Teenager shot dead after playing loud music

[HumblePie]

The fucker was trashed. I drink a single rum and coke every night and it gives me a nice buzz. 4 rum and cokes and you are fucked up.

So Humble, their is your testimony UNDER OATH. Put that in your pipe and smoke it. His intoxication explains damn near everything I need to know.

From the trial notes:

I drink 4 rum cokes in a few hours and I'm fine. 1 doesn't buzz me at all. I also drink the 90% proof parot bay stuff. I actually have a device that measures my BAC and it takes quite a bit for me to blow over the legal limit. Also, when the drink(s) were consumed makes a difference. It also matters on how those drinks were prepared. If they are mostly coke with a splash of rum, you might not get a full "serving" of alcohol in even 4 drinks. I know several bars that pull that crap.

And bshole, why the anger and aggression at me thus far? I've done nothing but present the evidence known and how it is applied to the law as I know it. I could care less if Dunn goes to jail or not. He will if the prosecution has the evidence. He won't if they don't. Simple as that.

 

[fskimospy]

I drink 4 rum cokes in a few hours and I'm fine. 1 doesn't buzz me at all. I also drink the 90% proof parot bay stuff. I actually have a device that measures my BAC and it takes quite a bit for me to blow over the legal limit. Also, when the drink(s) were consumed makes a difference. It also matters on how those drinks were prepared. If they are mostly coke with a splash of rum, you might not get a full "serving" of alcohol in even 4 drinks. I know several bars that pull that crap.

Just an FYI, most over the counter BAC measuring devices are hilariously inaccurate.

 

[HumblePie]

Just an FYI, most over the counter BAC measuring devices are hilariously inaccurate.

Except mine is the one used by SAPD... so?

 

[SpatiallyAware]

<snip>


And bshole, why the anger and aggression at me thus far? I've done nothing but present the evidence known and how it is applied to the law as I know it. I could care less if Dunn goes to jail or not. He will if the prosecution has the evidence. He won't if they don't. Simple as that.

He is fueled by racial hate. He doesn't care about the facts, the legal system, or anything other than the skin colors of those involved.

He is the "jking" of this situation.

 

[bshole]

I made an edit to my previous post. This will get shredded by the defense if that is what she said on the stand considering her original testimony during her original deposition.

Hello Beavis, the defense already had it's chance to cross examine the witness. That ship has sailed my brother. If the defense had impeaching evidence, they would have brought it up in cross. So the jury KNOWS he was drunk.

http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/...nishes-emotional-testimony-about-jordan-davis

 

[Geosurface]

Dunn got out of the car.

...

Dunn now exits his vehicle

I was replying to someone who was under the impression that Dunn had been out of the car prior to the gunfire, and that the argument with Davis had started at that time, and that he then returned to his car specifically to retrieve his firearm, etc etc... I was just disabusing him of that impression. And in doing so, I did in fact mention that Dunn seems to have exited his vehicle while firing the weapon. However, it seems that it is in dispute whether he got completely out of it, or just opened his door and swung his legs out.

Let's get this all straight. Dunn was drunk.

Not according to the same people you are using as your source of information that he'd been drinking. Those at the wedding who I've seen say anything on the matter say he was not drinking very much at all there. His fiancee says he may have had 3 or 4 rum & cokes at the wedding, but that they were in very small cups (smaller than a solo cup) and that they were much weaker than what they make for themselves.

She was adamant that he was not impaired in any way when they left. Given that he is a very large man and apparently a regular drinker who probably has a good tolerance built up, I find this believable. However, I am not a drinker and I don't know how powerful 3 or 4 small, watered down rum & cokes could be in someone of that size's system. I would welcome any enlightenment on this matter.

Then the "thugs" pulled up blaring their music.

Incorrect. They were parked there before Dunn arrived. Apparently, they were not yet playing music when he pulled up (which, if true sort of torpedoes the popular narrative that he shouldn't have pulled up next to them if he didn't like that music) - and they started it right after he parked.

Dunn asked for them to turn it down, and they complied, but not without a lot of foul language.

Yes, he asked them if they would turn it down and Tevin Thompson in the front passenger seat did turn it down (Dunn claims he turned it all the way off, this isn't particularly important) - it's a bit unclear whether Thompson turned it down/off in order to be nice and comply with Dunn's wishes, or if he did it merely so they could figure out what the white guy was saying. Apparently they could only see him mouthing something, so loud was the music. Regardless, the boys and the prosecutor conceded the request was made politely.

Dunn is then overheard by a witness issuing a threat, "You're not going to talk to me like that, " and then opened fire.

Dunn then heard Jordan Davis say "fuck that n----r, turn it back up!" which the surviving boys admit he said. The music then went back up, and apparently Davis continued to become more and more agitated and continued dropping F bombs and yelling about the request. This is admitted by his best friend who sat next to him. Dunn says it took him a bit to realize they weren't just singing along with the music, and that they might be talking/referring to him. He says he rolled his window down to verify this by asking "Wait are you talking about me?"

I consider it a fairly reasonable possibility that the third party witness who says he heard "you're not gonna talk to me like that" MAY have misheard Dunn asking them IF they were talking to him. Keep in mind how unreliable witness testimony is and the fact that seeing this person then proceed to shoot up a car and drive off would almost certainly color his impression of that person and the event.

I will say, however, that IF Dunn did actually say "you're not going to talk to me like that!" right before opening fire, that is exceptionally damning and would convince me basically single-handedly of his absolute guilt.

What do you mean "may have tried to exit vehicle" If they were witnesses that would have been easy to discern.

Keep in mind that Jordan Davis' best friend who was sitting next to him in the back seat admits Jordan was operating his door handle during the confrontation, and that Davis absolutely flipped out over the request to turn the music down. When those facts are taken in conjunction with Dunn's claim that Jordan began opening the door while threatening him, I think that claim gains some credibility.

As for those who were around the area being likely to notice a door opening (and mind you, it may have been only slightly ajar) - consider that nobody really had a great reason to be focused on those two cars until the gunshots started. It seems unlikely to me that anyone would really be hawkeyeing those two vehicles prior that. The argument itself was not even fully audible to the other kids in the truck, and probably only Davis and Dunn were really hearing one another with anything approaching clarity. Someone at a distance would likely not have had their attention drawn by the argument.

 

[Pens1566]

Do the courts and the juries normally consider the testimony of a convicted felon who was violating probation at the time of the threat to Mr. Dunn's life was issued?

Evidence of probation violation?

 

[Daverino]

I drink 4 rum cokes in a few hours and I'm fine. 1 doesn't buzz me at all. I also drink the 90% proof parot bay stuff. I actually have a device that measures my BAC and it takes quite a bit for me to blow over the legal limit. Also, when the drink(s) were consumed makes a difference. It also matters on how those drinks were prepared. If they are mostly coke with a splash of rum, you might not get a full "serving" of alcohol in even 4 drinks. I know several bars that pull that crap.

And bshole, why the anger and aggression at me thus far? I've done nothing but present the evidence known and how it is applied to the law as I know it. I could care less if Dunn goes to jail or not. He will if the prosecution has the evidence. He won't if they don't. Simple as that.

I suppose you shoot straighter than this after your four rum and cokes?

Dunn managed to hit the Durango from right under the side-view mirror to the back taillight. Three shots in the front passenger door. Four shots in the rear passenger door. One in the rear compartment window. One in the rear taillight. The tenth missed completely. If he was perfectly sober it seems obvious he was shooting all the passengers in the car, not just the victim. If he was drunk, he just sprayed down the whole car. Which is better?

If he was calm, sober and collected and simply defending himself against Jordan, then there is no reason he would have shot at the other passengers in the Durango, correct?

 

[spidey07]

Hello Beavis, the defense already had it's chance to cross examine the witness. That ship has sailed my brother. If the defense had impeaching evidence, they would have brought it up in cross. So the jury KNOWS he was drunk.

Doesn't matter. You can be high as a kite and still shoot in self defense provided there is a credible, capable and imminent threat to your life.

So far the prosecution hasn't provided anything that disproves the self defense claim of verbal threats against Mr. Dunn's life that any reasonable person would believe to be credible, capable and imminent (Davis attempting to exit the vehicle after loudly and angrily threatening Mr. Dunn's life multiple times) and eye witness testimony is backing up Mr. Dunn's account of events.

 

[spidey07]

Evidence of probation violation?

Curfew

 

[Daverino]

He is fueled by racial hate. He doesn't care about the facts, the legal system, or anything other than the skin colors of those involved.

He is the "jking" of this situation.

Bwahaha.

Mr. 'I get time-outs in the Anandtech Forums for racism' is in no standing to call out anyone for being racist. Go be hateful somewhere else please.

 

[Pens1566]

Curfew

Evidence of probation violation?

 

[spidey07]

I suppose you shoot straighter than this after your four rum and cokes?

Dunn managed to hit the Durango from right under the side-view mirror to the back taillight. Three shots in the front passenger door. Four shots in the rear passenger door. One in the rear compartment window. One in the rear taillight. The tenth missed completely. If he was perfectly sober it seems obvious he was shooting all the passengers in the car, not just the victim. If he was drunk, he just sprayed down the whole car. Which is better?

If he was calm, sober and collected and simply defending himself against Jordan, then there is no reason he would have shot at the other passengers in the Durango, correct?

The grouping and accuracy are actually very good under stress/duress.

 

[Daverino]

The grouping and accuracy are actually very good under stress/duress.

Who was he shooting at? The front side passenger or the rear passenger? If only one person, Jordan, threatened him, why would he shoot at both passengers?

 

[spidey07]

Who was he shooting at? The front side passenger or the rear passenger? If only one person, Jordan, threatened him, why would he shoot at both passengers?

If a gang of 4 people, one of them issues a verbal threat then the entire group is considered the threat. This is where disparity of force comes into play.

 

[Vic]

Doesn't matter. You can be high as a kite and still shoot in self defense provided there is a credible, capable and imminent threat to your life.

So far the prosecution hasn't provided anything that disproves the self defense claim of verbal threats against Mr. Dunn's life that any reasonable person would believe to be credible, capable and imminent (Davis attempting to exit the vehicle after loudly and angrily threatening Mr. Dunn's life multiple times) and eye witness testimony is backing up Mr. Dunn's account of events.

Except that a "credible, capable and imminent threat" to Dunn's life has still not been established yet.

You realize that your bizarre version of what constitutes self-defense would practically empty all the prisons of murderers, right? A proper law abiding gun owner does not just get drunk, have a little shoot em up where someone gets killed, flee the scene, not turn themselves in, and wait for the cops to catch them before claiming they felt threatened.

Seriously, spidey, you make the rest of us gun owners look bad. Most of my family and friends are gun owners and 2nd amendment supporters and not one them support Dunn. Many of them are active military. The concensus is that, even if he did feel threatened, he failed in his duties as a responsible citizen.

 

[bshole]

Doesn't matter. You can be high as a kite and still shoot in self defense provided there is a credible, capable and imminent threat to your life.

Actually it matters a VERY great deal. It can be used to impeach Mr Dunn should he testify. The police can now show that Mr Dunn lied to them in his interrogation (unless you believe his girlfriend is lying to fuck him over). That will shatter his credibility should he decide to testify.

It goes to state of mind. Are drunk people ANGRY or AFRAID? I remember all the fights and rages I went on when drunk.... I never remember being even a little bit afraid. This is going to resonate with jurors.... especially drinking ones. Alcohol makes everybody Rambo.

Dunn shot out of alcohol fueled rage. He is guilty of manslaughter in my book. This one is an absolute no-brainer.

 

[Geosurface]

Evidence of probation violation?

Evidence of curfew violation?

Admitted to by prosecution in opening statements.

If he was calm, sober and collected and simply defending himself against Jordan, then there is no reason he would have shot at the other passengers in the Durango, correct?

Keep in mind that it's not as though he heard the other 3 in the car trying to tell Jordan to calm down or something. To Dunn or anyone else in his situation, the four people in the Durango would have seemed to be a unified front, all on the same page, all potentially armed and meaning to do him harm. Darkest tinted windows allowable under the law, music so loud as to make even Davis hard to hear, and the natural inference that if one of them is saying he'll kill you, the other 3 are probably of a similar mindset.

Dunn said he was basically doing suppressing fire so they would keep driving away, and not start shooting back.

The fucker was trashed.

Keep in mind that the source of information you're using (the fiancee) to determine he was "trashed" was also adamant that he was not impaired in any way. There's also the possibility she is misremembering how many drinks he had. She most certainly said that the rum & cokes at the wedding were weak compared to what they make for themselves at home.

Then you've saved yourself for another round. That's the dilemma you'll face when the other people who are supporting you in the thread genuinely believe your suggestion is a good one. I will give you the benefit of the doubt

I appreciate your fair-mindedness but we may as well cut to the chase. It is the consensus around here that I am racist and frankly I'm not even sure that's an unfair characterization. I'm still new to some of the views I have now, having been an Obama-voting liberal only a couple of years ago. I personally consider the word to be fairly useless, and not much more informative than when people used to scream "heretic!" or "witch!" once upon a time. I think all people have prejudices and behave in racist ways, even if it's just in where they choose to live, or what parts of town they choose to avoid driving through, etc. If you feel the need to call me that, go for it. Again, I appreciate your restraint and fair-mindedness.

 

[Vic]

The grouping and accuracy are actually very good under stress/duress.

Spray and pray. He was less than 3 feet away.

 

[spidey07]

Except that a "credible, capable and imminent threat" to Dunn's life has still not been established yet.

You realize that your bizarre version of what constitutes self-defense would practically empty all the prisons of murderers, right? A proper law abiding gun owner does not just get drunk, have a little shoot em up where someone gets killed, flee the scene, not turn themselves in, and wait for the cops to catch them before claiming they felt threatened.

Seriously, spidey, you make the rest of us gun owners look bad. Most of my family and friends are gun owners and 2nd amendment supporters and not one them support Dunn. Many of them are active military. The concensus is that, even if he did feel threatened, he failed in his duties as a responsible citizen.

I am focusing on what matters - Was Mr. Dunn's shooting lawful and therefor justified? All the other stuff is irrelevant to that.

If there were threats against his life then the shooting was lawfully justified. If not, then it's murder. The prosecution will have to prove beyond reasonable doubt there were no threats against his life. So far they have been unable to do that.

Sure Mr. Dunn went about things completely wrong afterwards, but that doesn't change whether the shooting was justified or not and has nothing to do with it at all.

Don't want to get shot? Don't angrily verbally threaten another's life. You might get shot if you do.

 

[bshole]

I am focusing on what matters - Was Mr. Dunn's shooting lawful and therefor justified? All the other stuff is irrelevant to that.

If there were threats against his life then the shooting was lawfully justified. .

Well not a single word of evidence introduced in trial thus far shows that there was a threat to Mr Dunn's life. We will see if the defense can provide some. I don't think they will. I can't see them letting Dunn testify given the taint that is now on him due to his PROVEN lies to the cops.

I'm changing my prediction, even with a white jury, 40% hung jury, 60% conviction.


The overall culprits are pro gun legislators, gun manufacturers, and the NRA who have brain washed and duped citizens to live in fear in order to fulfill their hidden agenda.

 

[Vic]

I am focusing on what matters - Was Mr. Dunn's shooting lawful and therefor justified? All the other stuff is irrelevant to that.

If there were threats against his life then the shooting was lawfully justified. If not, then it's murder. The prosecution will have to prove beyond reasonable doubt there were no threats against his life. So far they have been unable to do that.

Sure Mr. Dunn went about things completely wrong afterwards, but that doesn't change whether the shooting was justified or not and has nothing to do with it at all.

Don't want to get shot? Don't angrily verbally threaten another's life. You might get shot if you do.

It's weird. You know the facts, but refuse to accept them because they conflict with your established paradigm. You realize that your opinion will have no effect on the verdict, right?

Once again, there is no credible evidence of any threats against Dunn's life, thus the prosecution has met their burden so far. At least this time you remembered that the alleged threat had to be deadly.

 

[bshole]

It's weird. You know the facts, but refuse to accept them because they conflict with your established paradigm. You realize that your opinion will have no effect on the verdict, right?

Once again, there is no credible evidence of any threats against Dunn's life, thus the prosecution has met their burden so far. At least this time you remembered that the alleged threat had to be deadly.

Vic,

You only need one white bigot to get a hung jury.....

 

[Geosurface]

Well not a single world of evidence introduced in trial thus far shows that there was a threat to Mr Dunn's life. We will see if the defense can provide some. I don't think they will. I can't see them letting Dunn testify given the taint that is now on him due to his PROVEN lies to the cops.

Remind me what those proven lies to the cops were?

I don't know what evidence of the threats could ever really be produced beyond these considerations:

1.) Dunn asserting it happened.

2.) Consideration of the fact that Davis' friends admit they could not hear everything Davis said to Dunn due to the noise.

3.) The fact that they also admit Davis was flipping out.

4.) The fact that Dunn ended up shooting Davis dead, which in and of itself is pretty good evidence Dunn perceived Davis to be a threat for some reason. Dunn's actions of firing ten times and continuing to fire even as the vehicle was driving away does not fit very well with simply being upset that he was cursed at. It does, however, fit very well with believing they posed a serious and deadly threat which necessitated such action in order to prevent return fire.

5.) The fact that Davis' best friend, seated to his left admits Davis was operating the door handle at some point during the confrontation. Which fits nicely with Dunn's claim that Davis was coming out of the truck at the time he grabbed his firearm. It's hard to believe that's a coincidence and it's also hard to imagine a reason for Davis to be opening that door OTHER THAN to escalate the confrontation in some way, and gain greater access to Dunn.

I believe Dunn will take the stand.

 

[blankslate]

EDIT searched, yep looked like the GF said Dunn had 3 or 4 "cocktails" at the wedding reception on the stand. Which is strange as it is different than her original testimony to the cops when they interviewed her.

Could be that she felt that committing perjury in a Court of Law under oath was more serious than "fibbing to the police."

If Mr. Dunn was slightly buzzed, which is admittedly questionable since we don't know how strong the drinks were or what his general tolerance is (or if she lied in court and was truthful in initial questioning), it could explain why he didn't report the shooting but waiting more hours before going to his neighbor police officer to report it.

We also don't know if he was one to become more aggressive if buzzed or not as well, while still being able to hit the broad side of an SUV.

the above is of course speculation like quite a lot of posts in this thread.

However, imo, if he was completely sober and called 9/11 within minutes after the shooting I doubt there would be as much doubt regarding his side of the story as there is now.

Anyone know offhand the prosecutors reasoning for going for murder one instead of a lesser charge?




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