Ten Commandments: NOT the foundation of American Law

[Riprorin]

James Madison, the chief architect of the Constitution:

"We have staked the whole future of American civilization not on the power of government, far from it. We have staked the future of all of our political institutions upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God."

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: Riprorin
"The fundamental basis of this nation's law was given to Moses on the Mount. The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teaching we get from Exodus and St. Matthew, from Isaiah and St. Paul. I don't think we emphasize that enough these days. If we don't have the proper fundamental moral background, we will finally end up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in the right for anybody except the state." - Democratic President Harry S. Truman

Well, you certainly have a leader who is more concerned with the rights of the state than those of citizens. But American law is not very similar to the Ten Commandments, and never has been.

Therefore I would submit that Truman was afraid of the right outcome, but for the wrong reasons.

 

[Riprorin]

President John Quincy Adams directly addresses the Ten Commandments:

"The law given from Sinai was a civil and municipal code as well as a moral and religious code. These are laws essential to the existence of men in society and most of which have been enacted by every Nation which ever professed any code of laws. Vain indeed would be the search among the writings of secular history to find so broad, so complete and so solid a basis of morality as the Ten Commandments lay down."

 

[Riprorin]

President John Adams, a signer of the Bill of Rights:

"The moment the idea is admitted into society that property is not as sacred as the laws of God and that there is no force of law in public justice to protect it, anarchy and tyranny commence. If 'thou shall not covet' and 'thou shall not steal' are not commandments of heaven, they must be made inviolable precepts in every society before it can be civilized or made free."

 

[Riprorin]

DID YOU KNOW?

As you walk up the steps to the building which houses the U.S. Supreme Court you can see near the top of the building a row of the world's law givers and each one is facing one in the middle who is facing forward with a full frontal view - it is Moses and he is holding the Ten Commandments!

DID YOU KNOW?

As you enter the Supreme Court courtroom, the two huge oak doors have the Ten Commandments engraved on each lower portion of each door.

DID YOU KNOW?

As you sit inside the courtroom, you can see the wall, right above where the Supreme Court judges sit, a display of the Ten Commandments!


DID YOU KNOW?

There are Bible verses etched in stone all over the Federal Buildings and Monuments in Washington, D.C.

DID YOU KNOW?

James Madison, the fourth president, known as "The Father of Our Constitution" made the following statement "We have staked the whole of all our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government, upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God."

DID YOU KNOW?

Patrick Henry, that patriot and Founding Father of our country said, "It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded not by religionists but by Christians, not on religions but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ".


DID YOU KNOW?

Every session of Congress begins with a prayer by a paid preacher, whose salary has been paid by the taxpayer since 1777.


DID YOU KNOW?

Fifty-two of the 55 founders of the Constitution were members of the established orthodox churches in the colonies.

DID YOU KNOW?

Thomas Jefferson worried that the Courts would overstep their authority and instead of interpreting the law would begin making law....an oligarchy....the rule of few over many.

DID YOU KNOW?

The very first Supreme Court Justice, John Jay, said, "Americans should select and prefer Christians as their rulers."

How, then, have we gotten to the point that everything we have done for 220 years in this country is now suddenly wrong and unconstitutional?

 

[Infohawk]

How about you let your turd thread sink to the bottom? One bump is cool. Two is suspicious. Three is down right riprorin.

 

[Riprorin]

Did you also know that Fisher Ames, who suggested the wording of the First Amendment believed that all men were sinners, that morality should not be decided by majority but upon the higher principles of the Bible, ans that our nation would be more stable if it were a constitutional republic with a constitution rooted in the principles of the Bible?

As a first session congressman, Ames said this: "Should not the Bible regain the place it once held as a schoolbook? Its morals are pure, its examples are captivating and noble." He went on to say, "The reverence for the sacred book that is thus early impressed lasts long; and, probably, if not impressed in infancy, never takes firm hold of the mind."

 

[Harvey]

Man needs a god like a fish needs a pogo stick. 😛

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: Riprorin
Did you also know that Fisher Ames, who suggested the wording of the First Amendment believed that all men were sinners, that morality should not be decided by majority but upon the higher principles of the Bible, ans that our nation would be more stable if it were a constitutional republic with a constitution rooted in the principles of the Bible?

As a first session congressman, Ames said this: "Should not the Bible regain the place it once held as a schoolbook? Its morals are pure, its examples are captivating and noble." He went on to say, "The reverence for the sacred book that is thus early impressed lasts long; and, probably, if not impressed in infancy, never takes firm hold of the mind."

This is the same kind of dung as your crap-flooding. You got it from some nutto website didn't you? At least give credit where credit is due.

 

[Riprorin]

John Jay, original Chief-Justice U.S. Supreme Court, said it is the duty of all wise, free, and virtuous governments to help and encourage virtue and religion.

He also said that "Only one adequate plan has ever appeared in the world, and that is the Christian dispensation."

 

[Infohawk]

Riprorin. Why don't you just post all the new useless quotes you have in one thread?

 

[Riprorin]

As Justice Goldberg wisely reminded us more than four decades ago, ?[n]either government nor this Court can or should ignore the significance of the fact that . . . many of our legal, political and personal values derive historically from religious teachings.? School Dist. of Abington Township v. Schempp, 374 U.S. 203, 306 (1962) (Goldberg, J., concurring).

 

[petrek]

Originally posted by: Tabb
Guess what this is...Well, John Adams doesn't represent the United States anymore 😉

The commandments don't belong there, let's move them some place else.

According to the statements made by the founding fathers and other political figures of America throughtout her few centuries of existence, they do belong there.

Dave

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: petrek

Originally posted by: Tabb
Guess what this is...Well, John Adams doesn't represent the United States anymore 😉

The commandments don't belong there, let's move them some place else.

According to the statements made by the founding fathers and other political figures of America throughtout her few centuries of existence, they do belong there.

Dave

Yes, of course. :roll:

The law is quite clear. Let's not try to spam the thread with quotes from people that having no say in our matter of current affairs. The times have changed, these rocks need to go.

 

[petrek]

Originally posted by: Tabb

Originally posted by: petrek

Originally posted by: Tabb
Guess what this is...Well, John Adams doesn't represent the United States anymore 😉

The commandments don't belong there, let's move them some place else.

According to the statements made by the founding fathers and other political figures of America throughtout her few centuries of existence, they do belong there.

Dave

Yes, of course. :roll:

The law is quite clear. Let's not try to spam the thread with quotes from people that having no say in our matter of current affairs. The times have changed, these rocks need to go.

This thread is about the opinions of those that shaped America's constitution and laws.

Dave

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: petrek

Originally posted by: Tabb

Originally posted by: petrek

Originally posted by: Tabb
Guess what this is...Well, John Adams doesn't represent the United States anymore 😉

The commandments don't belong there, let's move them some place else.

According to the statements made by the founding fathers and other political figures of America throughtout her few centuries of existence, they do belong there.

Dave

Yes, of course. :roll:

The law is quite clear. Let's not try to spam the thread with quotes from people that having no say in our matter of current affairs. The times have changed, these rocks need to go.

This thread is about the opinions of those that shaped America's constitution and laws.

Dave

Really? I thought it was about the 10 commandments and how they aren't the foundation for american law...

 

[DealMonkey]

Reading through this thread over the course of the last few days, it seems painfully obvious that there is far more evidence that the ten commandments are not a significant basis for our legal system. Those that are arguing against that premise are primarily going on "feeling," meaning they feel they should be woven into our legal system just like other references to God and Christianity have been woven into other aspects of our government. Simply going on a feeling doesn't necessarily make it so. Nor does it make it right. The fundamental result of government neutrality on the topic of religion is a much greater freedom of religion as it provides a level playing field for all faiths. After 10s if not 100s of these exact sort of threads around here, it still mystifies me that this point isn't self-evident.

 

[petrek]

Originally posted by: Tabb

Originally posted by: petrek

Originally posted by: Tabb

Originally posted by: petrek

Originally posted by: Tabb
Guess what this is...Well, John Adams doesn't represent the United States anymore 😉

The commandments don't belong there, let's move them some place else.

According to the statements made by the founding fathers and other political figures of America throughtout her few centuries of existence, they do belong there.

Dave

Yes, of course. :roll;

The law is quite clear. Let's not try to spam the thread with quotes from people that having no say in our matter of current affairs. The times have changed, these rocks need to go.

This thread is about the opinions of those that shaped America's constitution and laws.

Dave

Really? I thought it was about the 10 commandments and how they aren't the foundation for american law...

It is the essay writer's opinion that America's government and laws weren't founded on Christian beliefs and principles, while it is the statements of those that founded and governed our country that state otherwise.

Dave

 

[nageov3t]

Originally posted by: Riprorin
/snip

just because someone dead and old said it doesn't make it morally true.

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: petrek

Originally posted by: Tabb

Originally posted by: petrek

Originally posted by: Tabb

Originally posted by: petrek

Originally posted by: Tabb
Guess what this is...Well, John Adams doesn't represent the United States anymore 😉

The commandments don't belong there, let's move them some place else.

According to the statements made by the founding fathers and other political figures of America throughtout her few centuries of existence, they do belong there.

Dave

Yes, of course. :roll:

The law is quite clear. Let's not try to spam the thread with quotes from people that having no say in our matter of current affairs. The times have changed, these rocks need to go.

This thread is about the opinions of those that shaped America's constitution and laws.

Dave

Really? I thought it was about the 10 commandments and how they aren't the foundation for american law...

It is the essay writer's opinion that America's government and laws weren't founded on Christian beliefs and principles, while it is the statements of those that founded and governed our country that state otherwise.

Dave

No! Really? Are you sure about that?...

Not only is that his opinion, it's a fact as well.

 

[Riprorin]

Originally posted by: Tabb

Originally posted by: petrek

Originally posted by: Tabb

Originally posted by: petrek

Originally posted by: Tabb
Guess what this is...Well, John Adams doesn't represent the United States anymore 😉

The commandments don't belong there, let's move them some place else.

According to the statements made by the founding fathers and other political figures of America throughtout her few centuries of existence, they do belong there.

Dave

Yes, of course. :roll:

The law is quite clear. Let's not try to spam the thread with quotes from people that having no say in our matter of current affairs. The times have changed, these rocks need to go.

This thread is about the opinions of those that shaped America's constitution and laws.

Dave

Really? I thought it was about the 10 commandments and how they aren't the foundation for american law...

James Madison, the chief architect of the Constitution:

"We have staked the whole future of American civilization not on the power of government, far from it. We have staked the future of all of our political institutions upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God."

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Riprorin
James Madison, the chief architect of the Constitution:

"We have staked the whole future of American civilization not on the power of government, far from it. We have staked the future of all of our political institutions upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God."

James Madison:
"A Memorial and Remonstrance", 1785

"Experience witnesseth that ecclesiastical establishments, instead of maintaining the purity and efficacy of religion, have had a contrary operation. During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution."

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Originally posted by: Tabb

Originally posted by: petrek

Originally posted by: Tabb

Originally posted by: petrek

Originally posted by: Tabb
Guess what this is...Well, John Adams doesn't represent the United States anymore 😉

The commandments don't belong there, let's move them some place else.

According to the statements made by the founding fathers and other political figures of America throughtout her few centuries of existence, they do belong there.

Dave

Yes, of course. :roll:

The law is quite clear. Let's not try to spam the thread with quotes from people that having no say in our matter of current affairs. The times have changed, these rocks need to go.

This thread is about the opinions of those that shaped America's constitution and laws.

Dave

Really? I thought it was about the 10 commandments and how they aren't the foundation for american law...

James Madison, the chief architect of the Constitution:

"We have staked the whole future of American civilization not on the power of government, far from it. We have staked the future of all of our political institutions upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God."

sorry to burst your bubble, but out of interest I googled your quote and first link was this
http://members.tripod.com/~candst/misq1.htm

On page 120 of David Barton's book The Myth of Separation, David Barton quotes James Madison as saying:

"We have staked the whole future of American civilization not upon the power of government, far from it. We have staked the future of all our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government, upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments."

Barton gives the following footnote for the quotation:

Harold K. Lane, Liberty! Cry Liberty! (Boston: Lamb and Lamb Tractarian Society, 1939), pp. 32-33. See also Fedrick Nyneyer, First Principles in Morality and Economics: Neighborly Love and Ricardo's Law of Association (South Holland" Libertarian Press, 1958), pp. 31.

The only problem with the above is, no such quote has ever been found among any of James Madison's writings. None of the biographers of Madison, past or present have ever run across such a quote, and most if not all would love to know where this false quote originated. Apparently, David Barton did not check the work of the secondary sources he quotes.

Robert Alley, an distinguished historian at the University of Richmond, made an attempt to track down the origin of this quote. The following is his report on his effort as published in "Public Education and the Public Good," William and Mary Bill of Rights Journal,, Summer 1995, pp. 316-318:

....
<long text>
...

 

[Riprorin]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Riprorin
James Madison, the chief architect of the Constitution:

"We have staked the whole future of American civilization not on the power of government, far from it. We have staked the future of all of our political institutions upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God."

James Madison:
"A Memorial and Remonstrance", 1785

"Experience witnesseth that ecclesiastical establishments, instead of maintaining the purity and efficacy of religion, have had a contrary operation. During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution."

Here the whole text:

Link

Madison is merely explaining why he opposed the establishment of any denomination by law.

Of course, preventing domination by any one faith doesn't have anything to do with joining the moral and spiritual aspects of Christianity with governement.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Riprorin
James Madison, the chief architect of the Constitution:

"We have staked the whole future of American civilization not on the power of government, far from it. We have staked the future of all of our political institutions upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God."

James Madison:
"A Memorial and Remonstrance", 1785

"Experience witnesseth that ecclesiastical establishments, instead of maintaining the purity and efficacy of religion, have had a contrary operation. During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution."

Here the whole text:

Link

Madison is merely explaining why he opposed the establishment of any denomination by law.

Of course, preventing denomination by any one faith doesn't have anything to do with joining the moral and spiritual aspects of Christianity with governement.

At least he actually made that statement unlike the one you attributed to him.