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Techreport - 14nm Atom schedule being moved up

Enigmoid

Platinum Member
Sep 27, 2012
2,907
31
91
I'd rather have desktop/notebook moved up.

What I'd like from intel.

1. A little more performance gain each generation.

2. Separate dies for notebook and desktop. As it is, the only haswell notebook chips with will increase battery life are the ULV chips as the SV and quad parts are based on the desktop chips.

3. Get rid of the LGA 2011 platform business where its one gen behind mainstream. Offer 6 core chips as high end mainstream.

What I can't fault intel on

1. IGP gains. Impressive gains each gen and drivers have gone through a tremendous improvement since HD 3000.

2. Nothing can compete with intel efficiency wise.

3. Haswell ULV is amazing.

4. Don't seem to embellish their promises too much.
 

MisterMac

Senior member
Sep 16, 2011
777
0
0
IDF seems to be very interesting.


Althought i fear darker times for us high end enthusiast peeps.
 

blackened23

Diamond Member
Jul 26, 2011
8,548
2
0
How long before E becomes four years behind, mainstream two, and atom becomes cutting edge?

I don't see Intel abandoning the practice of having 40-50 SKUs of varying performance levels, with the lower end starting with Atom, celeron, pentium with the high end being core. They want to bridge the gap between atom and core, but the performance difference will still exist, IMO.

Even without desktop, core parts are still supplied for mobile form factors, I don't see it going away in the next decade. Intel's highest profit margins are from core mobile SKUs. Again - even without desktop, core SKUs are very profitable and relevant for mobile. Think of Atom occupying the lower 200-500$ price realm, with core being supplied for the 1500$ and up mobile products. And desktop too, of course.
 

seitur

Senior member
Jul 12, 2013
383
1
81
Yeah, I wondered if to start topic about this myself.

Anyway this seems like interesting thing.
 

krumme

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2009
5,956
1,596
136

Interesting is far from enough.

Intel should stop farting and start delivering.

Their Atom strategy have failed to deliver. Stop. And its not like they havnt tried. Stop.

Results is when there is atoms in meaningfull numbers in phones from apple or samsung. And perhaps to a lesser degree lg/sony.

Until then i will myself stop reading the usual pr blurbs, be it future reviews whatever. This praising or teasing of future fantastic products is pathetic and resemble the fantasy ppts and pr from gf.

Competition could be great and i would personally like eg. ms office full steam on my phone. But i dont need hot smelling air, i need the actual product to perform in top phone.
 

Lonyo

Lifer
Aug 10, 2002
21,938
6
81
Interesting is far from enough.

Intel should stop farting and start delivering.

Their Atom strategy have failed to deliver. Stop. And its not like they havnt tried. Stop.

Results is when there is atoms in meaningfull numbers in phones from apple or samsung. And perhaps to a lesser degree lg/sony.

Until then i will myself stop reading the usual pr blurbs, be it future reviews whatever. This praising or teasing of future fantastic products is pathetic and resemble the fantasy ppts and pr from gf.

Competition could be great and i would personally like eg. ms office full steam on my phone. But i dont need hot smelling air, i need the actual product to perform in top phone.

That's the whole reason they are pulling up the schedule...
It hasn't delivered yet, that's not a reason to stop. That's a reason to keep going to the point when it does deliver.
Bear in mind also that most products take time to plan and bring to market, and then there are the software issues.

Samsung has already picked Atom for the Galaxy Tab 3. One reason they are more in tablets than phones is power. Going for more advanced processors and architectures faster is more likely to get them to mainstream phone level.
Saying "stop" when their strategy does in fact appear to be working is stupid. They are delivering, bit by bit.

They are still on 32nm for shipping phone and tablet SoCs...
 

SiliconWars

Platinum Member
Dec 29, 2012
2,346
0
0
Samsung has already picked Atom for the Galaxy Tab 3. One reason they are more in tablets than phones is power.

That's like saying the only reason Intel is more in servers is performance. The Tab 3 is terrible btw, I honestly have no idea what Samsung think they are doing with that.

They are still on 32nm for shipping phone and tablet SoCs...
So is most of the competition (or worse).
 
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Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
21,110
64
91
The 14nm atoms are really going to be intriguing from a competition placement standpoint because that will be the node where Intel's chips will still get to experience 100% of all the intrinsic benefits of node scaling from 22nm whereas the competition will be stuck with using the funky hybrid nodes which will be 20nm BEOL and 16nm or 14nm FEOL.

2014 and 2015 could very well be the pivotal time that Intel pulls well ahead of the ARM competition all thanks to the process node advantage. Qualcomm and Apple simply won't have a choice in the matter because they won't have access to the process tech they need to remain competitive.
 

StrangerGuy

Diamond Member
May 9, 2004
8,443
124
106
The 14nm atoms are really going to be intriguing from a competition placement standpoint because that will be the node where Intel's chips will still get to experience 100% of all the intrinsic benefits of node scaling from 22nm whereas the competition will be stuck with using the funky hybrid nodes which will be 20nm BEOL and 16nm or 14nm FEOL.

2014 and 2015 could very well be the pivotal time that Intel pulls well ahead of the ARM competition all thanks to the process node advantage. Qualcomm and Apple simply won't have a choice in the matter because they won't have access to the process tech they need to remain competitive.

I wouldn't count on it. Intel successes for past 2 decades has everything to do with consumer demand for x86 and effective marketing and really nothing to do with their processes. Core could have been made on same node parity with AMD and the latter would still get demolished in sales.
 

blackened23

Diamond Member
Jul 26, 2011
8,548
2
0
I wouldn't count on it. Intel successes for past 2 decades has everything to do with consumer demand for x86 and effective marketing and really nothing to do with their processes. Core could have been made on same node parity with AMD and the latter would still get demolished in sales.

So nothing to do with performance, quality, and processes - but intel's success is solely due to marketing.

What? You don't really believe that do you?
 

Fox5

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2005
5,957
7
81
I see Atom eventually eating the Celeron market, possibly the Pentium market as well.

Is Atom a synthesized design? It would be interesting to see what a performance optimized, yet still small, core could do against the ARM and AMD competition.
 

Headfoot

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2008
4,444
641
126
I wouldn't count on it. Intel successes for past 2 decades has everything to do with consumer demand for x86 and effective marketing and really nothing to do with their processes. Core could have been made on same node parity with AMD and the latter would still get demolished in sales.

What fantasy world do you live in?

I'm sure Intel's billions in R&D and capital expenditures into fabs have nothing to do with the success of those products. It's all marketing... yup
 

blackened23

Diamond Member
Jul 26, 2011
8,548
2
0
I see Atom eventually eating the Celeron market, possibly the Pentium market as well.

Is Atom a synthesized design? It would be interesting to see what a performance optimized, yet still small, core could do against the ARM and AMD competition.

It's funny you mention this, because some Bay Trail SKUs will be using the Celeron monkier.
 

Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
21,110
64
91
I wouldn't count on it. Intel successes for past 2 decades has everything to do with consumer demand for x86 and effective marketing and really nothing to do with their processes. Core could have been made on same node parity with AMD and the latter would still get demolished in sales.

I don't know how exactly is best to respond to this post because it just seems so oddly out of touch that I can only hazard to guess you were rushed and didn't really have time at the moment to truly do your position justice.

For starters, what percentage of consumers over the past 2 decades would you guestimate have even heard of the term "x86" let alone factored it into their purchasing decision process at any given time when buying a computer?

Secondly, literally every aspect (and this isn't hyperbole, it is simple fact) of the electrical functionality of an integrated circuit comes down to the underlying process technology.

Everything from clockspeed to xtor density to cache latency to power consumption to operating temperature to device reliability and lifetime.

It is true that you can fail to design your chip to take advantage of the innate capability of the electrical parameters of a node, but it doesn't work the other way around.

So to put forth the argument that a CPU would have performed just as well in the market had it been cut-down as needed to fit into the electrical parameter space afforded by an older less sophisticated node is really silly on the face of it.

There was a reason AMD did so well at 90nm with their SOI-enabled process node versus Intel, likewise there is a reason Intel is doing so well now with their 32nm and 22nm nodes that enjoy similar technology advantages at the xtor level.

If all it really took was marketing to accomplish the same then Intel's decision makers would not have gone to all the expense of developing the process nodes they have developed...and Intel's competition would not have gone to all the expense they have gone through in an effort to keep up.
 

Ventanni

Golden Member
Jul 25, 2011
1,432
142
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Intel has always treated atom as a separate line than the core line of chips. that, and we all know Intel isn't at capacity for their 22nm production. once 14nm comes online, it's doubtful that they'll be at capacity on that node either unless they bring other products to take advantage of it. maybe it's a bold move to open up old fabs to more outsiders, leaving the latest node for Intel exclusively, but now that the atom market is more defined, bringing it to the latest node makes more sense.