Teenager shot dead after playing loud music

[Geosurface]

You know you guys do actually make a reasonably good point about why didn't they RAPIDLY try to get Jordan help, try to save his life.

I guess that could be something else which points to them having other concerns, namely "shit gotta hide this stuff before the cops get here and they'll be here any minute"

But I think it's also compatible with them just being shell shocked.

Who knows.

 

[TerryMathews]

By what you wrote it appears you're saying that you agree with an individual owning a butterfly being charged with dozens, maybe hundreds or even thousands of murders if our technology becomes sufficiently advanced to trace causality back that far.

By your logic, Hitler never murdered a Jew. Is that what you really mean?

It must be wonderful to live in a black and white world where reducto ad absurdum solves everything. Send me an email from the looney bin once in a while OK?

 

[Theb]

@all of you. Let's describe the events without using the descriptions from either side.

Something happened, and Dunn opened fire on Davis in the SUV. The SUV fled and Dunn continued to fire.

Perimortem, the SUV returned as did some of their friends and family.

It sounds more like they returned with reinforcements after Davis died.

Wow, these teens who have never been convicted of a violent crime sure sound dangerous in your mind. With their friend dead or dying in the back seat and their gun(s) stashed and the police likely coming they head back to fight an armed man.

 

[TerryMathews]

Sure they have. Including myself. You've just chosen to summarily dismiss every one of them. Several people have said they believe they returned to the closest place to get help since the person shooting at them had fled the scene.

And what sense does that make?

What sort of first aid was available at that location?

You're right, I did dismiss it. Ive addressed why. It makes no sense if they were moving for them to not drive to an ER.

 

[Capt Caveman]

You're entitled to your opinion as I am mine, am I not.

No one else has laid out a concrete theory that explains why they returned to the scene where Davis was murdered. At least i tried.

Not finding a weapon would have been far more compelling if the scene were searched immediately, not four days later.

Why would they search for a firearm immediately? The only one that said there was a gun was Dunn. Guess what, he fled the scene and didn't call the police, His own fault Thankfully, someone got his licence plate number.

 

[WHAMPOM]

@all of you. Let's describe the events without using the descriptions from either side.

Something happened, and Dunn opened fire on Davis in the SUV. The SUV fled and Dunn continued to fire.

Perimortem, the SUV returned as did some of their friends and family.

It sounds more like they returned with reinforcements after Davis died.

Ya mean called 911 then called friends and family? Sounds like a bunch of kids calling for "Mommy" after a bad thing happens.

 

[blankslate]

There's two different levels of attempted murder so it could be he's allowing them to consider the lesser level.

As I recall, feel feel to correct me if I am mistaken, the jury was deadlocked on one charge. Mr. Dunn was charged with one count of murder and 3 counts of attempted murder.

It's likely that the deadlocked charge is murder one and they want clarification on if their decisions on the settled charge should have an impact on the deadlocked charge.

Given the above they're likely considering lesser charges in regards to Murder One and seeing if they can agree on a lesser charge in place of that rather than trying to consider lesser versions of attempted murder.

Just an interpretation that seems likelier, imo of course, when there is one deadlocked charge and the total charges are 3 attempted murder charges and one murder charge.



......

 

[Exophase]

@all of you. Let's describe the events without using the descriptions from either side.

Something happened, and Dunn opened fire on Davis in the SUV. The SUV fled and Dunn continued to fire.

Perimortem, the SUV returned as did some of their friends and family.

It sounds more like they returned with reinforcements after Davis died.

Let's say they did return with reinforcements, something there's zero evidence for but let's claim it for the sake of argument. That doesn't change anything regarding whether or not Dunn's justification in applying self defense. They're not the ones on trial.

 

[Ichinisan]

Oh look! Some kids were playing their loud music! Kill them!

When I was younger I used to pump gas, and we got all kinds of idiots. I had people who would blare their loud music while I pumped their gas. I never once thought that my life was in danger. I even had 5 black teens who after they got gas told me that there should be black people on American money. I chuckled and the one said "who are you laughing at?" I still didn't feel threatened.

This was in NJ. 🙂

*What probably happened is Dunn was pissed off at something. I am sure alcohol was involved. Those kids were at the wrong spot and they messed with the wrong guy.

If...if a group of teens started yelling insults and threatening you while going for a "shotgun" they claimed to have, would you then feel threatened?

If.

Oh look! Some kids were playing their loud music! Kill them!

You know why that summarized narrative sounds so silly? Because it really is very silly. It should be difficult to believe something like that. I honestly don't know why so many people latch onto it as the only possibility.

Did that possibly happen? I say "absolutely." I also say it's extremely unlikely that we're getting the full story from either side.

 

[Exophase]

Wow. Perhaps you should pay more attention to the trial.

Second... Double standard much?

I should pay more attention to what? If you're going to call me wrong on something explain what you're talking about or keep it to yourself.

And double standard.. are you kidding me? If Davis called him a "cracker" or "honke" or something (hard for me to even type this with a straight face but whatever) maybe you'd have an argument that he was using a racial slur, although it'd be hard to argue that it was intended with the same impact. If you really can't tell the difference between a white person using that word against a black person and the opposite then you're looking at things far too superficially.

The intention and tone behind a word actually does matter. I guess we should be critical of dictionaries that list derogatory words for being derogatory, anything less would be a double standard...

 

[WackyDan]

You're entitled to your opinion as I am mine, am I not.

No one else has laid out a concrete theory that explains why they returned to the scene where Davis was murdered. At least i tried.

Not finding a weapon would have been far more compelling if the scene were searched immediately, not four days later.

Four days later... = reasonable doubt.

 

[TerryMathews]

Why would they search for a firearm immediately? The only one that said there was a gun was Dunn. Guess what, he fled the scene and didn't call the police, His own fault Thankfully, someone got his licence plate number.

Yes, I have acknowledged that Dunn bears a large portion of responsibility for not reporting the shooting however I would think securing and properly searching the crime scene would be SOP for any murder investigation.

 

[TerryMathews]

Wow, these teens who have never been convicted of a violent crime sure sound dangerous in your mind. With their friend dead or dying in the back seat and their gun(s) stashed and the police likely coming they head back to fight an armed man.

Yeah. It'd would've made far more sense to get their dead or dying friend help wouldn't it?

 

[blankslate]

I don't think any of us who see there may have been justifiable use of deadly force fail to see that. I think we all know that was a huge mistake on Dunn's part.

I disagree there is at least one person who frequents this board who demonstrates a gleeful attitude about people being shot in self defense situations.

I understand the necessity and that there are justifiable shootings (and I would not hesitate to use deadly force if a stranger broke into my residence) but when you're gleeful that a person is dead sorry you're damaged in some way.


....

 

[TerryMathews]

Ya mean called 911 then called friends and family? Sounds like a bunch of kids calling for "Mommy" after a bad thing happens.

I meant what I said.

 

[Exophase]

Yeah. It'd would've made far more sense to get their dead or dying friend help wouldn't it?

Yeah dead people need all the help they can get. Maybe they were on their way to the hospital, then realized it was too late.

 

[TerryMathews]

Let's say they did return with reinforcements, something there's zero evidence for but let's claim it for the sake of argument. That doesn't change anything regarding whether or not Dunn's justification in applying self defense. They're not the ones on trial.

Again I never said it excused Dunn's firing at the retreating SUV.

 

[WackyDan]

I should pay more attention to what? If you're going to call me wrong on something explain what you're talking about or keep it to yourself.

And double standard.. are you kidding me? If Davis called him a "cracker" or "honke" or something (hard for me to even type this with a straight face but whatever) maybe you'd have an argument that he was using a racial slur, although it'd be hard to argue that it was intended with the same impact. If you really can't tell the difference between a white person using that word against a black person and the opposite then you're looking at things far too superficially.

The intention and tone behind a word actually does matter. I guess we should be critical of dictionaries that list derogatory words for being derogatory, anything less would be a double standard...

Derogatory regardless of who uses it. To you first point. Davis called Dunn a cracker in his rant. Pay attention.

 

[TerryMathews]

Yeah dead people need all the help they can get. Maybe they were on their way to the hospital, then realized it was too late.

So then what was the purpose of the return trip?

 

[Exophase]

Again I never said it excused Dunn's firing at the retreating SUV.

Then what bearing does it have on this trial? Any? Why are you bringing it up?

So then what was the purpose of the return trip?

Maybe they knew police would want to be there anyway? Maybe that was the easiest place they could go to to meet with police? Maybe they were hoping to see police arrest this guy?

If they WERE going back to get revenge then calling the police first makes no sense, why would they invite the police to witness that?

 

[WHAMPOM]

You know you guys do actually make a reasonably good point about why didn't they RAPIDLY try to get Jordan help, try to save his life.

I guess that could be something else which points to them having other concerns, namely "shit gotta hide this stuff before the cops get here and they'll be here any minute"

But I think it's also compatible with them just being shell shocked.

Who knows.

Panicked teens yelling at each other "WHAT JUST HAPPENED!, WHAT DO WE DO!, DAT GUY SHOT AT US!, DAVIS YO'DONT LOOK SO GOOD? OH FUCK!, OH FUCK!, OH FUCK!".

Some one having the presence of mind to recognize Davis"s condition and jabbing his finger into the wound to slow the bleeding while calling for an ER run is not quite what I would expect. But then I don't have Geo's imagination.

 

[Jaskalas]

If there was a gun as he claims (and, apparently, it's quite possible -- maybe even likely), then what steps should he take to secure the evidence so he can rightfully defend himself? Does he have to execute them all so they can't get away with the gun?

So you mean shooting at the fleeing truck was justified, in your opinion?

When it comes to SYG and you take preemptive action before an actual threat is realized by weapon or acts of aggression then you run the risk of the evidence not matching.

If Mr. Dunn had simply fled, attempted to flee, or made any effort to deescalate the situation instead of engaging and then preemptively killing a teen, then the proof I'm seeking would be much more clear. It becomes self evident if they aggress upon him in any way.

He didn't give them the chance to even prove their intent. Maybe for him as he saw it, but not for any of us trying to judge his actions now. I cannot just accept the killing of a person on the word of another. We've got to have more to work with than that.

I do not find the killing of another to be a sort of " shall issue" occurrence. It must be reasonable, and I want proof that it was.

 

[WackyDan]

I disagree there is at least one person who frequents this board who demonstrates a gleeful attitude about people being shot in self defense situations.

I understand the necessity and that there are justifiable shootings (and I would not hesitate to use deadly force if a stranger broke into my residence) but when you're gleeful that a person is dead sorry you're damaged in some way.


....

Fair point. However, when a someone is killed when they are the one in commission of a crime I don't weep for them or their family. In fact, I might think that it was their choice, their lesson to learn... and that thanks to an officer of the law, or an armed citizen that the perp won't live to victimize anyone ever again... Not knowing whether the next robbery, threat, etc would result in that now dead perp having killed an innocent person.

So I don't rejoice... But I am satisfied that justice was done. I think that is the difference there.

 

[Exophase]

Derogatory regardless of who uses it. To you first point. Davis called Dunn a cracker in his rant. Pay attention.

That word in question being derogatory regardless of who uses it is a total load of crap. Black people use it in a friendly manner all the time, no way is that derogatory.

Are there transcripts for the court anywhere? Much of the time when I'm here I can't listen to videos of things. Is this cracker quote alleged by more than Dunn? All I've seen confirmed is that initial comment made by Davis with the n-word.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Panicked teens yelling at each other "WHAT JUST HAPPENED!, WHAT DO WE DO!, DAT GUY SHOT AT US!, DAVIS YO'DONT LOOK SO GOOD? OH FUCK!, OH FUCK!, OH FUCK!".

Some one having the presence of mind to recognize Davis"s condition and jabbing his finger into the wound to slow the bleeding while calling for an ER run is not quite what I would expect. But then I don't have Geo's imagination.

They give Dunn the benefit of the doubt for running/not staying to call 911, not calling the police at the hotel even though they feared for their lives, etc...

But these thugs, they weren't afraid, panicking or anything. They were supposed to know what to do. Heck, they were so calm they hid a weapon and came back to the scene of the crime to make it look they were the innocent ones. And they were faking the emotion in the 911 call.