's: There are no jobs, it's the corporation's fault.

I never said that bringing back jobs was the entire part of the equation. The removal of 'so called free trade' has been typed by me more times on this forum than you have posts so you can remove the common sense portion of you post. And as for my habits, why yes, I do look for the American Made label. I buy wherever I can. Hell, I even see that Element (IIRC) assembles (it's a start) a TV here in the US. When was the last time a TV was assembled here? How about Motorola assembling the Moto X smart phone here? The wages and benefits might not be what they once were in manufacturing, but they are better than Walmart and on top of that, many people in manufacturing learn life long skills that you won't pick up in Walmart or McDonalds.

One thing that chaps my ass is the clever labeling that many companies throw on their products. I recently looked for a Made in the USA shower head (didn't find one) and saw the big USA and a flag on the front of the packaging. Upon closer examination, I saw the fine printed words of 'packaged in' above the USA and the flag. That's bullshit. At least assembled means it was put together here (or at least partially).

Makes me wonder if Walmart and other companies are finally starting to see the light in that they are now promoting bringing back manufacturing to the US. I'm sure that they can see the decline in the consumers (who now have shitty jobs) spending power and can see that the ever growing expansion of government tit supported people isn't sustainable. I guess we will see if 'their actions speak as loud as their words'.