Teenager shot dead after playing loud music

[Newell Steamer]

But let's say,..

Yeah, so,.. just as you stopped reading what I posted;

No need to get ahead of yourself and assume anything further either.

,.. I will stop reading what you posted too.

There is no "But let's say" - because nothing of the sort of whatever you posted happened.

Everything else, including the shooter and your what ifs, is just fear.

You want to live life and take lives based on your fear, well, you will have to deal with the law - period.

 

[Genx87]

If he shot out of anger rather than fear, if his life wasn't threatened, then sure he could be called a thug.

Though to me I prefer to attach the name to those who perpetually try to intimidate the whole society around them and cultivate their entire persona for that purpose.

But using a singular, thuggish event to justify calling someone a thug is fine by me if you want to. I'd probably call Dunn a psycho if I thought he had shot up a car full of teens simply out of anger.

I bet ole Dunn has acted in thuggish ways before this incident.

 

[Geosurface]

Everything else, including the shooter and your what ifs, is just fear.

Wow you are really a mental midget.

"I refuse to entertain hypotheticals because they would clearly point out the flaws in what I'm saying!!!"

I bet ole Dunn has acted in thuggish ways before this incident.

Very possible. But if you watch his interview with cops you'll see a nerdy, straight laced guy. Not my image of a thug but if you want to call him one go ahead.

 

[Newell Steamer]

Wow you are really a mental midget.

"I refuse to entertain hypotheticals because they would clearly point out the flaws in what I'm saying!!!"

I'd rather be a mental midget, instead of a blood thirsty racist looking to gun down a bunch of teenagers.

Also, your hpotheticals prove you live in constant fear. Enjoy it, you and your ilk deserve it.

 

[Geosurface]

blood thirsty racist looking to gun down a bunch of teenagers.

There there, it will be alright. I'll make the bad men who have different opinions than you go away. Don't worry your little head about it. Pay them no mind, they are just racist meanies.

 

[Newell Steamer]

There there, it will be alright. I'll make the bad men who have different opinions than you go away. Don't worry your little head about it. Pay them no mind, they are just racist meanies.

I am the delusional one,.. yet, you are the one cooking up all sorts of stories and what ifs, for things that don't exist.

Hey, grab yourself a few slices of pizza, you deserve it for being such a concerned vigilante.

 

[bshole]

Well this is interesting, the jury is nearly all-white.

This case seems EXTREMELY clear cut but it all it takes is one white supremacist bigot on the jury to botch it. I predict a hung jury (60% confidence) or guilty (40% confidence). Additionally, this has been overcharged, it should be manslaughter charge not 1st degree murder.

The jury appears to be made up of five white males, five white females, three black women, two Asian women and one Hispanic male. It is not clear who is on the jury, and who are the alternates.

 

[Geosurface]

Well this is interesting, the jury is nearly all-white.

This case seems EXTREMELY clear cut but it all it takes is one white supremacist bigot on the jury to botch it. I predict a hung jury (60% confidence) or guilty (40% confidence). Additionally, this has been overcharged, it should be manslaughter charge not 1st degree murder.

The fact that justice comes down to the racial breakdown of our juries is a ringing endorsement of operating a diverse society.

 

[Capt Caveman]

You wouldn't be afraid if someone in a fully occupied truck with tinted windows, blasting rap music, started yelling "fuck that n----r! we should kill this motherfucker!" then proceeded to lift up something from the floor of the truck and said to you, as they started to open the door, "you're gonna die bitch, this is happening now!" ???

Congrats on the nerves of steel, but forgive me if I'm skeptical.

And you have any proof of this? No.

Of course, Dunn could have just ignored it all but he hates thug music and had to say something.

 

[TerryMathews]

Well this is interesting, the jury is nearly all-white.

This case seems EXTREMELY clear cut but it all it takes is one white supremacist bigot on the jury to botch it. I predict a hung jury (60% confidence) or guilty (40% confidence). Additionally, this has been overcharged, it should be manslaughter charge not 1st degree murder.

1- since when is 66% "nearly all"?

2- why does it have to be a white bigot? Asians dislike blacks more than they do whites.

Your rant isnt very well thought out.

 

[bshole]

The fact that justice comes down to the racial breakdown of our juries is a ringing endorsement of operating a diverse society.

I agree, so when can we start kicking white people out of America? America was brown long before whites got here and it should be brown again.

 

[Geosurface]

I agree, so when can we start kicking white people out of America? America was brown long before whites got here and it should be brown again.

Or I guess we could just put a new law on the books which says you are entitled to a jury of your racial peers.

 

[brandonb]

I agree, so when can we start kicking white people out of America? America was brown long before whites got here and it should be brown again.

If your white guilt is that strong, you should just kill yourself.

 

[Pens1566]

That was a play on trayvon's own words about making certain people bleed. However, you and the rest of your crew mass-reported the post and got what you wanted... Another public lynching.

Sure it was. And again, spouting bullshit that you have no proof of. News flash genius, no one has to report you for a mod to see a post and infract it himself. Even if someone did report you, I love how it's their fault you got banned and not you yourself for posting your racist comment.

 

[Sulaco]

I agree, so when can we start kicking white people out of America? America was brown long before whites got here and it should be brown again.

The fact that you lump "brown" people together, despite the gulf of differences of culture and experiences is a shining example of ignorance and racism in its basest of forms.

You sir, should be ashamed of yourself.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Or I guess we could just put a new law on the books which says you are entitled to a jury of your racial peers.

I am honestly surprised that this hasn't happened yet.


The most interesting aspect of US race relations, to me, is that (some) black americans seem to want nothing more than divisiveness in the name of equality. JKing, bshole, pens, classy.. All are square in this camp of wanting special treatment.

 

[Pens1566]

If that happens it's not good news for spidey. He says he understands the self defense laws in his state very well and that Florida's are very similar - and he's very confident that Dunn did nothing illegal. Well I suppose he could argue that would be an incorrect verdict on the part of the jury, but that's not really going to make a difference to Dunn. And it wouldn't make a difference to him if he applied his understanding of the law to his own situations and ended up tried the same way.

To me the big takehome is this - if you think a group of people sounds like a bunch of thugs listening to thug music don't engage them. Either your intuition is right and they are dangerous or your intuition is wrong but your prejudice could still end up causing you to shoot them because you misinterpreted an action as a threat on your life.

If you do engage them and they get angry deescalate. Apologize and leave. It doesn't matter if you're the reasonable one or you're the right one. I have zero doubt that if either one of the two parties did this things would have ended there. I also think that if you have a weapon and there's any chance you'll use it you have the greater responsibility to deescalate and disengage with strangers at all costs. Do they teach this at CCW training? If not they should.

I'm just dreading the day when stand your ground is invoked to say you have no duty to back down from an argument or return anger because another person initiated it.

Let's be honest for a minute. If spidey's understanding were in fact true, anyone posting here that has read his insane nonsense and ran into him in real life (with proof that is the person posting here) could shoot him on sight as he's clearly a threat to any reasonable person. No jury would convict that person once the AT P&N postings (not to mention stormfront) made it into evidence.

 

[thraashman]

Well this is interesting, the jury is nearly all-white.

This case seems EXTREMELY clear cut but it all it takes is one white supremacist bigot on the jury to botch it. I predict a hung jury (60% confidence) or guilty (40% confidence). Additionally, this has been overcharged, it should be manslaughter charge not 1st degree murder.

From what I understand it meets the requirements of first degree because Dunn had to walk back to his car, retrieve his gun from the glove box, load it, and then start firing. This indicates several moments worth of premeditation, which would indicate 1st Degree murder.

 

[Geosurface]

Dunn had to walk back to his car

False, he was in his car already.

retrieve his gun from the glove box

Yes he did keep his gun in his glove box and got it from there.

load it

Was loaded, he just had to chamber a round.

 

[Exophase]

Keep in mind that if he legitimately believed Jordan Davis had a gun and every intent to kill him with it, putting the car in reverse (and possibly having to start it if he'd turned it off), then backing up and driving off (and thus leaving his fiancee behind) would have left Davis ample opportunity to shoot him as he did so.

If he TRULY believed Davis was moments from shooting him, the only way to neutralize that possibility was to kill Davis first or create a situation where he would have no ability or desire to try using his firearm. Laying down suppressing fire until the truck was sufficiently distant from him may have seemed to him to be the only way to ensure that nobody in the truck would take a shot at him as they drove off.

If he truly believed Davis was pointing a gun at him with intent to shoot then reaching over to his glove compartment to get his own gun is riskier than driving away. I'm assuming his glove compartment wasn't already open. Davis would have had ample opportunity to shoot him while he did this and more motivation to do so. He'd have had much less motivation to shoot him while he's leaving.

I just don't see how one could think otherwise. And if he already had the gun because he already felt an elevated level of threat he should have already disengaged.

Incidentally, had Davis been armed and actually shot him while he went to get his gun I wonder what people would be arguing now.

For all he knows, all four of them have a rap sheet as long as his arm filled with violent crimes. He doesn't know that there is seemingly no weapon in the truck other than the small knife in Jordan Davis' pocket. For all he knows, every single one of them is packing.

Putting aside the rationality of this prejudice, why would he have only formed this opinion after he engaged them? If he thought they were dangerous because they were playing loud rap music he shouldn't have approached them.

But I'm really not sympathetic to whatever this man's prejudices may have been, nor do I think the court should be. I'm not doubting that there was an atmosphere of credible threat in Dunn's mind either, I do think he acted out of fear, but that alone isn't enough to justify what he did. Just imagine the kinds of paranoia some people have, and what happens if you give them license to act on it.

BTW, I don't buy this tripod theory. He'd have had to grab the tripod and unfold it (no way was it sitting unfolded in the car) and even after doing that I doubt he could very convincingly stretch one leg in isolation out of the car to look like a firearm. If you have a tripod I recommend trying this and getting back to us

 

[Geosurface]

If he truly believed Davis was pointing a gun at him with intent to shoot then reaching over to his glove compartment to get his own gun is riskier than driving away. I'm assuming his glove compartment wasn't already open. Davis would have had ample opportunity to shoot him while he did this and more motivation to do so. He'd have had much less motivation to shoot him while he's leaving.

You're over-thinking it and expecting too high a level of calm rationality during a situation where someone was terrified, and I think you're also underestimating how quickly this all happened. If Dunn felt he was about to be killed, he isn't going to be pausing and weighing the options. His instinct would be to go for that gun and defend himself.

Putting aside the rationality of this prejudice, why would he have only formed this opinion after he engaged them? If he thought they were dangerous because they were playing loud rap music he shouldn't have approached them.

Unless y'know, listening to loud rap music wasn't enough for him to think they were all potential armed criminals, but one of them threatening to kill him was.

BTW, I don't buy this tripod theory. He'd have had to grab the tripod and unfold it (no way was it sitting unfolded in the car) and even after doing that I doubt he could very convincingly stretch one leg in isolation out of the car to look like a firearm. If you have a tripod I recommend trying this and getting back to us

I have multiple tripods and I was referring to him picking it up in its folded position. I realize that it has multiple prongs in that position (though some sort of merge together more than others, couldn't find a picture of the one in the Durango) - but even if it was the least gun-looking tripod ever, in its folded position, when coupled with a tinted window, night time, high adrenaline, and repeated death threats, I think it could be convincing enough.

 

[thraashman]

False, he was in his car already.



Yes he did keep his gun in his glove box and got it from there.



Was loaded, he just had to chamber a round.

I've heard many versions, unsure which is exactly the correct one. But it was my understanding that he exited his car initially to confront the young men about their music volume initially and then returned to his car. If that did not occur, requiring him to return to get his gun, then 1st degree would be less likely of an appropriate charge.

 

[Geosurface]

I've heard many versions, unsure which is exactly the correct one. But it was my understanding that he exited his car initially to confront the young men about their music volume initially and then returned to his car. If that did not occur, requiring him to return to get his gun, then 1st degree would be less likely of an appropriate charge.

I've been watching the whole trial, it's not in dispute that Dunn was in his vehicle and communicating with them through his car window. They were in their truck and Davis' window was halfway down. Dunn never got out of his car through the entire thing other than possibly while shooting.

Not trying to sound douchey btw, just trying to help clarify.

 

[thraashman]

I've been watching the whole trial, it's not in dispute that Dunn was in his vehicle and communicating with them through his car window. They were in their truck and Davis' window was halfway down. Dunn never got out of his car through the entire thing other than possibly while shooting.

Not trying to sound douchey btw, just trying to help clarify.

No, you don't sound douchey, I just misunderstood somewhere. I've read so much of this thread I can't remember which things come from actual news sources and which from posters making claims. Somewhere I got turned around. I appreciate the clarification.

 

[HomerJS]

And you have any proof of this? No.

Of course, Dunn could have just ignored it all but he hates thug music and had to say something.

Would have been the reaction of normal people. I'm also sure Dunn would have done the same unarmed. Another brainless coward who took it upon himself, "I'm going to stop that loud negro music"