Temps for e6600 with water cooling.

[kenshin9]

Hey everyone. I've started overclocking, but my temps aren't as good as I thought they'd be. So I went back to stock just to see how hot the CPU would get after leaving it idle for a while. According to speedfan, my CPU ends up idling around 40C, but can get as low as 38C. Ambient is no more than 28C in my room. I'm pretty sure that's higher than what most people are getting.

I'm not just cooling the CPU. My water loop consists of the CPU, northbridge, and the X1900GT. My processor is the e6600, and motherboard is the P5W DH Deluxe with the 2004 bios. I am using the Swiftech H20-220 APEX kit, along with other Swiftech water blocks.

So shouldn't I be getting better temps? I'm sure that everything was cleaned and mounted properly. I've used Arctic Silver 5 on the CPU, and Arctic Ceramique on everything else. I've got a good amount of air blowing on the radiator, which is mounted externally. Could the pump be pushing the water too fast? What could be making the CPU so hot? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.



Here is a screenshot of the programs.
http://i12.photobucket.com/alb...temps.jpg?t=1181164216[/L]">http://i12.photobucket.com/alb...t=1181164216</a>

 

[kenshin9]

And just now, I noticed the CPU temp spiked up to 69C. And it seems to be staying there. However, the core temps have remained the same, which is around 45C.

 

[Xed]

Are you sure the pump is working? Double check that everything is mounted properly? Air bubbles in the loop? Loop setup correctly? Temps being reported correctly? At 69c the block should be pretty toasty.

 

[jackrob]

Thats far too hot I'm afraid. Either the watercooling set up is not fitted properly, or a sensor is broken and not reading the temperatures properly. My money is on the first one, because although everyone claims it... I've never seen a temperature sensor that is especially wrong. So I'm sure that is very rare. (Although it depends where you take the temperature from. Some motherboards have CPU temp sensors which aren't very good. Programs like CoreTemp and IntelTAT though, seem to be very accurate indeed).

For a guide, I think these temperatures are a fair indication. Just don't take it as gospel or anything:

1) My friend has a Q6700 (so quad core AND faster than the E6600). He has a watercooling setup and his CPU idles at about 39C idle - which is pretty good from what I've heard about those quad cores.

2) I have an E6600 so I've researched temperatures. With AIR cooling, people are meant to average about 35C when idle, and about 45-50 under load ----> measured in CoreTemp and IntelTAT.

 

[Raider1284]

39 for an overclocked quad core is REALLY low. Those things overclocked on load break 80c on watercooling!!

Def check if your waterblocks and radiator are warm. You waterblock should only be slightly warm and your radiator should def be warm. If you radiator is cool and your blocks are hot your pump isnt working correctly. If everything feels cool then your blocks are most likely not seated correctly and arent making good contact which would also explain the high temps. are your fans flush up against the radiator? are they attached to a shroud? they def should not be blowing air "on" the radiator, they are supposed to be either pushing or pulling air "through" the radiator.

Hope this helps.

 

[aigomorla]

are you using a Apogee?

You need to orientate your barbs so there like this

O
O and not O O

The cores are alligned vertically up and down. Also AS5 needs to be applied up and down.

Also, can you check your mcp655. Thats your pump. See if the dial is on 5, the max setting and not 1. It might be a flow rate problem you have.

Lastly, im thinking you might be overloaded on your radiator. The X1900GT is a heat monster. Its not as bad as a 8800, but its hot. Your radiator is at best ment for a 130-150W heat range. That puts it at cpu only with a Chipset block at max.

CPU overclocked = 121W MAX more roughly around 110W
X1900XT = i have no idea, but im guessing around 60-70W.

Thgats 170-180W you need to get rid of from your radiator. Thats a bit too weak for your current setup.

Originally posted by: jackrob
Thats far too hot I'm afraid. Either the watercooling set up is not fitted properly, or a sensor is broken and not reading the temperatures properly. My money is on the first one, because although everyone claims it... I've never seen a temperature sensor that is especially wrong. So I'm sure that is very rare. (Although it depends where you take the temperature from. Some motherboards have CPU temp sensors which aren't very good. Programs like CoreTemp and IntelTAT though, seem to be very accurate indeed).

For a guide, I think these temperatures are a fair indication. Just don't take it as gospel or anything:

1) My friend has a Q6700 (so quad core AND faster than the E6600). He has a watercooling setup and his CPU idles at about 39C idle - which is pretty good from what I've heard about those quad cores.

2) I have an E6600 so I've researched temperatures. With AIR cooling, people are meant to average about 35C when idle, and about 45-50 under load ----> measured in CoreTemp and IntelTAT.

Q6700 is either a ES sample, or your friend is calling shins on you.

So If its either, dont including it. ES samples arent fair. And i load at 51C tops with idles in the sub30's on coretemp.

What is my setup you ask? Only the best on this forum for water
http://i125.photobucket.com/al...aigomorla/NewTemps.jpg Its WCG, it works the same as orthos on blend.


http://i125.photobucket.com/al...aigomorla/IMG_0721.jpg
Whats recomended for a quadcore on extreme overclocking. Thats as long as you dont want to jump to sub ambient.

 

[kenshin9]

Thank you all for your replies. I'm sure that everything is mounted properly and the air has been purged from the system. The blocks and radiator are warm, so that should indicate that there is good contact.

Aigomorla - I really appreciate the detail in your response. It's exactly what I was looking for. I didn't know that the orientation of the barbs mattered. I have the MCP655-B, which doesn't have the dial. So it's running at full blast at around 4400rpm. When you say that the AS5 needs to be applied up and down, do you mean to spread it on with a card? Whenever I applied it, I have always done the rice size drop in the middle. I actually thought that the video card could have been the problem. I will try running the system without this video card. If that is indeed the problem, it looks like I would have spent money on the card and water block for nothing. Haha, oh well.

By the way, if it turns out that I need more tubing to redo the loop, is there a retail store that I can easily find the same or similar tubing? Perhaps a place like Home Depot or something?



EDIT: Also, when I mount the Apogee vertically, would it be okay to make the inlet the bottom barb, and the outlet the top one?

 

[Engraver]

I have pretty much the same WC setup as you, with slightly different hardware. I have an x6800 running at stock (2.93ghz) at the moment. It idles at 38-40C and loads about 44-46C. If you don't have your tubing going into the right flow direction as indictated on the block that can make a fairly big difference sometimes. Also, make sure you have your in and out on your pump set up right. I noticed with mine, the instructions gave the reverse directions for the in/out flow.

Picture of my loop, wires still kind of messy:
http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/1627/dsc00250ph7.jpg

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: kenshin9
Thank you all for your replies. I'm sure that everything is mounted properly and the air has been purged from the system. The blocks and radiator are warm, so that should indicate that there is good contact.

Aigomorla - I really appreciate the detail in your response. It's exactly what I was looking for. I didn't know that the orientation of the barbs mattered. I have the MCP655-B, which doesn't have the dial. So it's running at full blast at around 4400rpm. When you say that the AS5 needs to be applied up and down, do you mean to spread it on with a card? Whenever I applied it, I have always done the rice size drop in the middle. I actually thought that the video card could have been the problem. I will try running the system without this video card. If that is indeed the problem, it looks like I would have spent money on the card and water block for nothing. Haha, oh well.

By the way, if it turns out that I need more tubing to redo the loop, is there a retail store that I can easily find the same or similar tubing? Perhaps a place like Home Depot or something?



EDIT: Also, when I mount the Apogee vertically, would it be okay to make the inlet the bottom barb, and the outlet the top one?

Interesting. I would like to know your loop layout, and what your exact blocks. But it wouldnt matter if your inlet or outlet was at the bottom. Your objective is to cover the the die as much as possible with a flow of water.

Can you take a picture of your system? i would need to take a look at it more carefully. However your loads should not be anywhere near 70 unless your pushing more then 1.55Vcore on it.

 

[kenshin9]

Engraver - Thanks. I'm going to change the orientation of the CPU block to see how much that changes things. Can you take a look at the current picture and tell me if the pump inlet and outlet is correct? It appears to work the way it is, but if the instructions were backwards, that could be a problem. It wouldn't be the first time I got instructions telling me how to do things backwards.

Aigomorla - I've taken a picture of my setup. Sorry about the quality. I've misplaced my digital camera so I had to use the camera on my laptop. I'm using the Apogee for the e6600, MCW30 for the northbridge, MCW60 for X1900GT, MCR-220 radiator, and MCP-655-B pump. I have a proper mixture of distilled water and Swiftech's HydrX. Like I said previously, I am currently running on stock speeds and at 1.3Vcore.


http://i12.photobucket.com/alb...enshinx9/Picture03.jpg



EDIT: There's one tube that you probably can't see that goes from the northbridge to the X1900GT, and so it might look kinda weird. I have it set up as...

Pump > NB > VGA > Radiator > CPU > Reservoir > Pump

 

[Elfear]

IMO your radiator is fine. I've had two voltmodded X1900XT's and an E6600 in a loop with a radiator about the size of yours and temps were great (dual Orthos was 46C with E6600@3.6Ghz 1.365V actual). I'd be more apt to think that there might be too much restriction in your loop. Chipset blocks are pretty notorious for being restrictive. I'm not familiar with the MCW30 but I'd try taking it out of the loop and see what happens. I've never seen much gain from a chipset block anyway.

Another thing that I would check is the flatness of your IHS. The early C2D's were pretty hit and miss that way. I haven't heard lately but it might be worth checking out. The best way I've found to do that is to apply the thermal grease with a card so that it is spread evenly and than mount the block. After you've cinched it down as far as you usually do, unmount the block and carefully take it off so that you can see the pattern of the grease on the bottom of the block. You can do this with the tubing in place if they are long enough.

I saw huge drops in temp with my QX6700 after I found the IHS to be concave and I lapped it. I also hardmounted the block until I got an even spread of thermal grease. Might be worth a try.

 

[aigomorla]

its not his mcw30.

Im also starting to guess on the IHS.

I dont see anything wrong with his waterblocks. And im being quite honest here. Something in your system is seriously out of wack. Did you perform a proper cleaning b4 you installed your gear? Another guess im goign to take is that your cpu block pins might be clogged?

Any chance you can give me the temps on the X1900XT? im trying to see if that thing is indeed hogging up your temps.


Also the MCW60 + MCW30 are very good chipblocks. There the lowest in restriction in there classes. Are you running a reservoir? is there any chance you can drop a thermometer in the opening and get a accurate coolant temp? That might be the last bit of info i need to help you work this out.

 

[kenshin9]

Elfear - That's a good idea. I'll try that. I actually remember reading about that, but I thought that it would have been solved by now. It's worth trying anyway. Is there a particular guide that you would recommend?

Aigomorla - Everything has been properly cleaned. I used 91% isopropyl alcohol and did a last wipe with a coffee filter since it's lint free. The computer has been running for a few hours. The temps on my X1900GT are currently at 45C. According to speedfan, the CPU is at 37C, and the cores have an average of 42C. I put a thermometer into the reservoir, and it's at about 40C.

I've turned the Apogee as previously suggested, and those are my current temps. I mentioned a spike to 69C up there, and it has only happened once. I believe that was false reading, but I'm not positive. Again, thanks for your time in helping me out.

 

[Elfear]

Originally posted by: kenshin9
Elfear - That's a good idea. I'll try that. I actually remember reading about that, but I thought that it would have been solved by now. It's worth trying anyway. Is there a particular guide that you would recommend?

Here are a few lapping guides that proved very useful to me:

Cathar's Method Cathar is one of the watercooling masters if you've never heard of him.

XS Thread

Freecableguy's Method Freecableguy is a well-known overclocker over at XS

General Guide

Another XS Thread

I personally used Cathar's method as he has more experience with waterblocks and cpus than I have knowledge combined about all subjects. If the thermal grease pattern doesn't appear very uniform on your waterblock when you test it a few times, lapping would probably help a lot.

 

[Engraver]

Originally posted by: kenshin9
Engraver - Thanks. I'm going to change the orientation of the CPU block to see how much that changes things. Can you take a look at the current picture and tell me if the pump inlet and outlet is correct? It appears to work the way it is, but if the instructions were backwards, that could be a problem. It wouldn't be the first time I got instructions telling me how to do things backwards.

Aigomorla - I've taken a picture of my setup. Sorry about the quality. I've misplaced my digital camera so I had to use the camera on my laptop. I'm using the Apogee for the e6600, MCW30 for the northbridge, MCW60 for X1900GT, MCR-220 radiator, and MCP-655-B pump. I have a proper mixture of distilled water and Swiftech's HydrX. Like I said previously, I am currently running on stock speeds and at 1.3Vcore.


http://i12.photobucket.com/alb...enshinx9/Picture03.jpg



EDIT: There's one tube that you probably can't see that goes from the northbridge to the X1900GT, and so it might look kinda weird. I have it set up as...

Pump > NB > VGA > Radiator > CPU > Reservoir > Pump

Your pump is setup right, and everything else looks fine as well. Temps seem odd now that I've seen your innards. We have pretty much the same WC setup except you seem to be using 1/2" tubing compared to my 3/8". Could you post a picture of your radiator when you get a chance?

Edit: Just remembered to ask, did you properly bleed your system? I thought mine was completely air free at first, but I happened to tip my computer at a 45 degree or so angle to check something, and a huge surge of air bubbles were released from somewhere along the loop.

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: kenshin9
Elfear - That's a good idea. I'll try that. I actually remember reading about that, but I thought that it would have been solved by now. It's worth trying anyway. Is there a particular guide that you would recommend?

Aigomorla - Everything has been properly cleaned. I used 91% isopropyl alcohol and did a last wipe with a coffee filter since it's lint free. The computer has been running for a few hours. The temps on my X1900GT are currently at 45C. According to speedfan, the CPU is at 37C, and the cores have an average of 42C. I put a thermometer into the reservoir, and it's at about 40C.

I've turned the Apogee as previously suggested, and those are my current temps. I mentioned a spike to 69C up there, and it has only happened once. I believe that was false reading, but I'm not positive. Again, thanks for your time in helping me out.

You got a radiator problem them. Your stressing that sucker.

Coolant temp shouldnt be higher then 33-35C IMO. Your at 40C = 104F
Your ambient is 28C = 82.4

Your delta on coolant is WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY too high. At most 10C should be MAX.

So yeah, with coolant temps at that high, your temps seem about right.

But yeah, my original guess was correct. You need a new RAD. :


This is my professional recomendation. And on this forum, with the exception of a few, i think i have the most knowlege in this area.

You need a new rad. Your coolant temps are way too high, unless your running ambients near 90F. Which isnt possible because you stated "Ambient is no more than 28C in my room"

Or Another guess is your radiator doesnt have enough CFM pushed though them to disapate heat. There is nothign wrong with flow. Its your coolant temp. Try turning up the fans on the radiator. OR put a Large fan next to it for a experiment. See if pushing more air though the radiators will help with temps.

 

[Elfear]

Originally posted by: aigomorla
You need a new rad. Your coolant temps are way too high, unless your running ambients near 90F. Which isnt possible because you stated "Ambient is no more than 28C in my room"

Or Another guess is your radiator doesnt have enough CFM pushed though them to disapate heat. There is nothign wrong with flow. Its your coolant temp. Try turning up the fans on the radiator. OR put a Large fan next to it for a experiment. See if pushing more air though the radiators will help with temps.

I'm not so sure that the OP needs a new rad. It's pretty rare that I see a triple rad used in systems and most do just fine with a double rad using some pretty hot components. I have a similar sized rad and it's worked great with components that dissipate more energy than the OP's.

I do think aigomorla's point about airflow is a something worth checking out. What fans are you using on your rad and how are they attached to it?

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: Elfear

Originally posted by: aigomorla
You need a new rad. Your coolant temps are way too high, unless your running ambients near 90F. Which isnt possible because you stated "Ambient is no more than 28C in my room"

Or Another guess is your radiator doesnt have enough CFM pushed though them to disapate heat. There is nothign wrong with flow. Its your coolant temp. Try turning up the fans on the radiator. OR put a Large fan next to it for a experiment. See if pushing more air though the radiators will help with temps.

I'm not so sure that the OP needs a new rad. It's pretty rare that I see a triple rad used in systems and most do just fine with a double rad using some pretty hot components. I have a similar sized rad and it's worked great with components that dissipate more energy than the OP's.

I do think aigomorla's point about airflow is a something worth checking out. What fans are you using on your rad and how are they attached to it?

well, i told you the math doesnt work out.

And my numbers are fairly accurate. The cpu overclocked will put out around 110W. The RAdiator is only efficient at cooling 130-150W.

His X1900XT puts out way more then the 20-40W.

Another reason on why it works for you is because of his loop order. He is cooling his GPU's first and then the CPU. So the GPU is adding around 70-100W???? i know the number is somewhere in there. And then it goes to the CPU. Then it goes to the radiator.

You see he's collecting heat b4 it hits his cpu. Also, his coolant temp is way too high for what it should be. When i wrote that my coolant cooling a quadcore overclocked was no higher then 30C.


So its a radiator problem. Unless you want to double check my math. But when it comes to watercooling, 90% of the time im usually correct.

And no im not being egotistic about that last statement. I usually am correct 90% of the time. :]

 

[Elfear]

Originally posted by: aigomorla

well, i told you the math doesnt work out.

And my numbers are fairly accurate. The cpu overclocked will put out around 110W. The RAdiator is only efficient at cooling 130-150W.

His X1900XT puts out way more then the 20-40W.

Another reason on why it works for you is because of his loop order. He is cooling his GPU's first and then the CPU. So the GPU is adding around 70-100W???? i know the number is somewhere in there. And then it goes to the CPU. Then it goes to the radiator.

You see he's collecting heat b4 it hits his cpu. Also, his coolant temp is way too high for what it should be. When i wrote that my coolant cooling a quadcore overclocked was no higher then 30C.

Just to clarify, the OP has the X1900GT which dissipates less energy than an XT (~75W according to X-bit labs). Not a big deal but I just want to make sure we're on the same page.

According to Swiftech, the MCR220 can dissipate ~250W even at very low flow rates (i.e., around .5gpm). With flowrates in the 1.5gpm range, the MCR220 can dissipate ~300W. Link

The MCP655 flows ~1.6gpm in a loop with a Storm and radiator (not sure what model was used). Link The Storm is a very restrictive block but the OP is running three blocks in his loop so the results will vary a little. So his current setup should be able to dissipate from 250-300W of energy.

If we assume that the E6600 is dissipating ~65W (stock speeds and voltage), video card is ~75W, and 20-30W for the chipset, it looks like only 170W needs to be dissipated which the rad should easily handle.

The problem could still be the airflow though. From the charts provided by Swiftech, it looks like thermal efficiency of the rad goes down a lot when the fans are run at 5V and 7V. OP, let us know what your fan setup is.

One last thing, the loop order does not matter except that the res should generally come before the pump. Only a few degrees gets added to the loop from beginning to end so his gpu really isn't affecting the cpu.

 

[kenshin9]

Hey guys. Sorry, I haven't been able to get to the computer. I'm using the 120mm fans that came with the Gigabyte Aurora. They spin at about 1000rpm, but I can't say for sure what the CFM is. The radiator is mounted right onto the back of the case. I cut off the mesh on the back of of the case, so the two rear fans blow air out right through the radiator. Just to clarify, aigomorla, the water reaches the radiator before it gets to the CPU. I will try experimenting with more air through the radiator. And perhaps I could try running the system with a different video card and without that GPU water block attached. But any further input would be great.

 

[Elfear]

Originally posted by: kenshin9
Hey guys. Sorry, I haven't been able to get to the computer. I'm using the 120mm fans that came with the Gigabyte Aurora. They spin at about 1000rpm, but I can't say for sure what the CFM is. The radiator is mounted right onto the back of the case. I cut off the mesh on the back of of the case, so the two rear fans blow air out right through the radiator. Just to clarify, aigomorla, the water reaches the radiator before it gets to the CPU. I will try experimenting with more air through the radiator. And perhaps I could try running the system with a different video card and without that GPU water block attached. But any further input would be great.

You probably need to get some new fans. IIRC the fans that come with the Aurora case are pretty weak. The radiator also functions better with a shroud and with the fans pulling the air through it rather than pushing it. Space constraints may not allow you to have that configuration but if possible that is the way I'd set it up. At the very least I'd get some better fans. If you can fit them, I'd recommend some 38mm thick Panaflos or Sanyo Denkis (needs a fan controller for quiet operation). They push a lot of air for the decibel level.

 

[aigomorla]

Originally posted by: Elfear

Originally posted by: aigomorla

well, i told you the math doesnt work out.

And my numbers are fairly accurate. The cpu overclocked will put out around 110W. The RAdiator is only efficient at cooling 130-150W.

His X1900XT puts out way more then the 20-40W.

Another reason on why it works for you is because of his loop order. He is cooling his GPU's first and then the CPU. So the GPU is adding around 70-100W???? i know the number is somewhere in there. And then it goes to the CPU. Then it goes to the radiator.

You see he's collecting heat b4 it hits his cpu. Also, his coolant temp is way too high for what it should be. When i wrote that my coolant cooling a quadcore overclocked was no higher then 30C.

Just to clarify, the OP has the X1900GT which dissipates less energy than an XT (~75W according to X-bit labs). Not a big deal but I just want to make sure we're on the same page.

According to Swiftech, the MCR220 can dissipate ~250W even at very low flow rates (i.e., around .5gpm). With flowrates in the 1.5gpm range, the MCR220 can dissipate ~300W. Link

The MCP655 flows ~1.6gpm in a loop with a Storm and radiator (not sure what model was used). Link The Storm is a very restrictive block but the OP is running three blocks in his loop so the results will vary a little. So his current setup should be able to dissipate from 250-300W of energy.

If we assume that the E6600 is dissipating ~65W (stock speeds and voltage), video card is ~75W, and 20-30W for the chipset, it looks like only 170W needs to be dissipated which the rad should easily handle.

The problem could still be the airflow though. From the charts provided by Swiftech, it looks like thermal efficiency of the rad goes down a lot when the fans are run at 5V and 7V. OP, let us know what your fan setup is.

One last thing, the loop order does not matter except that the res should generally come before the pump. Only a few degrees gets added to the loop from beginning to end so his gpu really isn't affecting the cpu.

*sigh* You got a good arguement.

But you do realize you should only half load on what the max raited on the radiator is right? Or it will get a bit too hot.

But the hey if those temps are fine with you then be my guest. AS i said you can try to replace the fans, but i promise you, that it wont improve his temps that greatly. At most 3-4C?

-Peace.



Also there is no shroud for the MCR220. I believe only thermochills makes on. Unless you custom a shroud.