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Teenager shot dead after playing loud music

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Mixture of trauma haze, distance in time from event, subconscious processes of selective memory and white washing self-reinforcing justification.

I find nothing about it particularly damning and I find him very credible on the witness stand.
 
Vic said:
Besides the whole driving off bit, I think a couple things are particularly damaging for Dunn. First, his GF's testimony. Second, his total lack of empathy on the stand. His credibility is already in question. That was his opportunity to say he wished it could have been different but he had no choice, etc and he never did that. So far, the only way we know this guy has emotions is because he loves puppies.

OTOH, I do believe that he saved himself from the murder 1 charge today. However, each charge does include the lesser included charge. So my prediction is conviction for murder 2 along with the 3 counts of attempted.
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I suspect he will convicted of a lesser charge/s yet at the same tim I will not be surprised if the jury comes back with an acquittal or is hung.
 
How much you want to bet Jacksonville sheriffs dept was watching Sanford PD's fate with Chief Lee forced out, protesters in their lobby, and national hatred and it made them less disposed to giving Dunn any sort of fair hearing or benefit of the doubt. Like not searching parking lot for days.
 
Seriously, this guy would have been a lot better off just backing up then ramming the van from behind, if he felt threatened, and then claiming that was all an accident, and then shooting them with ample justification when they all attacked him for it. Not that I would endorse such actions, but it's just a lot more probable scenario for self defense, rather than going home and eating pizza and drinking beer.
 
SlickSnake said:
Seriously, this guy would have been a lot better off just backing up then ramming the van from behind
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That would work really well if there was a shotgun, which at that time he was utterly convinced of (and he may not have been wrong, or at least Davis may have wanted him to believe there was one.)
 
Geosurface said:
Agreed. I now believe more than ever that acquittal is appropriate but I still really doubt it happens.
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:thumbsup: I also think those that drive after drinking who kill people should be acquitted because they couldn't differentiate real danger from the intoxicated assumptions that they could drive safe in reality. If someone honestly thinks they are safe to drive who are we to tell them to not get behind the wheel? If them get into accidents and hurt people or property it should be excused especially if the driver sobers up for court and is humble and honestly thinks the other cars were threats to his life and freedoms.
 
Geosurface said:
Mixture of trauma haze, distance in time from event, subconscious processes of selective memory and white washing self-reinforcing justification.

I find nothing about it particularly damning and I find him very credible on the witness stand.
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Don't forget affluenza. Care to throw in the Chewbacca defense as well?
 
himkhan said:
:thumbsup: I also think those that drive after drinking who kill people should be acquitted because they couldn't differentiate real danger from the intoxicated assumptions that they could drive safe in reality. If someone honestly thinks they are safe to drive who are we to tell them to not get behind the wheel? If them get into accidents and hurt people or property it should be excused especially if the driver sobers up for court and is humble and honestly thinks the other cars were threats to his life and freedoms.
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How about a 17 year old high on pot and lean beating the brains out of somebody? Do you feel the same?
 
spidey07 said:
How about a 17 year old high on pot and lean beating the brains out of somebody? Do you feel the same?
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Holy flash back there spidey. Or you posting while Going Through Dee-Tees? You must mean that dead Black Martin kid, measured out 5'11" on the slab with a tiny trace of pot in his system, right?
 
SheHateMe said:
No surprise there
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Believe it or not I have actually struggled MUCH MORE than with the Zimmerman thing in deciding what I think on this case. It's true that I had already been moving more and more toward Dunn's corner in the last month or so, but his testimony really was a significant thing for me. I felt he came across as confident and honest, open and though not having a perfect memory (who would?) having a pretty believable and consistent account.

Did you watch much, if any, of his testimony on the stand?
 
Geosurface said:
Believe it or not I have actually struggled MUCH MORE than with the Zimmerman thing in deciding what I think on this case. It's true that I had already been moving more and more toward Dunn's corner in the last month or so, but his testimony really was a significant thing for me. I felt he came across as confident and honest, open and though not having a perfect memory (who would?) having a pretty believable and consistent account.

Did you watch much, if any, of his testimony on the stand?
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Did you watch ex-fiance refute almost all of Dunn's critical testimony?
 
HomerJS said:
Did you watch ex-fiance refute almost all of Dunn's critical testimony?
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I watched a woman who could barely hold it together on the witness stand and spent her entire time up there, both times she was called, sobbing and on the verge of a breakdown.

I think she appears to be a very sweet woman, but not exactly what you'd call savvy. Not a razor sharp intellect. Just sort of your average person. Reminds me a lot of one of my cousins, actually. Sweetest person you could ever meet, not one ounce of malice in her, but simply tone deaf about a lot of aspects of life.

I think Dunn's fiancee didn't realize how careful you have to be in your testimony, and that you can't just paraphrase what he said about the music if you're not sure, that doing so can be dangerous. Then again he may have said "I hate thug music" and is just trying to downplay it now, by taking the edge off. Or there could be a legitimate difference in what they each remember. That happens.

As for him telling her they had a weapon? Lots of possibilities there. He could be bullshitting to try to improve his situation, he could be convinced he told her several times when he actually only mentioned it like once amidst a rapid fire hailstorm of quick, nervous talk about what had happened. When I come out of a super stressful event or an embarrassing event, I tend to do a lot of going over what happened in my mind and doing a lot of that out loud. If I was forced to try to remember such an instance more than a year later, I might mix up things I was THINKING vs. things that actually came out of my mouth.

So he could be misremembering, she could be misremembering, he could be BSing, he could be right but she was so out of it at that point that she wasn't picking up everything he said... tons of possibilities.

Am I going out of my way to give him the benefit of the doubt because he's a middle aged businessman with no prior record who was happily coming from his son's wedding, and because the kid who got shot was confirmed by his friends to have been yelling abuse about Dunn and getting increasingly agitated, and his friend admits he was operating the door handle during this?

Yea, you bet your ass I am.

It's a lost art these days, but I still have the ability to discern who are productive members of society vs. who are menaces to it. Cops do too, but there's a lot of people working very hard to force them to stop using these understandings and common sense in their police work, unfortunately.

Could I have it wrong? Yea, I could. If I was on that jury would I feel his guilt had been proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Hell no.
 
At this point I can't really see how a rational jury does anything other than convict this guy. My guess is that their deliberations will be quite short.
 
More like she's crying b/c she knows her telling the truth is going to put Dunn away for good.

Only a racist would believe Dunn's testimony on the stand which contradicts his own prior testimony to police, recorded interviews and other eyewitnesses.

Yes, I feared for my life at the hotel so I left my gun in the car, ordered pizza and didn't call the police. Sure!
 
Geosurface said:
As for him telling her they had a weapon? Lots of possibilities there. He could be bullshitting to try to improve his situation, he could be convinced he told her several times when he actually only mentioned it like once amidst a rapid fire hailstorm of quick, nervous talk about what had happened. When I come out of a super stressful event or an embarrassing event, I tend to do a lot of going over what happened in my mind and doing a lot of that out loud. If I was forced to try to remember such an instance more than a year later, I might mix up things I was THINKING vs. things that actually came out of my mouth.
.
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I love it. You completely discount the 3 black witnesses who said there was no weapon. You then discount his own fiancee who has absolutely nothing to gain by saying no weapon was mentioned. Basically you have 4 witnesses all saying the same thing. The ONE witness who says there was a weapon has been caught in multiple lies and has a very obvious reason for saying there was a weapon. There was no weapon found at the scence. Given all of this, you have a DOUBT???!!!! Your doubt is completely UNREASONABLE.
 
eskimospy said:
At this point I can't really see how a rational jury does anything other than convict this guy. My guess is that their deliberations will be quite short.
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I don't know, all you need is one mental giant like Geosurface on the jury to fuck up a slam dunk conviction. It's called jury nullification and it happens most often in racially divisive trials.
 
I think people that really want to see Dunn get put away are seeing what they want to see. I think that people that want Dunn to get off scott free are seeing what they want to see.

What I saw? I saw something that could go either way of what I watched of the trial in my off time. Many mistakes by the defense. MANY. I also saw that the prosecution really only has circumstantial evidence and very limited amount in trying to surmount self defense plea by Dunn, as crappy a job as he did on the stand.

What my opinion is that it's going to come down to the jury and their personal biases based on the subject matter and what they saw. It really could go either way.

My personal take? There wasn't solid evidence from either side. The majority of evidence from either side is weak testimony. The forensics really don't help nor hurt either sides testimony. Which if I was on the jury, when the evidence for both sides is weak, I always will side with the defendant. Not that because I think he's innocent, but because that is how the justice system is suppose to work.

It really is going to come down to how well the lawyers sway the jury with their closing arguments. Horrible to think that justice will more than likely be done by a speech than facts regardless of the outcome.
 
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