Teen birth rates highest in most religious states

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
Not really. Liberal policies enacted welfare. Welfare provides a means whereby people can avoid work. The crime rate in that population is higher and therefore liberal policies may cause crime.

All that study did is look at numbers posit a speculation and leave it there for others to swoon over. Did it look at educational or poverty levels? Did it do a comparison at more local levels? Did anyone actually bother to find out if there is a link at all? No, but there is a lot of "religion causes..."

AT is overwhelmingly anti religious. If this were to be applied to a minority the poster would be banned. Since anything anti religion is sanctioned here I tend to poke holes in stupid arguments, and this "study" which merely cites what would normally be considered conjecture at best has no intellectual merit an therefore neither does any declarative statement based on it.

You do realize, that the study doesn't imply cause and effect, rather it simply notes the correlation? Right? So while the study doesn't necessarily prove anything, it simply leaves one wondering as to what the causation might actually be.

However, the results don't say anything about cause and effect, though study researcher Joseph Strayhorn of Drexel University College of Medicine and University of Pittsburgh offers a speculation of the most probable explanation: "We conjecture that religious communities in the U.S. are more successful in discouraging the use of contraception among their teenagers than they are in discouraging sexual intercourse itself."

So that's one theory. You got another/better one?

And by the way, what you term "anti religious" is rather disingenuous, at best. Are we not free to speak as we wish around here, or is religion one of those sacred cows we're not allowed to talk about?

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

The OP is so transparent...obviously doesn't really care about the actual root causes of teen pregnancy...just looking for a way to self justify their religious intolerance. /golfclap

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
Not really. Liberal policies enacted welfare. Welfare provides a means whereby people can avoid work. The crime rate in that population is higher and therefore liberal policies may cause crime.

All that study did is look at numbers posit a speculation and leave it there for others to swoon over. Did it look at educational or poverty levels? Did it do a comparison at more local levels? Did anyone actually bother to find out if there is a link at all? No, but there is a lot of "religion causes..."

AT is overwhelmingly anti religious. If this were to be applied to a minority the poster would be banned. Since anything anti religion is sanctioned here I tend to poke holes in stupid arguments, and this "study" which merely cites what would normally be considered conjecture at best has no intellectual merit an therefore neither does any declarative statement based on it.

You do realize, that the study doesn't imply cause and effect, rather it simply notes the correlation? Right? So while the study doesn't necessarily prove anything, it simply leaves one wondering as to what the causation might actually be.

However, the results don't say anything about cause and effect, though study researcher Joseph Strayhorn of Drexel University College of Medicine and University of Pittsburgh offers a speculation of the most probable explanation: "We conjecture that religious communities in the U.S. are more successful in discouraging the use of contraception among their teenagers than they are in discouraging sexual intercourse itself."

So that's one theory. You got another/better one?

And by the way, what you term "anti religious" is rather disingenuous, at best. Are we not free to speak as we wish around here, or is religion one of those sacred cows we're not allowed to talk about?

"We conjecure"- and that conjecture is something based on no supportive data. How abouit this conjecture? Mississippi is one of the poorest states with the lowest education. The most probable explanation? Poorly educated people are less likely to use contraception not because of religious prohibition, but because they are poorly educated. If anyone cared to look at pregnancy statistics according to socioeconomic status, you would find that there is a higher correlation. More than that, local governments go out of their way to teach sex education to children. Do you have any idea how common it is for a 13 year old to deliver a baby in the inner city and not know she did anything which could cause her to get pregnant? It happens all the time.

Now for religion. Let's discuss race like we "discuss" religion.

Since black teenage mothers and their children have the highest poverty rate (about two-thirds) of any group, and depend the most on state and federal social programs, it is arguable that the blacks among us disproportionately burden society with the negative consequences. But of course, they are just being black.

Here's a good one.

Lot's of dumb, ignorant stuff happens more frequently in the most black states. Honestly, I've stopped keeping track . . .

Now I can go to the thousand or so posts from the "discussion" of religion in the "pain" thread and pull out worse.

Disingenuous my ass. The fact is that some folks around here think of religion like the Klan thinks of blacks.

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan
The OP is so transparent...obviously doesn't really care about the actual root causes of teen pregnancy...just looking for a way to self justify their religious intolerance. /golfclap

Neither do you, since you're just dismissing this as a hit on religion.

What are the root causes of teen pregnancy? Contraception use is down but the instances of premarital teenage sex is probably up or the same as it has been for 20 years.

Why is contraception use down? Lack of education.

Considering the official policy of the last admin was to deny funding for anything other than abstinence only education, this might have an effect.

 

[Jaskalas]

Does this study count adult teens?

Maybe couples in ?religious states? aren?t waiting until they are 40 years old with a career before having children.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
Not really. Liberal policies enacted welfare. Welfare provides a means whereby people can avoid work. The crime rate in that population is higher and therefore liberal policies may cause crime.

All that study did is look at numbers posit a speculation and leave it there for others to swoon over. Did it look at educational or poverty levels? Did it do a comparison at more local levels? Did anyone actually bother to find out if there is a link at all? No, but there is a lot of "religion causes..."

AT is overwhelmingly anti religious. If this were to be applied to a minority the poster would be banned. Since anything anti religion is sanctioned here I tend to poke holes in stupid arguments, and this "study" which merely cites what would normally be considered conjecture at best has no intellectual merit an therefore neither does any declarative statement based on it.

I think my statement had intellectual merit. I think yours here about welfare does too.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan
The OP is so transparent...obviously doesn't really care about the actual root causes of teen pregnancy...just looking for a way to self justify their religious intolerance. /golfclap

Neither do you, since you're just dismissing this as a hit on religion.

What are the root causes of teen pregnancy? Contraception use is down but the instances of premarital teenage sex is probably up or the same as it has been for 20 years.

Why is contraception use down? Lack of education.

Considering the official policy of the last admin was to deny funding for anything other than abstinence only education, this might have an effect.

I've looked at a lot of studies on this subject over the past couple of weeks and pretty much came to the conclusion that you can twist the numbers in a thousand different directions to get them to support one's particular bias...whatever that may be. When one picks only on religion and totally ignores huge correlations based on much more significant predictors...that person has an agenda. The OP clearly has an agenda...a bullshit agenda...and I'm calling him on it.

 

[TruePaige]

Originally posted by: Zstream

Originally posted by: TruePaige

Originally posted by: Strk
As I said in the other thread, birthrate is stupid. You're only counting those who carry to term. Pregnancy rate is much more important.

A quick search found this (it's a PDF)

Why is pregnancy rate more important?

Girls who don't carry to term don't make society pay for their children and overall have a better chance at being a benefit to society.

Because you are trying to mock religion again. You are trying to put up a weak argument together in terms of religion/birth rate.

As stated above, the pregnancy rate matters if you are going to try and even debate. The point of the thread was not to debate, rather to humiliate those who have religious beliefs.

No, the pregnancy rate is unimportant. The birthrate is important.

If others of you want to talk about STD's, then the STD Transmission rate is important.

Pregnancy rate? Not important.

 

[WHAMPOM]

Originally posted by: JD50
I've always wondered how the anti-religious left deals with the fact that their beloved President attended a radical church for 20 years.

Say what you really mean,"attended a BLACK church for 20 years."

 

[WHAMPOM]

Originally posted by: aphex
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32...th-kids_and_parenting/

I see those abstinence programs work great! :roll:

More like an ignorance program, "Mom what's sex?", "A sin that's what it is, now shut up and quit bothering me about it!" "geeze", she thought, "just wanted to know if doing the team for good luck was sex, they said doin'it standing up was safe."

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Interesting this quote too: ...the results showed more abortions among teenagers in the less religious states.

The title of the article and this thread is, "Teen birth rates highest in most religious states." Abortion is one alternative available to a pregnant teenage girl. The statement you quote sounds like at least the start of a triumph of intelligence over fear based religious indoctrination.

 

[piasabird]

So does this mean non religious states just have higher abortion rates or are better at killing their young?

Abortion is the ultimate form of Greed.

Having children is having hope for the future. Has nothing to do with fear.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Interesting this quote too: ...the results showed more abortions among teenagers in the less religious states.

The title of the article and this thread is, "Teen birth rates highest in most religious states." Abortion is one alternative available to a pregnant teenage girl. The statement you quote sounds like at least the start of a triumph of intelligence over fear based religious indoctrination.

Detroit has the highest teen birth rate of any large city. Michigan is in the lower third of "religious" states.

What would be good is intelligence and careful revue of data to determine actual causation overcoming the superiority of one's feeling towards religion, or anything else for that matter.

 

[piasabird]

I think there is a kind of pilosophy going on here. Remember when the president intimated that people should not have to have unwanted children? This is a kind of hatred of children. On the other hand other people believe children are a gift from God and that children are the future of this country. Ask yourself do you dread having children or do you have hope for the future of this country? Is the Democratic Party trying to spread the belief that children are bad and should be avoided? What is the real message about this?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
Not really. Liberal policies enacted welfare. Welfare provides a means whereby people can avoid work. The crime rate in that population is higher and therefore liberal policies may cause crime.

All that study did is look at numbers posit a speculation and leave it there for others to swoon over. Did it look at educational or poverty levels? Did it do a comparison at more local levels? Did anyone actually bother to find out if there is a link at all? No, but there is a lot of "religion causes..."

AT is overwhelmingly anti religious. If this were to be applied to a minority the poster would be banned. Since anything anti religion is sanctioned here I tend to poke holes in stupid arguments, and this "study" which merely cites what would normally be considered conjecture at best has no intellectual merit an therefore neither does any declarative statement based on it.

I think my statement had intellectual merit. I think yours here about welfare does too.

I agree that both points ought to be considered. Our problem as humans is we pick a "demon" and stick with it. It might be blacks, it might be gays, it might be people of faith. Doesn't matter. A human tendency is to filter out that which we do not like and base our "reality" on that, rather than trying to overcome our personal biases and see things more clearly. Obviously that's not entirely possible, but if one values truth the attempt is not an option.

One of the most profound lines I've ever heard was by Gregory Peck in Moby Dick.

Speak not to me of blasphemy, man; I'd strike the sun if it insulted me. Look ye, Starbuck, all visible objects are but as pasteboard masks. Some inscrutable yet reasoning thing puts forth the molding of their features. The white whale tasks me; he heaps me. Yet he is but a mask. 'Tis the thing behind the mask I chiefly hate; the malignant thing that has plagued mankind since time began; the thing that maws and mutilates our race, not killing us outright but letting us live on, with half a heart and half a lung.

Aye, I am Ahab in some ways. That's why I choose these threads here, and respond to others in different forums. When I see groupthink about religion or how we needed to invade Iraq or most things, I ask myself if what is referenced fits. Is there another explanation? Perhaps not, but automatic acceptance is the antithesis of rational skepticism. But the "Religion is..." threads, the "Liberals support terrorist" threads are pasteboard masks. What is behind them are the things which maws and mutilates mankind.

So I play the gadfly, and I always will.

 

[TheSlamma]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Traditional religion controls people via self hate. We are sold on the notion that we are worthless sinners and part of that deal is that sexual pleasure is bad.

Thus so much of religion leads to sexual repression and it is the sexually repressed who give us our deviates, those for whom sex becomes an addiction and sick pleasure rather than a joy. All the guild and conflict create irresponsibility.

That's for damn sure.

 

[surfsatwerk]

Originally posted by: piasabird
I think there is a kind of pilosophy going on here. Remember when the president intimated that people should not have to have unwanted children? This is a kind of hatred of children. On the other hand other people believe children are a gift from God and that children are the future of this country. Ask yourself do you dread having children or do you have hope for the future of this country? Is the Democratic Party trying to spread the belief that children are bad and should be avoided? What is the real message about this?

Ok nutjob, a woman having access to birth control and modern medical care is all about killing babies. :disgust:

I suppose in your child loving world we would hold pregnant women hostage until they give birth or die in labor.

 

[imported_inspire]

Originally posted by: TruePaige

Originally posted by: Strk
As I said in the other thread, birthrate is stupid. You're only counting those who carry to term. Pregnancy rate is much more important.

A quick search found this (it's a PDF)

Why is pregnancy rate more important?

Girls who don't carry to term don't make society pay for their children and overall have a better chance at being a benefit to society.

It's important if you're trying to blame religion's stance on contraception for the high birth rates in these states.

Focus.

 

[imported_inspire]

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
So someone looked at birth rates and said "hey they have a lot of religious people" and publish a correlation.

OK, Democrats are more likely to commit violent crimes. Can I haz article?

I lol'led

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Originally posted by: inspire

Originally posted by: TruePaige

Originally posted by: Strk
As I said in the other thread, birthrate is stupid. You're only counting those who carry to term. Pregnancy rate is much more important.

A quick search found this (it's a PDF)

Why is pregnancy rate more important?

Girls who don't carry to term don't make society pay for their children and overall have a better chance at being a benefit to society.

It's important if you're trying to blame religion's stance on contraception for the high birth rates in these states.

Focus.

ROFL. Too funny.

 

[b0mbrman]

Originally posted by: Strk
As I said in the other thread, birthrate is stupid. You're only counting those who carry to term. Pregnancy rate is much more important.

A quick search found this (it's a PDF)

From that, the preggers ranks:

1 Nevada
2 Arizona
3 Mississippi
4 New Mexico
5 Texas
6 Florida§
7 California?
8 Georgia
9 North Carolina
10 Arkansas
11 Delaware
12 Hawaii
13 Maryland
14 New York
15 Alabama
16 New Jersey
17 South Carolina
18 Tennessee
19 Louisiana
20 Illinois
21 Oklahoma
22 Colorado
23 Oregon
24 Wyoming**
25 Kentucky
26 Washington
27 Michigan
28 Ohio
29 Missouri
30 Alaska?
31 Indiana
32 Virginia
33 Connecticut
34 Kansas
35 West Virginia
36 Rhode Island
37 Idaho
38 Montana
39 Pennsylvania
40 Massachusetts
41 Nebraska
42 Wisconsin
43 Iowa
44 South Dakota
45 Utah
46 Maine
47 Minnesota
48 New Hampshire§
49 Vermont
50 North Dakota

 

[Carmen813]

Correlation != causation. Many other possible explanations.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: TruePaige
-snip-
No, the pregnancy rate is unimportant. The birthrate is important.

Yes, the birthrate is important.

This article is raising birthrate AND and contraceptives.

Anti -contraceptives is a Catholic thing.

Anti-abortion is Christian thing in general.

Hence, the influence of anti-abortion must be factored in if you're only going to sho wresults based upon birth. If it's a religious teen they are less likely to consider abortion.

I think the better conclusion to draw from this sloppy work is that religious people, teens or otherwise, are less likely to seek abortions. Now who would've thought that?

Fern

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: EndGame
Yeah.......so?

I grew up in one of the states listed, Missouri so this caught my eye when the local news via internet reported this. Seems the highest teen pregnancy rates for that state at least were in St. Louis, Kansas City, Columbia & Springfield........the large cities, college cities, least religious and most predominately democrat areas......so, what does this report actually prove as far as true demographics?

Not saying this holds true for all states listed but for Missouri, the report seems to prove little. The rural areas of the state are the most religious, most republican and have the least teen pregnancies.......

Exactly.

Many of these religious states listed have large minority populations too. Populations which tend to have younger births.

There are way too many factors (apparently) ignored to make this study anything but worthless for any reason other than 'trolling' (I mean trolling by the article's author etc)

Fern

 

[WHAMPOM]

Originally posted by: b0mbrman

Originally posted by: Strk
As I said in the other thread, birthrate is stupid. You're only counting those who carry to term. Pregnancy rate is much more important.

A quick search found this (it's a PDF)

From that, the preggers ranks:

1 Nevada
2 Arizona
3 Mississippi
4 New Mexico
5 Texas
6 Florida§
7 California?
8 Georgia
9 North Carolina
10 Arkansas
11 Delaware
12 Hawaii
13 Maryland
14 New York
15 Alabama
16 New Jersey
17 South Carolina
18 Tennessee
19 Louisiana
20 Illinois
21 Oklahoma
22 Colorado
23 Oregon
24 Wyoming**
25 Kentucky
26 Washington
27 Michigan
28 Ohio
29 Missouri
30 Alaska?
31 Indiana
32 Virginia
33 Connecticut
34 Kansas
35 West Virginia
36 Rhode Island
37 Idaho
38 Montana
39 Pennsylvania
40 Massachusetts
41 Nebraska
42 Wisconsin
43 Iowa
44 South Dakota
45 Utah
46 Maine
47 Minnesota
48 New Hampshire§
49 Vermont
50 North Dakota

Looks more like high teen pregnancy rates go with states with poor education, high poverty rates and religion. The states with a large population of illegal immigrants are on top too, though I am still trying to get a handle on Hawaii. Anybody got an idea on hawaii?