Teachers Programs = affirmative action?

[slackerinabox]

NYC has a teachers fellows programs that's pretty great for qualified applicants- they cover the expenses necessary for certification (including grad school) and place you as a teacher. They also provide a direct career path, vs. just being certified (and trying to find work on your own).

My wife has applied twice and was given rave reviews for her application and her trial (an exercise teaching lesson plans to panel members). She graduated top of her class in grad school and actually taught for 2 years back when she was in college. She's perhaps overly qualified, yet was waitlisted both times (with no call backs).

A good friend of mine had the same experience and, after getting rejected to the program before, went on to just pay her way and ended up graduating with honors from Columbia University, which found her qualified enough. She's now been teaching for 5 years and jokes that her accent (southern) might have put off the selection community (she says "ASK" vs. the more acceptable "axe you a question").

They're both very qualified but are also white, when the city constantly talks about promoting diversity in schools (lots of white people want to be teachers, I guess).. The police department and the fire department have also been trying to "diversify."

What I'm wondering is, shouldn't this be considered discrimination? Since she's always wait listed she doesn't even get the courtesy of a rejection + reasons, just a "you're an outstanding applicant, and we'll keep you posted."

 

[lxskllr]

What I'm wondering is, shouldn't this be considered discrimination? Since she's always wait listed she doesn't even get the courtesy of a rejection + reasons, just a "you're an outstanding applicant, and we'll keep you posted."

Of course it's discrimination, but it's ok because your wife's white.

 

[Crusty]

I don't understand why you think this is discrimination...

 

[shortylickens]

I'm sorry, got a little confused. Your wife is white, correct?
If she is, you cant complain. Being racist against whites is perfectly acceptable in America. Especially when it comes to getting jobs and such. In most places its not even considered racist.

See Also: Seattle public schools.

 

[lxskllr]

I don't understand why you think this is discrimination...

I'm assuming his wife's more qualified than some of the colored applicants. If not, then I retract my previous statement.

 

[Mike Gayner]

I don't see any evidence of discrimination here. Just a very sought after program that can only accept a finite number of applicants. Is there any actual evidence that affirmative action is taking place?

 

[spidey07]

Call the ACLU. I'm sure they would jump at the chance to take this clear discrimination to court.

oh...wait.

 

[slackerinabox]

I don't understand why you think this is discrimination...

Well, the city constantly says that there's an urgent need for qualified teachers, and set up this program just for that. She's qualified, especially since many of the applicants in her pool were ESL (they spoke engrish or street), many of whom only had their BAs. She has her BA and MA, taught, and gave highly rated performances for her trials. It seems odd that they'd pass up a great applicant twice with waitlists, vs. rejections (for her being incompetent or unqualified).

 

[Kalmah]

Positions should be filled based on qualifications alone. No "we can't hire another white person because we are short on Hispanics" BS.

Not being racist by hiring a diverse group based on race is being racist.

 

[slackerinabox]

I don't see any evidence of discrimination here. Just a very sought after program that can only accept a finite number of applicants. Is there any actual evidence that affirmative action is taking place?

Nah, I'm posting this to hear feedback from teachers re: quotas, not asking for legal advice.

I'm not going to sue anyone, I'm just wondering if I should convince my wife to pursue a plan b vs. trying again...

 

[MrChad]

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local...artment_announes_405_million_in_school_b.html

Perhaps they simply don't have the budget to take on new teachers? Also, you should consider the candidates' teaching backgrounds. If they are looking for math teachers and the candidates are English majors, they probably won't get accepted even if their qualifications are stellar.

 

[theflyingpig]

There's a reason why more teachers are white, but I'll just let you figure out why that is. Everyone knows this.

 

[Mike Gayner]

Well, the city constantly says that there's an urgent need for qualified teachers, and set up this program just for that. She's qualified, especially since many of the applicants in her pool were ESL (they spoke engrish or street), many of whom only had their BAs. She has her BA and MA, taught, and gave highly rated performances for her trials. It seems odd that they'd pass up a great applicant twice with waitlists, vs. rejections (for her being incompetent or unqualified).

Do you know anything about the applicants that were accepted? Or are you just assuming it's discrimination without having any facts?

 

[Crusty]

Well, the city constantly says that there's an urgent need for qualified teachers, and set up this program just for that. She's qualified, especially since many of the applicants in her pool were ESL (they spoke engrish or street), many of whom only had their BAs. She has her BA and MA, taught, and gave highly rated performances for her trials. It seems odd that they'd pass up a great applicant twice with waitlists, vs. rejections (for her being incompetent or unqualified).

Maybe her qualifications put her in a pay grade that they can't afford right now and they would rather hire people that would command a lower salary?

 

[shortylickens]

Nah, I'm posting this to hear feedback from teachers re: quotas, not asking for legal advice.

I'm not going to sue anyone, I'm just wondering if I should convince my wife to pursue a plan b vs. trying again...

If it really is just an issue of filling quotas then she should keep trying there but also interview for other positions around the city. I dunno if they will ever tell her what place she is on the list or if she's behind other people simply because they arent white. And if she's as awesome as you say she is, then eventually she should get the job after they are done filling quotas.
In the meantime, she should find some sort of work, just to let them know that they passed up on an awesome woman simply because of a stupid policy. If they keep losing good people all the time eventually they will start to fight that policy.

 

[slackerinabox]

Do you know anything about the applicants that were accepted? Or are you just assuming it's discrimination without having any facts?

Ha, my ex was accepted- she just had a B.A. and no teaching experience. She's also very jewish, vs. WASP (a difference of note in nYc). Got her BA in a totally un-related field as well (womens studies, while my wife has her BA in english)

I know that's not evidence, and evidence would not be obtainable by an arm chair critic like myself.. I mean, ok, I'll humor you. What is some evidence I, as a non-investigator who doesn't want to spend months researching hiring practices, have?

 

[Mike Gayner]

Ha, my ex was accepted- she just had a B.A. and no teaching experience. She's also very jewish, vs. WASP (a difference of note in nYc). Got her BA in a totally un-related field as well (womens studies, while my wife has her BA in english)

I know that's not evidence, and evidence would not be obtainable by an arm chair critic like myself.. I mean, ok, I'll humor you. What is some evidence I, as a non-investigator who doesn't want to spend months researching hiring practices, have?

I'm not asking you to gather evidence, I'm just saying you're jumping to some pretty big conclusions with nothing to back it up. Also, hiring white jews = affirmative action now? Maybe your wife just sucks at interviews.

 

[slackerinabox]

If it really is just an issue of filling quotas then she should keep trying there but also interview for other positions around the city. I dunno if they will ever tell her what place she is on the list or if she's behind other people simply because they arent white. And if she's as awesome as you say she is, then eventually she should get the job after they are done filling quotas.
In the meantime, she should find some sort of work, just to let them know that they passed up on an awesome woman simply because of a stupid policy. If they keep losing good people all the time eventually they will start to fight that policy.

Thanks for the advice, she currently has a full time job in a field that she doesn't really like (but is directly related to her education, and she gets paid quite well). She's always wanted to teach but the expense for schooling (and leaving her full time job) is something we're weary of, and this program would help tremendously with that concern.

 

[techs]

"Promoting diversity" may, or may not mean affirmative action.
Usually not.

What it means is the City will do things to attract qualified applicants of traditionally discriminated minorities.
For example, they can advertise the job more in neighborhoods with a high minority population.
Affirmative action is pretty much dead nowadays. Pretty much only in fields where there is a huge disparity, or their has been a court order will you still find it.

Maybe they had more qualified applicants?

 

[slackerinabox]

I'm not asking you to gather evidence, I'm just saying you're jumping to some pretty big conclusions with nothing to back it up. Also, hiring white jews = affirmative action now? Maybe your wife just sucks at interviews.

I'm not jumping to the conclusion, just converting buzzwords ("increase diversity throughout city positions) into what I view is logical and raising a question. Though you're right, I never really stated my question clearly and just ranted. "Do school systems have race based quotas, in an effort to 'reflect the local communities diversity'?" I see it everywhere, how the NYPD wants black cops working black areas, etc. I wonder if it extends to the board of ed...

Also, white jews in NYC does not equal southern/mid-western raised white. White jews are considered locals, while mid-westerners are often othered. I used to do the othering myself, considering most of them hicks! Which is completely wrong and pig headed of me, but I've grown a bit since then.

 

[MrChad]

Thanks for the advice, she currently has a full time job in a field that she doesn't really like (but is directly related to her education, and she gets paid quite well). She's always wanted to teach but the expense for schooling (and leaving her full time job) is something we're weary of, and this program would help tremendously with that concern.

Has she looked into Teach for America? Similar program and benefits, but places teachers nationwide.

 

[slackerinabox]

Has she looked into Teach for America? Similar program and benefits, but places teachers nationwide.

Never heard of it, but I just emailed her to look into it. Thanks!

 

[MrChad]

Never heard of it, but I just emailed her to look into it. Thanks!

PM me if you have more specific questions. My wife is a TFA alum who taught in NYC.

 

[slackerinabox]

PM me if you have more specific questions. My wife is a TFA alum who taught in NYC.

AWESOME! much appreciated.

FYI, my wife never screamed discrimination. She's thankful that she's wait listed, I'm just shocked because I'm a product of the NYC public school system and personally have had teachers with 1/4 of the smarts and 1/10th of the on paper qualifications as my wife. Heck, my match teacher in elementary school used to be the gym teacher...

 

[Inspector Jihad]

I'm sorry, got a little confused. Your wife is white, correct?
If she is, you cant complain. Being racist against whites is perfectly acceptable in America. Especially when it comes to getting jobs and such. In most places its not even considered racist.

See Also: Seattle public schools.

being white is so hard 🙁