RadiclDreamer
Diamond Member
Just you
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Teen Charged After Attack Caught On Tape
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Just you
Arkaign
Lifer
He probably couldn't tell, because he's a lot more intelligent than you are.
The thread regarding the use of the 50 was a purely hypothetical in the case of rather severe and outlandishly unlikely circumstances. I still maintain that if anyone is delaying getting a critically ill loved one to a hospital (which is clearly different than the situation in the thread you mention), that almost anyone with a heart and a brain would do anything they could to fix that situation ASAP.
Conflating that with this is asinine to the Nth degree. You can take your 'pussification' of America line and shove it up your ass. We have laws for reasons, particularly laws against aggravated assault and other violent crimes. Standing up for these laws does NOT make one a pussy.
Hell, I even support the old-school style of having a damned fistfight if people want to so badly, so long as they're not packing weapons, they don't gang up on each other, and they fucking don't brutalize someone on the ground. I already gave links, and there are countless other cases, where a continued brutal attack left the victims either severely injured, paralyzed, or DEAD.
Saying this was okay because there were no 'permanent' injuries is like letting off a drunk driver that plowed into a family of 5, but because he didn't permanently injure anyone in that instance, give him a slap on the wrist and let him and others believe that behavior is acceptable. It's NOT acceptable, unless you believe in living under a thug mentality is a good thing.
FelixDeCat
Lifer
I would like volunteers to sign up to have their heads stomped on for testing purposes. This will include two footed stomps that begin at the highest level the stomper can acheive. A total of three to four stomps will be delivered. We will not be held responsible for injury which might include skull fractures, coma, brain swelling and possibly death. You will not be compensated for your pain, suffering or time and you will be compelled to keep this test a secret for fear of retaliation.
Nobody said this that what the kid did was okay. Nobody said the kid shouldn't be punished. Stop taking the easy way out and twisting our argument. The kid should be punished to the fullest extent of the law, but in no way was that attempted murder. That's the main point that Iceberg, Que and myself are trying to make.
In order for there to be a murder, there has to be intent to kill. Any defense attorney worth his weight in salt would be able to beat an attempted murder charge in this case. If you were the DA and you had only one shot to put this kid behind bars, are you telling me you would risk it all on some trumped up murder charge? Gimme a break. Go read the statute on murder and get back to me when you're ready to admit you're wrong.
zerocool84
Lifer
I said aggravated assault 🙂
Arkaign
Lifer
So did I, incidentally.
Prosecutors frequently open with higher-level charges, gives wiggle room for negotiating down.
Plenty of severe beatings have been tried as attempted murder, and negotiated down. A famous example : http://www.washingtonpost.com/...8/AR2007062801653.html
The big key here, is that if the victim in this case had been a little unluckier (which could have easily happened) and had died, this case would be 3rd Degree Murder as easy as pie.
Prosecutors frequently open with higher-level charges, gives wiggle room for negotiating down.
Plenty of severe beatings have been tried as attempted murder, and negotiated down. A famous example : http://www.washingtonpost.com/...8/AR2007062801653.html
The big key here, is that if the victim in this case had been a little unluckier (which could have easily happened) and had died, this case would be 3rd Degree Murder as easy as pie.
Negotiate down? Are you serious? Why would the defense attorney want to negotiate down? The aggravated assault charge would be much tougher to defend against than attempted murder.
Did the kid really attempt to murder his victim? Let's recap the fight.
Defendant storms in with a cheap shot that knocks the victim to the ground (first blood!). He then proceeds to wallop him some, perform some soccer kicks to the head then did his ultra combo finisher: the M. Bison stomp (PERFECT VICTORY).
Now at this point, the other kid doesn't even know what hit him. He was laying on the ground, defenseless. What happened next? The attacker walked away. He let the victim live. Did anyone have to pull him off of the victim? No. He runs off on his own accord after the finisher. In order for you to prove he did indeed attempt to murder the victim, you would have to prove to a jury that the defendant believed that the victim was dead when he stopped attacking. Otherwise, it's clear as day that he let the dude live.
Now aggravated assault is a slam dunk for the prosecution. This isn't some Law & Order episode with high drama negotiations. Aggravated assault is a serious enough charge on it's own. There's no need to trump it up.
Let's not forget the kids involved in this video are only 15. We don't need to be locking anyone up for 25 years over this video. Especially not without knowing all the facts. Everyone who witnessed it didn't think it was such a big deal and they had the best view.
Arkaign
Lifer
^^ I will just let your comments show everyone that you have absolutely no idea what goes on in the Criminal Justice system, as your analysis of the factors is wildly off base with reality. The attacker leaving the scene proves nothing, as perhaps he was called off by a buddy, heard someone coming, who knows. With your warped definition, someone that fires 6 shots from a revolver at a person, intending to kill them, but misses 6 times, and then decides to leave the scene, is NOT guilty of attempted murder. He walked away, let the victim live, right? Or another example, the guy fires one shot, misses, but sees a police officer approaching, so he turns, and lets the victim live. Is he also innocent of attempted murder? Of course not.
Negotiations aren't 'high drama law and order' stuff, they're day-in and day-out. The DA, the prosecutor, the judge, the defense attorneys, and a variety of other players CONSTANTLY make deals. By opening with a higher-level charge, the prosecution can wiggle down to what is still a decent charge if they have to, which is better than starting at a mid-level charge and getting it knocked down to a misdemeanor or other lesser offense (if the defense has something interesting to mitigate the circumstances, etc). If you looked at felony law, you'd probably be shocked at how often cases are dealt down (and in some cases, they get bumped UP with things like 'enhancements' based upon priors or other relevant factors). Most defense attorneys once worked for a DA's office or two, and many DAs have previously practiced defense law. Judges are all over the place in terms of who they've worked with and connected to.
I agree 25 years would be a shade too high. This kid should probably do some time though, but be given a chance to get his conviction deferred if he straightens his shit out (complete his sentence, then complete 5-6 years of parole/probation without fucking up.)
Negotiations aren't 'high drama law and order' stuff, they're day-in and day-out. The DA, the prosecutor, the judge, the defense attorneys, and a variety of other players CONSTANTLY make deals. By opening with a higher-level charge, the prosecution can wiggle down to what is still a decent charge if they have to, which is better than starting at a mid-level charge and getting it knocked down to a misdemeanor or other lesser offense (if the defense has something interesting to mitigate the circumstances, etc). If you looked at felony law, you'd probably be shocked at how often cases are dealt down (and in some cases, they get bumped UP with things like 'enhancements' based upon priors or other relevant factors). Most defense attorneys once worked for a DA's office or two, and many DAs have previously practiced defense law. Judges are all over the place in terms of who they've worked with and connected to.
I agree 25 years would be a shade too high. This kid should probably do some time though, but be given a chance to get his conviction deferred if he straightens his shit out (complete his sentence, then complete 5-6 years of parole/probation without fucking up.)
Are you trying to compare shooting someone with kicking the shit out of them? When someone shoots a gun, it is there INTENT (there's that tricky word again) to do grave harm to them. That much has been proven though years and years of case law. When you kick the shit out of them, it is, by definition assault.
It takes more imagination to see this as attempted murder than it does to see it for what it is, assault. Sure, the victim may have had his neck snapped. Sure, the victim may have suffered a blood clot. We can play these "what if" games until the cows come home, but the fact remains that he didn't suffer any fatal injuries.
The only reason I can think of that they would even try for murder is in there was such a huge public outcry that the DA felt he had no choice but to throw the book at the defendant. If the DA is using attempted murder as some sort of negotiating ploy, he's playing a dangerous game with a child's future. The defense could very well call his bluff and win their case or lose it and send this kid away for a long, long time.
You say that he deserves to be charged with attempted murder, but then say that 25 years is too high. Mandatory sentencing is mandatory sentencing. You can't just arbitrarily make up a sentence and apply it as you see fit. In most jurisdictions that's 25 years. It may be less in Georgia, but I'm willing to bet it's more than 5-6 years. Long enough to effectively ruin this kid's life, that's for sure.
The kid didn't use a gun, he didn't use a knife, he didn't use any other weapon besides his hands and feet. I'm not condoning his sucker punch and subsequent berserker barrage. Don't think for a second that I am. I already said I feel that it was over the top. I'm just saying you'd have to be a sick fuck to think that what we witnessed in that video deserves destroying a 15 year old kid's life.
It takes more imagination to see this as attempted murder than it does to see it for what it is, assault. Sure, the victim may have had his neck snapped. Sure, the victim may have suffered a blood clot. We can play these "what if" games until the cows come home, but the fact remains that he didn't suffer any fatal injuries.
The only reason I can think of that they would even try for murder is in there was such a huge public outcry that the DA felt he had no choice but to throw the book at the defendant. If the DA is using attempted murder as some sort of negotiating ploy, he's playing a dangerous game with a child's future. The defense could very well call his bluff and win their case or lose it and send this kid away for a long, long time.
You say that he deserves to be charged with attempted murder, but then say that 25 years is too high. Mandatory sentencing is mandatory sentencing. You can't just arbitrarily make up a sentence and apply it as you see fit. In most jurisdictions that's 25 years. It may be less in Georgia, but I'm willing to bet it's more than 5-6 years. Long enough to effectively ruin this kid's life, that's for sure.
The kid didn't use a gun, he didn't use a knife, he didn't use any other weapon besides his hands and feet. I'm not condoning his sucker punch and subsequent berserker barrage. Don't think for a second that I am. I already said I feel that it was over the top. I'm just saying you'd have to be a sick fuck to think that what we witnessed in that video deserves destroying a 15 year old kid's life.
Ok i'm kind of late to the party here, but what is shown in the video has happened to me, me and my bro were walking on the street two (white, btw cause my town is 93% white) ~100lb(I was about same weight/age) guys started fighting me I was mostly 1v2 they somehow knock me down and jumped (probably 3-4) times on my head probably with 2 feet, it did hurt like hell. I don't think I've had long term effects (maybe social anxiety, but that's probably independent from the incident). Good thing those punks weren't heavier, I'm not sure how that would turn out..
alkemyst
No Lifer
The problem here is most have not been on the delivery end of a rear ass beating, and those that have been 'beat up' didn't really get one even if they got a broken bone or concussion.
At 16 years old I was competing in men's martial arts, if I had the opportunity to deliver a kick to the head of a prone opponent or a 'stomp', I'd know I'd be delivering a serious injury. The thing most people see in MMA are delivered by those that know how not to KILL their opponent.
One would need to know more about this kid, however; an assault like that should have his parents paying his way to a private school. This is the only way we will see this type of gang violence eliminated. A 3-10 day suspension doesn't affect the kid. We need to target the parents.
darkswordsman17
Lifer
For once I was actually in agreement with what you were posting earlier, but not this. If you can't see that those two cherrypick their causes as well as blatantly ignore facts while pushing an overtly racially charged angle then you are blind to reality. They will actively insert and incite racial tensions just to get attention.
Did I land in bizarro world? You seem to be posting the opposite of what you normally do.
That's actually a pretty good idea. I would imagine that if the parents of kids doing shit like this or shooting up schools were to be held partially responsible we'd see at least a more active involvement in their kids lives. Might not be much, but sometimes that's enough.
That helps explain a lot.
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so when did they start allowing head stomping in the MMA?...oh wait...that's not REAL fighting...it's more like wraslin'......right?
I can see a good head stomping in someone pulls a gun or knife...then all bets are off...survival of the fittest, but this is not the case.
darkswordsman17
Lifer
I think you're in the wrong thread. Its ok though, I can see why you could get confused.
pcslookout
Lifer
Wouldn't ever say dude but for the most part yes. Either that or just yes. Finally someone with some sense.
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