Teenager shot dead after playing loud music

[HumblePie]

There's nothing "funny" about questioning the credibility of Dunn after he fled the scene.
Consider this: if a driver killed someone in a hit and run and wasn't caught until a day or 2 later, and witnesses testified that the driver had been drinking before the accident, but the driver denied drinking on the stand, would you believe him?

I didn't say it was "funny", I said juries do "funny" things in respect to following the letter of the law. They don't always do so. Which is why jury nullifications happen if proven a jury came back with a verdict that didn't follow the law.

 

[Daverino]

However a hung jury means he walks out with the legal presumption of his being not guilty. Prosecutor has the option to retry if he wants, but I would imagine that being not likely in a case like this.

Bottom line is that one juror can set Dunn free.

I disagree. I believe that the state would retry this one. I don't think anyone in the Florida Department of Justice wants this to become case law. They'd never get another murder conviction.

 

[Bird222]

Why would this result in different ANGLE though? Clustering being more widely set apart sure, why a different ANGLE?

Oh I don't know because he was still trying to aim at the person in the rear of the car.

 

[HumblePie]

Sorry but she testified that he said that phrase from her initial interview with the police. And has kept a consistent story through-out. Dunn is the one that was caught lying multiple times when he testified yesterday.

She did state "thug" in her initial police interview. Messing up a descriptive detail like that about which word actually said isn't a specific lie all the time. It could be a lie, or it could just be a fuck up which happens. A fuck up is an inconsistency that doesn't really mean jack.

 

[HumblePie]

I disagree. I believe that the state would retry this one. I don't think anyone in the Florida Department of Justice wants this to become case law. They'd never get another murder conviction.

Hyperbole much again? Self defense cases have always been difficult to prosecute. It's the nature of how self defense laws work. Prosecutors have successfully got convictions before on self defense case,s and they will after this one. In any case that they get a conviction it should be because they disproved the claim of self defense beyond a reasonable doubt.

 

[hal2kilo]

Scared idiots buying guns because rightwing media tells them are random thug attacks. Hopefully these people only accidentally kill a family member or themselves with it instead of a random person on the street.

More than likely how it will be used.

Edit Posting with a Nook sucks!

 

[Geosurface]

Oh I don't know because he was still trying to aim at the person in the rear of the car.

Dunn says he didn't realize the truck had started backing up because of tunnel vision and how fast it all happened until he'd fired the sixth shot, then he stopped that burst.

He didn't notice right away that the front door was now occupying the space the rear door (Davis' door) had previously been occupying.

This makes perfect sense.

So his target was always the same, his angle was always the same.

Especially when you hear how tightly clustered those first 6 shots are.

 

[Vic]

However a hung jury means he walks out with the legal presumption of his being not guilty. Prosecutor has the option to retry if he wants, but I would imagine that being not likely in a case like this.

Bottom line is that one juror can set Dunn free.

I dunno, I think they would retry if it were only 1 or 2 jurors.

There are multiple charges here, with all lesser included, so we'll see..

 

[TerryMathews]

I disagree. I believe that the state would retry this one. I don't think anyone in the Florida Department of Justice wants this to become case law. They'd never get another murder conviction.

Typically they retry a case when something new was discovered during trial or some piece of testimony didnt go they way they wanted to. Basically, when they feel that a retrial will have a high probability of success.

Is there anything that happened during this trial you think the prosecution can improve on during a second trial?

Also think about your own point from a different direction. He gets acquitted, prosecutor can say "Eh, juries. You can lead a horse to water, you can't make em drink."

What does he say if Dunn gets acquitted twice?

 

[TerryMathews]

I dunno, I think they would retry if it were only 1 or 2 jurors.

There are multiple charges here, with all lesser included, so we'll see..

Please note, I didnt say I believe he will walk out. I believe he will be found guilty of something. That said, it could happen.

 

[Geosurface]

Dunn testified that he could see directly through the back of the SUV.
Dunn testified that he could see the passenger on the left side of the SUV and see him scowl at him.
Dunn testified that he shot two-handed across his chest, no over his shoulder.
Dunn testified that there was not enough space between the vehicles to fully open his door.ve to fire at a a 45 degree angle over his left shoulder.

Multiple witnesses including Tevin Thompson the front seat passenger of the Durango attest that Dunn was lined up with his seat, not Jordan's.

But it is possible they're being imprecise in their memory and language, and that Dunn's door had basically landed about halfway between their two doors:

Or not halfway but y'know, more lined up with Tevin's window than with Jordan's, but not entirely one or the other.

Such a situation might allow everything you're claiming cannot be possible to be very possible. It would be nice if we could use the same two vehicles in the same parking spots and do some tests, unfortunately we can't.

 

[HomerJS]

So Dunn pulls into the parking spot next to a Durango with 4 white kids in it, one of whom is my former Navy barracks roommate. The other three are of like mind. Trashy white guys, tatted up, shirtless as often as they can get away with, constantly smoking cigarettes, loud, obnoxious, confrontational. Guys who are always trying to score Vicodin and Oxycontin, etc.

And, they're blasting Dubstep music at outrageous levels of bass exactly equivalent to the rap Dunn encountered (and believe me, my roommate did this - every fucking day.)

Your belief is that Dunn is utterly unmoved by this? Not bothered at all? Or at least, not bothered once he sees they're white kids?

Or are you saying he doesn't ask them to turn it down?

Or is it that you're saying that after he politely asks like he did Davis' crew, and one of them threatens to kill him for it, he lets him do it rather than grabbing for his gun?



She never said he said "I hate that negro thug music" she said he said "I hate that thug music" - very fucking different as you know.

First of all if both cars have windows up you may be annoyed but it won't cause pain. If I have sensitive ears I just go in the store or park somewhere else. It ain't that complicated.

Dunn claims Davis threatened to kill him but...

Dunn also said he couldn't hear everything.
Dunn said he hated thug music so it goes to mindset.

If I pull up next to a pickup truck with stars and bars on the outside and the guys inside are polishing their guns, I don't roll down the window and ask them to put guns away (accidental discharge), I just move to a different parking spot.

 

[HumblePie]

First of all if both cars have windows up you may be annoyed but it won't cause pain. If I have sensitive ears I just go in the store or park somewhere else. It ain't that complicated.

Dunn claims Davis threatened to kill him but...

Dunn also said he couldn't hear everything.
Dunn said he hated thug music so it goes to mindset.

If I pull up next to a pickup truck with stars and bars on the outside and the guys inside are polishing their guns, I don't roll down the window and ask them to put guns away (accidental discharge), I just move to a different parking spot.

SUV back window that Davis was sitting in was broke and didn't go up. The back window was down and thus allowing the music to be louder outside the vehicle than if the window had been rolled up.

 

[HomerJS]

SUV back window that Davis was sitting in was broke and didn't go up. The back window was down and thus allowing the music to be louder outside the vehicle than if the window had been rolled up.

Even so it won't cause pain to someone with normal hearing.

 

[Geosurface]

Even so it won't cause pain to someone with normal hearing.

Dunn has an ear injury in his right ear from a scuba diving thing when he was younger, and his left ear is more sensitive to compensate. It was hurting his left ear.

It doesn't need to have been, for him to have found it annoying and ask for a common courtesy as a citizen of a supposedly civilized society, asking someone else who is supposedly a civilized citizen of that society.

Doing so may seem rude to you, made seem imprudent do you, may seem douchey, whatever... but it is neither illegal nor a justification for him to have his life threatened let alone taken.

 

[Exophase]

All the self defense claims are based on what a "reasonable person" would feel/do.

IMO a "reasonable person" with eardrum issues who hates "negro/thug music" would not park next to a car with "ear thumping booming bass". His attitude was "fuck them, not only am I going to park there I'm going to order them to turn that shit down".

Well no, not really, the question is if a reasonable person would have felt threatened in that situation. Not if a reasonable person would have gotten into that situation in the first place. Similar to how there's no duty to flee (in Florida) even if a reasonable person would have pulled the car out when feeling threatened, instead of grabbing his gun from the glove compartment, loading it, and firing (or at least I know I would have)

There are still cases where you forfeit self defense immunity based on your actions, like if you start swinging at a guy then later realize he's stronger than you, but this shouldn't fall under that. But I don't think Dunn forfeit anything by asking them to turn the music down, even if it wasn't very smart.

 

[Capt Caveman]

She did state "thug" in her initial police interview. Messing up a descriptive detail like that about which word actually said isn't a specific lie all the time. It could be a lie, or it could just be a fuck up which happens. A fuck up is an inconsistency that doesn't really mean jack.

Jack? Called credibility. When all testimony up til Dunn took the stand, said one thing. Then contradicts prior testimony and then caught lying about calling his legal friend, his credibility goes out the door.

 

[Exophase]

Probably because you and Exo have shown a 12 year old mental age?

What? 🙁 You meant Geo, right....?

 

[bshole]

Is it possible to get an unbiased white person on a jury in the south? Every hour that passes, the more likely it is that there is a hung jury. Sadly my gut instincts are looking more likely by the minute. C'mon guys can you do the right thing just this once?

 

[spidey07]

Is it possible to get an unbiased white person on a jury in the south? Every hour that passes, the more likely it is that there is a hung jury. Sadly my gut instincts are looking more likely by the minute. C'mon guys can you do the right thing just this once?

The prosecution showed no evidence that disproves self defense. The right thing is to return not guilty. And maybe guilty on reckless endangerment for the shots at the car afterward.

 

[rudeguy]

The prosecution showed no evidence that disproves self defense. The right thing is to return not guilty. And maybe guilty on reckless endangerment for the shots at the car afterward.

wouldn't shooting at someone be attempted murder?

 

[Geosurface]

Is it possible to get an unbiased white person on a jury in the south? Every hour that passes, the more likely it is that there is a hung jury. Sadly my gut instincts are looking more likely by the minute. C'mon guys can you do the right thing just this once?

The right thing would be an acquittal on all charges. Well, all except MAYBE the firing into an occupied dwelling thing. I'm not entirely clear on whether his self-defense rationale trumps that.

If he is convicted of murder one, two, or manslaughter then it means things which have no place in our justice system have seeped in. Things like:

1.) Consideration of the races of people involved.
2.) Consideration (by themselves or the other jurors) of the races of jurors on the case.
3.) Sympathy and feelings for Jordan's parents or for Jordan.
4.) Consideration of how the verdict will be received by the black community.
5.) Consideration of possible fallout from the verdict in the nation or locally.
6.) Personal dislike of Dunn or his lawyer.
7.) Trying to "win one for Trayvon"
8.) Failure to understand reasonable doubt.
9.) Failure to understand self-defense.

etc, etc etc.

As O'Mara said, properly following the law without emotion means an acquittal here.

If I was on that jury it would be either hung or an acquittal, period.

That wouldn't be me being racist, mean, or a nullifier, or anything else. It would be me following the law properly, and possibly being the only one to do so.

 

[Daverino]

What? 🙁 You meant Geo, right....?

Oops sorry. My bad totally. Yes I mean Geo.

 

[HumblePie]

Is it possible to get an unbiased white person on a jury in the south? Every hour that passes, the more likely it is that there is a hung jury. Sadly my gut instincts are looking more likely by the minute. C'mon guys can you do the right thing just this once?

As I pointed out previously...

I originally said 40-60 guilty vs hung jury and then switched to 60-40. Imma going to go back to 40-60, it is just too easy for one bigot to nullify the trial. As evidenced by this thread, NOTHING will change a bigots mind.

I sincerely hope the white folk on the jury do the right thing.

Your insistence to call others bigots because they may be trying to follow the letter of the law shows who is the real racist around here.

Just because someone is following the law as they see it doesn't make them a bias white person. From the moment you started calling everyone else who was looking rationally at what has been presented at trial instead of just foaming at the mouth while screaming "Guilty!" as racist, you are the only one showing the real traits of a racist.

 

[HumblePie]

wouldn't shooting at someone be attempted murder?

If they were intending to kill person they were shooting at. Technically Dunn was attempting to shoot and kill Davis, not the others. It's a fine line and one that could be cross in either direction. Whether he gets reckless endangerment or attempted murder if being acquitted of the murder charge against Davis will depend on if the prosecution was able to also show enough evidence that his additional shots could not be construed as self defense by a reasonable person anymore.

Me personally? I think Dunn's claim of continuing to fire in self defense is very weak. You shoot to stop a threat. Someone fleeing is no longer a threat. If they came back for him, then he could shoot again. If not, you let them go. This was something I stated when this thread originally started a year ago.