Tech Report reviews X-Fi lowend

[Pariah]

Tech Report has a pretty indepth look at the X-Fi XtremeMusic edition comparing it to the ZS, Revolution and onboard Envy24. Should be of more interest to more users than the other reviews since it is of the hardware that most people can afford (Music/Platinum/Fatal1ty), rather than the slightly higher grade Elite Pro. Overall pretty positive.

Creative's Sound Blaster X-Fi audio processor - Xtremely good

 

[ViRGE]

They are right about one thing: with cans you'll definitely want to adjust them, it's very odd without the voices in your head.

 

[Rubycon]

Originally posted by: ViRGE
They are right about one thing: with cans you'll definitely want to adjust them, it's very odd without the voices in your head.

Oh I hear those voices all the time. On a good day I may even answer!



Oh mercy did I just hijack this thread?

 

[Ghouler]

nice review, I like when somebody does these listening tests, it is all subjective, but gives you some hints anyway, like here they observed that LCD Soundsystem sounds better with all the options on - and Johnny Cash - without.
Drivers and soft are apparently good this time. Very well.
I am waiting for my X-Fi to be delivered soon...

*anxciously rubbing his hands together*

(btw. Comtech sucks, I have never had to wait so long for any order to be delivered)

 

[ViRGE]

Alright, now that I'm not sleep deprived, how about a serious answer:

I think they largely hit the article spot on, though I'm talking more along the lines of the X-Fi alone, since I don't know much about most of the cards they compared it to. They make some good points both on the pros and cons of the card, but at the same time I think they end up in the rut most reviewers(and CL) find themselves in, and that is at the end of the day they're having a hard time making a case to justify buying one - they certainly recommend it, but throughout the whole review they note much is simply a marginal improvement.

The "sound quality" on the A2ZS is good enough that without a killer app at the moment, it's the features that need to sell users. The Crystallizer itself is very much a variable feature that not everyone will like(I don't), and as they note, it introduces distortion past 50%. The same can be said of their stereo-expanding features, which I noted earlier I don't care for and as a result want to keep the voices in my head. The only "killer" feature right now that isn't subjective at some level are their headphone improvements, in that the improved HRTF's finally put the X-Fi up to a level the Audigies should have been at a while ago in terms of properly creating a 3D sound environment(really making it a must-buy item if you use cans & 3D). But how many people out there use cans a lot? If you're not a cans user and you're already on Audigy-class hardware, it's just not a convincing buy.

TR also pointed out some concerning items with the product that I hope CL will address. The CPU usage for 127 voices with headphones is simply insane, the X-Fi is obviously doing some kind of offloading on to the CPU in this case. If this is a hardware issue, it's a major one, since it means CL didn't design the X-Fi to be powerful enough to actually do everything it's supposed to, and this limit may rear it's ugly head in places besides headphone usage. TR also makes a good point on the X-RAM feature, it needs to be standard, otherwise it's going to be next to useless for those people with it(since who's going to take time out to utilize a feature used by a fraction of a fraction of the audio base)?

 

[ribbon13]

PCI-e? No.
Dolby Digital Live? No.
Creative complains that DD is only 5.1? Well then where the fsck is live DTS-ES Discrete 6.1 encoding?
DRM worries? Please, any sound program can record whatever the computer is playing at the moment. The sounds Battlefield 2 makes while you're playing are spotaneous copywrited works that need protected from digital out so you can't enjoy home theatre gaming at it's best? What new poppy Hi-Def audio discs? I don't give a sh!t about whatever variety of white noise all the plebs are listening to. If I want to listen to DVD-A or SACD, I'll use my Denon. I'd take a wild guess it's only a matter of time before they're completely cracked open, and the one that gets cracked first will be more popular. So take your DRM pussyass excuse and shove it.

Someone needs to develop an audio card that supports newer EAX digitally encoded live in PCIe form, or whatever greedy corporate @sshat holding up logical progress at Creative needs to have his synaptic functions ended permanently.

/rant

 

[eplebnista]

Thanks for the link! :thumbsup:

 

[Pariah]

They make some good points both on the pros and cons of the card,

Yup, though your post conspicuously skips any comments on any of the pros of the card they mention and seems to respond to every con.

The "sound quality" on the A2ZS is good enough that without a killer app at the moment,

This has been true since long before the ZS. Onboard sound has been "good enough" for the vast majority of computer users for a few years now. The software side, lack of any killer apps, has been a far more crippling variable in the advancement of computer audio than the hardware. Audio has always been an afterthought for game developers, and I don't really think that has anything to do with Creative or any other hardware producer.

TR also makes a good point on the X-RAM feature, it needs to be standard, otherwise it's going to be next to useless for those people with it(since who's going to take time out to utilize a feature used by a fraction of a fraction of the audio base)?

From an acceptance standpoint, it certainly makes sense to make it standard on all cards. From a business standpoint, the development costs have to be recouped somewhere, and there has to be some way to differentiate the different models. And before some knucklehead asks how much it could possibly cost to slap 64MB on a soundcard. The answer is probably next to nothing, but in almost all circumstances, the actual cost in raw materials/parts is a small fraction of the overall cost of developing and marketing the product.

I also wouldn't be surprised if X-RAM is a standard feature, or at least available on a cheaper model when the next generation is released.

ribbon13:

<yawn>

Your post did a far better job of proving to the rest of the board you have no idea how product development works than I could have ever done on my own. So, I say thank you for saving me the typing.

 

[ViRGE]

Originally posted by: Pariah

They make some good points both on the pros and cons of the card,

Yup, though your post conspicuously skips any comments on any of the pros of the card they mention and seems to respond to every con.

Don't get me wrong Pariah, I have the same X-Fi right now(hey, I had to use that Audigy settlement GC) and I like it, but the only reason I got it was because of the improved HRTFs for headphones users. If I used speakers, there's just nothing about the X-Fi that makes it worth it over an Audigy for me, so if I sound negative, it's disappointment that in spite of just how long Creative's had to work on the X-Fi since the Audigy, it just hasn't gone very far. I mean, nothing else has changed for me, the straight-up quality of the audio isn't any better(though I will disagree with you on integrated audio, I wouldn't use anything below Audigy-class), I can't seem to appreciate the crystallizer, and the whole "audio ring" setup is lost on users such as myself.

For the gamer, Creative's usual stronghold, there just isn't that much going for the X-Fi in the end. And in the mean time, the fact that there appears to be a fairly major problem with the card(the CPU usage issue) isn't helping Creative.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: Ghouler
nice review, I like when somebody does these listening tests, it is all subjective, but gives you some hints anyway, like here they observed that LCD Soundsystem sounds better with all the options on - and Johnny Cash - without.
Drivers and soft are apparently good this time. Very well.
I am waiting for my X-Fi to be delivered soon...

*anxciously rubbing his hands together*

(btw. Comtech sucks, I have never had to wait so long for any order to be delivered)

It would have been nice if they did their subjective listening tests on something better than z-680s though...

 

[Pariah]

so if I sound negative, it's disappointment that in spite of just how long Creative's had to work on the X-Fi since the Audigy, it just hasn't gone very far.

On one hand you're saying the Audigy 2 ZS was already good enough, yet on the other you're saying the X-Fi didn't improve enough. Seems to be 2 contradicting points. I agree that the X-Fi isn't anything revolutionary, so if that's what you were expecting, then I understand your disappointment. But on the other hand, I kind of wonder what you were expecting. We've reached the point where main stream audio already exceeds the capabilities of the average users' speakers both in fidelity and speaker count, and as such, I don't see where or how there will ever be another "killer feature" in the audio market.

the straight-up quality of the audio isn't any better

Yes, it is, but again, if you don't have some really nice headphones or speakers, the ZS was probaby already exceeding their ability. That's not Creative's fault. It is not their responsibility to upgrade your equipment to be able to match theirs.

though I will disagree with you on integrated audio, I wouldn't use anything below Audigy-class),

The fact that you already sprung for an X-Fi removes you from the typical user category. Most users probably have no idea what an X-Fi even is.

I can't seem to appreciate the crystallizer,

I wasn't impressed by it either, just sounds louder to me. Part of the problem is that it probably works best with really poor quality encodes, which I don't have any of. If you actually buy your CD's, there really is no point in using it.

and the whole "audio ring" setup is lost on users such as myself.

That's not really an enduser feature. It gives developers more flexibility.

And in the mean time, the fact that there appears to be a fairly major problem with the card(the CPU usage issue) isn't helping Creative.

Fairly major in what sense? Do any games even come close to 64 voices, let alone 128? I didn't get the impression that Tech-Report thought anything of it. Could be an early driver release bug. If they can get that "fixed" in time for games that actually need that many voices in 2 or 3 years, I wouldn't consider it much of a problem.

It would have been nice if they did their subjective listening tests on something better than z-680s though...

Why? If they can hear differences with speakers that lowend, that would bode well for anyone with higherend gear. The reverse viewpoint is how useful would the review be if they were using some $25,000 component system that practically no one could afford? Most computers users use computer speakers, especially the ones going for the lowend XtremeMusic version they reviewed, so it would seem to make sense to use computer speakers for the listening tests.

 

[bubbamike]

I've been using a Hercules Game Theater for the last several years, is there any compelling reason to move back to Creative Labs? Of course with the derth of PCI slots on boards I'm going to have to pick and chose which cards I can carry over to my next one.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: Pariah

It would have been nice if they did their subjective listening tests on something better than z-680s though...

Why? If they can hear differences with speakers that lowend, that would bode well for anyone with higherend gear. The reverse viewpoint is how useful would the review be if they were using some $25,000 component system that practically no one could afford? Most computers users use computer speakers, especially the ones going for the lowend XtremeMusic version they reviewed, so it would seem to make sense to use computer speakers for the listening tests.

Yeah, it makes sense that they tested on computer speakers, but it would have been nice no test something more neutral in addition to the z-680s. What if there was a big difference in bass for example and Logitech's one note slam box of a sub didn't manage to show the difference?

I had z-560s for a couple years and really liked them, but I wouldn't call them ideal for listening to critical differences in soundcards. A card that would make them sound really good would probably have a lower bass level etc.

 

[ViRGE]

I have a feeling we're just going to go back and forth on this, but there are a couple of comments I'd like to respond to:

Originally posted by: Pariah
On one hand you're saying the Audigy 2 ZS was already good enough, yet on the other you're saying the X-Fi didn't improve enough. Seems to be 2 contradicting points. I agree that the X-Fi isn't anything revolutionary, so if that's what you were expecting, then I understand your disappointment. But on the other hand, I kind of wonder what you were expecting. We've reached the point where main stream audio already exceeds the capabilities of the average users' speakers both in fidelity and speaker count, and as such, I don't see where or how there will ever be another "killer feature" in the audio market.

I don't find it contradicting in how I meant things; my only point is that now that the reproduction of a single sound source has peaked CL needs to find new things to do, not just beat on the dead horse that is audio fidelity and achieve virtually nothing for their time.

As for what I want, this is going to be blasphemy for you, but I want to see them do for audio what the GPU did for video. I want multi-order reflections, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th until the cows come home(or at least a reasonable cutoff). I want my sound card being thrown a bunch of info on the scene and then it figuring out for itself what the world sounds like, so that when I'm underwater everything is realistically muffled instead of being a byproduct of a filter, and that when I'm in a cave I want to hear ambient echoes. There is much progress that can be made here, so by no means its Creative done yet.

Yes, it is, but again, if you don't have some really nice headphones or speakers, the ZS was probably already exceeding their ability. That's not Creative's fault. It is not their responsibility to upgrade your equipment to be able to match theirs.

For the record, I'm using a set of Sennheiser 497's, so while they're not audiophile cans, they are certainly not by any means mediocre. Quality wise, they are better than what I expect most gamers would have.

I wasn't impressed by it either, just sounds louder to me. Part of the problem is that it probably works best with really poor quality encodes, which I don't have any of. If you actually buy your CD's, there really is no point in using it.

I'm glad we can at least agree on something. That's the exact problem I have with it, it's like they made the highs and lows higher, the medium lower, and then cranked up the volume so that the medium is back where it started, which is not what I want.

Fairly major in what sense? Do any games even come close to 64 voices, let alone 128? I didn't get the impression that Tech-Report thought anything of it. Could be an early driver release bug. If they can get that "fixed" in time for games that actually need that many voices in 2 or 3 years, I wouldn't consider it much of a problem.

BF2 and similar large-scale wargames in fact come close, and it's my understanding from another forum that in Ultra-High X-Fi mode, BF2 can use all 127 voices if it wants(though I'm not sure it will ever peak at 127, but I certainly believe situations using more than 64 will occur). As such I find it a major problem, especially since we don't know at what voice count it starts occurring(I'd imagine that the CPU spike occurs before the 127th voice). There is also a principle issue of the card needing to be able to do what it's advertised to do; 80% CPU usage is not going to be usable for a game, so it's not living up to it's feature set at present time.