Teachers work 2000hrs/year, same as any other job?

[Brovane]

My wife is a second year teacher making about 43k. She works 10 hour days most days and takes home a lot of work to grade. She is expected to work many Saturdays with no extra compensation. She even has quite a few days that she has to work over the summer to recruit for her program. There are many teachers that don't get paid near enough. (Band director)

I feel that I am compensated relatively well for the work I put in. I feel that she is severely underpaid. Each teaching position is different and it's hard to judge what each position should be paid.

Who is expecting her to work Saturdays with no extra compensation and what is she doing?

The only time my Mom worked on a Saturday was when she was taking a class to get more hours to get more credits so she could move up on the pay range. She generally worked maybe about 2-weeks total during the summer getting her room ready for the new school year. This was variable depending on if she moved room or changed grades. If it was the same grade and she wasn't moving rooms she would show up just a couple of days before the teachers were expected to show up.

Does she have a Pension? If so are you accounting for those benefits when you says she is underpaid?
What is her job security like?

 

[Brainonska511]

My Mom retired and basically her take home pay actually went-up by a bit with her pension since she was basically maxed out on benefit years. However I do hate the sob stories from some teachers on how crappy they are paid when I know it isn't true.

Compensation and retirement packages vary from district to district. Some areas might pay just fine, and some pay junk. Some might have good pensions and others have crappy 403(b) plans loaded down with fees.

 

[Mai72]

Wait until Trump and Betsy Devos get into office.

Public education is going to look much different. For one, they have plans to break the teacher's union. $20B is going straight into the voucher program for minorities. Funding will probably be much less than it is currently.

I wonder if we will have an exodus of good teachers leaving the profession.

 

[Brainonska511]

Wait until Trump and Betsy Devos get into office.

Public education is going to look much different. For one, they have plans to break the teacher's union. $20B is going straight into the voucher program for minorities. Funding will probably be much less than it is currently.

I wonder if we will have an exodus of good teachers leaving the profession.

http://nyti.ms/2fSR1QP

The United States spends over $600 billion a year on public K-12 schools. Less than 9 percent of that money comes from the federal government, and it is almost exclusively dedicated to specific populations of children, most notably students with disabilities and students in low-income communities. There are no existing federal funds that can easily be turned into vouchers large enough to pay for school tuition on the open market.

Mr. Trump’s $20 billion proposal would be, by itself, very expensive. It may be hard to fit into a budget passed by a Republican Congress that has pledged to enact large tax cuts for corporations and citizens, expand the military and eliminate the budget deficit, all at the same time. Yet $20 billion isn’t nearly enough to finance vouchers nationwide, which is why Mr. Trump’s proposal assumes that states will kick in another $110 billion.

States don’t have that kind of money lying around. The only plausible source is existing school funding. But even if Ms. DeVos were to find a willing governor and state legislature, it’s not that easy. Roughly half of all nonfederal education funding comes from local property taxes raised by over 13,000 local school districts. They and their elected representatives will have a say, too.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Don't get me started on teachers...bunch a lazy fucks.

I seriously doubt that teachers are like you....

 

[dave_the_nerd]

You guys don't know much about school teachers of you think it's easy. 10 hours a day minimum with some being 14. I think the time off is well deserved. And lol at one year of school and you're qualified.

Assuming you already have a qualifying bachelor's degree* with a decent GPA, a teaching cert program is 6-15 months, depending on the school and the state's requirements.

*Admittedly that's a fairly big assumption

Example: http://education.utsa.edu/certification_program/Post_Baccalaureate_Certification_Program/

 

[Red Squirrel]

Teachers do work harder than most people realize. Just remember how hard you had to work in school, particularly in the homework and studying department. When the day is over, the work is not. Teachers have to correct all that homework, and the tests/exams you study for, and often it's on their own time and they have to bring it home. They also need to somewhat research and prepare the material for the next lesson. Take a science teacher for example, if there is a lab that day, the teacher has to prep it, maybe even perform the experiment on their own time to see the outcome, etc. I suppose the amount of work a teacher has to do on their own time varies a lot based on subject though. Or an English (or any language class really) teacher having to correct essays, that must be the most boring and long thing ever. Probably want to go back in time and murder Shakespeare by the time that's done.

Meanwhile most jobs, the work ends when the work day ends. This is not so true with teachers. The perk of teachers is getting summer, Christmas break and March break off though, so one could say they still have it good. The work is just more condensed.

 

[BoomerD]

Teachers do work harder than most people realize. Just remember how hard you had to work in school, particularly in the homework and studying department. When the day is over, the work is not. Teachers have to correct all that homework, and the tests/exams you study for, and often it's on their own time and they have to bring it home. They also need to somewhat research and prepare the material for the next lesson. Take a science teacher for example, if there is a lab that day, the teacher has to prep it, maybe even perform the experiment on their own time to see the outcome, etc. I suppose the amount of work a teacher has to do on their own time varies a lot based on subject though. Or an English (or any language class really) teacher having to correct essays, that must be the most boring and long thing ever. Probably want to go back in time and murder Shakespeare by the time that's done.

Meanwhile most jobs, the work ends when the work day ends. This is not so true with teachers. The perk of teachers is getting summer, Christmas break and March break off though, so one could say they still have it good. The work is just more condensed.

I'm sure the students do a very good job of murdering Shakespeare in tests and essays... 😛

 

[Sonikku]

I swear there are some people who won't be satisfied until we're all working 80 hours a week for minimum wage.

 

[Imp]

I'm sure the students do a very good job of murdering Shakespeare in tests and essays... 😛

It's hilarious that they even bother to teach Shakespeare in high school. A bunch of kids who probably have mediocre modern English language skills being forced to read and "love" ye olde English by their teacher, an old person.

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

The real question is: Do teachers also have the time to spend 90% of their working days neffing on ATOT?

 

[Majes]

Who is expecting her to work Saturdays with no extra compensation and what is she doing?

The only time my Mom worked on a Saturday was when she was taking a class to get more hours to get more credits so she could move up on the pay range. She generally worked maybe about 2-weeks total during the summer getting her room ready for the new school year. This was variable depending on if she moved room or changed grades. If it was the same grade and she wasn't moving rooms she would show up just a couple of days before the teachers were expected to show up.

Does she have a Pension? If so are you accounting for those benefits when you says she is underpaid?
What is her job security like?

She is a band teacher for an arts school. They hold auditions and concerts on the weekends. They also teach master classes for the students on Saturdays. It's not every Saturday she works, nor is it all day, but it is 2-3 times a month for a couple of hours at least. She doesn't have tenure yet so her job security sucks and while the pension plan here is decent it doesn't make up for having a base salary at around 40k.

 

[Ackmed]

My father in law has been in education for over 30 years, currently one of the principles of a very large high school down the road. My wife has a masters in education and taught for a few years. Most of their family teaches or is in the system, mostly in ATL.

I believe they are underpaid most of the time. Yes they get holidays and summers mostly off. Not as much as people think. It's not for years down the road until they start making decent money. This is area specific obviously. My wife often times had her own homework, grading kids schoolwork. Making lesson plans, etc. They don't simply work school hours. So much more goes into it.

Then it depends on what school you get and grades. So many kids are uncontrollable anymore. You can't really do anything to them. Sent them to ISS? Ok, they're right back. Suspend them? Ok, they're right back. Kids can do almost anything they want, teachers are powerless to stop them.

Then you have to pass students no matter what. Fail a kid because they're not doing well enough to pass? Can't have that. Dumb down the work so they pass, making it harder next grade on the next teacher. No child left behind is dumb.

Plenty of perks being a teacher, more bad I think. Really good teachers can make a huge impact on children. Sadly so many teachers get burnt out and it's not worth it anymore. My father in law gets so attached to graduating classes and some students. It can be very full filing. My wife quit and went back to what she did to get through college, store manager in retail. Instant 20k raise and less stress. Worse hours though. Quit now because we had our 4th last week. Staying home and will sub in a few years. That's the plan anyways.

 

[BarkingGhostar]

One of the problems I see is that some teachers put in the extra work and thus create an environment in which their employers abuse them. I do not speak for myself, of course, but my wife. She's a professor at a state college and she works way too much for her compensation--more than justifiable. She's isn't alone in this and when this happens the system accepts and expects this as business as usual. And while there is a teacher's union if it is anything like the union I have experienced it will be ineffective at positive change and only provide income to union employees and not the teachers.

So, a win-win for everyone but the teachers. But teachers are not the only ones, nor the only profession, in which this happens. I've overheard managers tell salaried employees that it was expected they work 60/week minimum. Of course this sometimes isn't revealed going into a new job, but that is something that should have been investigated and controlled beforehand(?).

 

[HumblePie]

Pay for teachers varies widely. Some schools pay more for teachers. Certain subjects usually pay more as well. Grade levels are another factor in pay. Then there is the factor of how long they've been teaching there as well as any higher education degrees earned. Usually all that affects pay.

When I was seriously looking for a bit for a teaching position I looked at all the schools around here. If I was willing to work in a rural area, or ghetto area, or ghetto rural area, then pay is usually a bit higher. That's because most teachers don't want to work there. Also teaching math, computers, or science tends to pay out far more. Why? Let's face it. The majority of people that want to be "teachers" are women. It is just the demographic. The majority of women that want to teach tend to want to teach anything except math, computers, or science. So the other subjects have a glut of people wanting to teach those subjects. Many rural schools were willing to pay $10K-$15K more just to teach at their school and another $10K bonus to teach one of the aforementioned three subjects. On top of that many were willing to allow me to start teaching right away with my Bachelor's Degree and professional business experience while allowing me to work on the job to "earn" my teaching cert. Most places liked that worked with the local community colleges to grant me a teaching degree if I worked for 2 years and attended 3-5 classes at most in my spare time.

Now the starting teaching pay is much lower than I make, but if I wanted to do a rural school teaching computer science around here the bare minimum I would get is $70K. In a few years it would go up to $80K. If I got a masters degree it would go up to $90K after a few more years I'd be over 6 figures. More so with tenure. It's a very tempting idea as I can start making close to what I make now, but I would have to be willing to take a bit of a pay cut for a few years to do so. Then I'd have far more vacation time, less work overall, and a pension setup versus the 401K setup I have now if I got tenure. I could even teach summer school and college courses at night/weekend for more.

Saying all teachers are paid pennies and work far more than everyone else as a blanket statement is completely false. As I have said before, that statement doesn't even apply the most teachers at all that I know around here.

 

[Sho'Nuff]

Just because the school day stops doesn't mean the work stops. At least not for the decent teachers.

Bah. I love teachers and appreciate that what they do is not easy. But this is cry me a river stuff. Everyone who teaches picked the job knowing full well the amount of work involved. So your argument is a bit like biting into a ghost pepper and complaining that its hot.

I'm a lawyer. You know when I work? Whenever my clients need me to. You know when a doctor works? Whenever his clients need him to. 365 days a year if need be (yes, I have worked xmas, and new years, and other major holidays). I don't like it, but I don't grouse about it to every person on earth like many teachers do.

Are many teachers underpaid? Yes. Are many overpaid? Absolutely yes. It should be a merit based system, not a lock step unionized machine like it is now.

FWIW - there are three teachers in my family. My brother, one brother in law, and one sister in law. They complain - A LOT. Particularly when they are taking their 2 months off in the summer or 3 weeks off in the winter. Its lovely.

 

[Sonikku]

What do they complain about while they're off work?

 

[Exterous]

Bah. I love teachers and appreciate that what they do is not easy. But this is cry me a river stuff. Everyone who teaches picked the job knowing full well the amount of work involved. So your argument is a bit like biting into a ghost pepper and complaining that its hot.

(snip)

FWIW - there are three teachers in my family. My brother, one brother in law, and one sister in law. They complain - A LOT. Particularly when they are taking their 2 months off in the summer or 3 weeks off in the winter. Its lovely.

I'm not necessarily sure thats true. We certainly weren't prepared for the deluge of terrible parents and children my wife was exposed to. The swearing, insults, threats, claims of racism and complete apathy towards education was mind boggling in its depth and frequency. Then you throw in having to watch absurd policies being required by those who are completely ignorant ruin the education of children and deal them a setback in life from which they may never fully recover from. This often lead to an increase in work for many as children needed help from someone in their lives. Or you changed doing what you signed up for (teaching) into spending most of your time being a classroom referee. I think the extent of this is a bit better known now but for people who graduated 10+ years ago there was lots of promise about the young minds you would mold that quickly ran into the growing brick wall of unsupportive parents and school boards (elected by and pandering to those same parents). Its wearing to see people not care about kids and actively work against proven methods. I've seen a lot of personalities change from bubbly and enthusiastic to sour and jaded. Fortunately my wife found a much better school district and complains much less despite working more.

But thats just from my own little corner of experience. I hope I am wrong and a huge number of teachers are just whiny but I suspect that is not the case

 

[Ackmed]

Who is expecting her to work Saturdays with no extra compensation and what is she doing?

My father in law has to "work" Saturday all the time. Or other nights. Because they're required to go to games for their school. Not all of them, but a good number. They divide them up as evenly as possible. His school just won state in football though, plenty of extra games and traveling. Baseball or basketball tournaments are pretty standard. School plays, parent/teacher days, etc. Plenty work weekends or week day nights all the time. With zero compensation.

 

[Elixer]

FWIW - there are three teachers in my family. My brother, one brother in law, and one sister in law. They complain - A LOT. Particularly when they are taking their 2 months off in the summer or 3 weeks off in the winter. Its lovely.

Yeah, I can think of no other profession (not including seasonal work) that gets that amount of time off, but all I hear is them bitching about what they have to put up with.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Yeah, I can think of no other profession (not including seasonal work) that gets that amount of time off, but all I hear is them bitching about what they have to put up with.

Everybody bitches about work. Some people more than others. In some cases, regardless of profession, people are just assholes.

If you dealt with the public all day (parents) you'd need a glass of wine and a foot rub sometimes too. It's no different than working retail, in that sense.

 

[nisryus]

It depends on where you are. If you lvie in SF Bay Area, even at 70k is not enough, which is what a teacher with few years of experience would get there. A co worker is from Kansas and his sister is teaching in middle school, and their starting was around 47k. So add student loan, insurance and other living expense, what seems like an ok starting pay was nearly nothing. She had to stay with their parents just to be able to stay afloat. Here in Austin a friend teaches English in RRISD. She is from California and had years of experience. She is only getting 55k after five years there. =/

 

[HumblePie]

It depends on where you are. If you lvie in SF Bay Area, even at 70k is not enough, which is what a teacher with few years of experience would get there. A co worker is from Kansas and his sister is teaching in middle school, and their starting was around 47k. So add student loan, insurance and other living expense, what seems like an ok starting pay was nearly nothing. She had to stay with their parents just to be able to stay afloat. Here in Austin a friend teaches English in RRISD. She is from California and had years of experience. She is only getting 55k after five years there. =/

I was bringing prices where I live in south Texas with a pretty cheap cost of living. 70K starting is a damn decent starting salary around here. That being said, if one wants to work as a music, art, or even English teacher at a "nice" school around here that has hundreds of applicants for any given position at any given time then starting salary is going to be around 30K or less.

 

[boomerang]

Bah. I love teachers and appreciate that what they do is not easy. But this is cry me a river stuff. Everyone who teaches picked the job knowing full well the amount of work involved. So your argument is a bit like biting into a ghost pepper and complaining that its hot.

You nailed it right there. I can't have any sympathy for people that are so unhappy with the profession they chose that they continually bitch and moan about it.

By many accounts too many children are out of control and it manifests itself in various ways. The parents don't care, the teachers can't do anything about it and I can fully understand how the job can be totally unappealing. I don't know the answer but my gut tells me it has to start in the home. We have a lot of societal problems with no easy answers. I feel it's going to take a restoration of an understanding of the value inherent in two parent homes for any real change to come about.

One thing that I find curious is that people that are educated to become educators, I'm talking about the decision makers here, appear to have poor skills in regards to the best way to educate children. There appears to be a too frequent reinvention of the process, none of which actually work. If you're trained to perform a job, how is it that when you can't perform it, you are allowed to remain in the job? How often does that happen in the world outside of the educational system? How is it that after many centuries of formal education being in place, educators don't know how to effectively educate? One would think that an system could have been devised by now. Is this just change for the sake of change?

 

[Majes]

I was bringing prices where I live in south Texas with a pretty cheap cost of living. 70K starting is a damn decent starting salary around here. That being said, if one wants to work as a music, art, or even English teacher at a "nice" school around here that has hundreds of applicants for any given position at any given time then starting salary is going to be around 30K or less.

It's different here in Maryland... Most counties are in the 40k starting range and all positions start at the same rate... No wonder we have such a huge teacher turn around.