Teacher suing for right to carry concealed

[PrinceofWands]

One of many news links

English teacher Shirley Katz insists she needs to take her pistol with her to school because she fears her ex-husband could show up and try to harm her. She's also worried about a Columbine-style attack.

But Katz's district has barred teachers from bringing guns to school, so she is challenging the ban as unlawful, since Oregon is among states that allow people with a permit to carry concealed weapons into public buildings.

...

Good for her. There are a lot of teachers that feel this way, but are afraid to come forward, fearing negative publicity and reprisals at work. I have been trying to work in Washington to come up with workable exceptions for all adults who are otherwise allowed to carry to do so nearly anywhere, including schools. There is absolutely no reasonable argument against it, only paranoia and emotional outcries. I have had a longstanding challenge to anyone who can make a sound argument against allowing concealed carry on school campuses. In fact, I'll buy anyone who can do so a pitcher of whatever they're drinking at any bar in the pacific nw.

 

[Narmer]

Well, if she's going to take a gun to school, how about allowing everyone else, kids included, to take a gun as well? That's only fair. She ain't special. Either nobody takes a gun or everybody does. Simple as that. That way, if there's ever a problem it can solved with a 50 caliber D'Eagle, rather than reason and logic:roll:.

 

[theeedude]

I hope her ex husband is allowed to conceal carry too 🙂
Second amendment FTW 😀

 

[Enig101]

What's she going to do if there's a "Columbine-style attack"? Start shooting at students in a building full of children?

Guns do not belong in schools, period.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: Narmer
Well, if she's going to take a gun to school, how about allowing everyone else, kids included, to take a gun as well? That's only fair. She ain't special. Either nobody takes a gun or everybody does. Simple as that. That way, if there's ever a problem it can solved with a 50 caliber D'Eagle, rather than reason and logic:roll:.

A D'Eagle? Oh good, a Counterstrike kiddie who knows nothing about real guns.

Children can't get concealed carry licenses. Why would they be allowed to carry in school?

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: Enig101
What's she going to do if there's a "Columbine-style attack"? Start shooting at students in a building full of children?

You'd prefer they just stand there and watch while students get shot?

[/quote]
Guns do not belong in schools, period.[/quote]

Yes, and obviously the laws that prevent teachers from carrying in school have done a great job of keeping guns out of school. :roll:

 

[jonks]

Well she's screwed now, since her psycho husband now knows that she's carrying he now knows to knock her out or kill her instead of just confronting/harassing her.

 

[Narmer]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: Narmer
Well, if she's going to take a gun to school, how about allowing everyone else, kids included, to take a gun as well? That's only fair. She ain't special. Either nobody takes a gun or everybody does. Simple as that. That way, if there's ever a problem it can solved with a 50 caliber D'Eagle, rather than reason and logic:roll:.

A D'Eagle? Oh good, a Counterstrike kiddie who knows nothing about real guns.

Children can't get concealed carry licenses. Why would they be allowed to carry in school?

I've never played Counterstrike in my life so I don't know what you're talking about. However, I have fired a desert eagle. That thing is LOUD. It's simply too powerful as well.

Children carrying concealed weapons was a joke on my part. Relax.

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: Enig101
What's she going to do if there's a "Columbine-style attack"? Start shooting at students in a building full of children?

You'd prefer they just stand there and watch while students get shot?

Guns do not belong in schools, period.[/quote]

Yes, and obviously the laws that prevent teachers from carrying in school have done a great job of keeping guns out of school. :roll:

[/quote]

Agreed. All the "no guns" signs and laws have done a FANTASTIC job of keeping violence out of schools so far. Could we maybe get some "No shooting spree" signs put up so that we don't have any more of those?

Oh, and of course police officers shouldn't be able to bring guns into schools.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: Narmer
Well, if she's going to take a gun to school, how about allowing everyone else, kids included, to take a gun as well? That's only fair. She ain't special. Either nobody takes a gun or everybody does. Simple as that. That way, if there's ever a problem it can solved with a 50 caliber D'Eagle, rather than reason and logic:roll:.

Like I said, there is no reasonable argument against allowing it. Only stupid responses like this one. Thanks for proving my point so admirably.

😎

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: Enig101
What's she going to do if there's a "Columbine-style attack"? Start shooting at students in a building full of children?

Guns do not belong in schools, period.

There is absolutely 0 logic in that response. You're right, she should just lay down and die. God forbid someone ever attempts to defend themselves. It's more important that each of us is willing to die for nothing than risk possible injury to someone else after all. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[teclis1023]

As you increase the number of guns carried, you increase the number of times that guns will be used.

 

[sandorski]

bad idea. More Guns is no answer, No Guns is the answer.

 

[Narmer]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: Narmer
Well, if she's going to take a gun to school, how about allowing everyone else, kids included, to take a gun as well? That's only fair. She ain't special. Either nobody takes a gun or everybody does. Simple as that. That way, if there's ever a problem it can solved with a 50 caliber D'Eagle, rather than reason and logic:roll:.

Like I said, there is no reasonable argument against allowing it. Only stupid responses like this one. Thanks for proving my point so admirably.

😎

Your love of gun is some deep desire for something else (hot dogs or death?). Whatever it is, you obviously haven't been shot before or else you'd quickly realize that having a plethora of guns in such a small area will either turn that area lawless or a gravedigger's wetdream. You need to seek help. This teacher should not have a gun around children. What is she going to do if her hubby comes, have a shoot-out in the classroom? You, my friend, are the stupid one.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: teclis1023
As you increase the number of guns carried, you increase the number of times that guns will be used.

Proof?

Furthermore are you differentiating between lawful use (ie defense) and non-lawful?

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: Narmer

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: Narmer
Well, if she's going to take a gun to school, how about allowing everyone else, kids included, to take a gun as well? That's only fair. She ain't special. Either nobody takes a gun or everybody does. Simple as that. That way, if there's ever a problem it can solved with a 50 caliber D'Eagle, rather than reason and logic:roll:.

Like I said, there is no reasonable argument against allowing it. Only stupid responses like this one. Thanks for proving my point so admirably.

😎

Your love of gun is some deep desire for something else (hot dogs or death?). Whatever it is, you obviously haven't been shot before or else you'd quickly realize that having a plethora of guns in such a small area will either turn that area lawless or a gravedigger's wetdream. You need to seek help. This teacher should not have a gun around children. What is she going to do if her hubby comes, have a shoot-out in the classroom? You, my friend, are the stupid one.

Oh REALLY?

So if her husband (or a columbine wanna-be) comes there and she is unarmed we have 100% guarantee of her death, and probably the death of the children as well. That's a given.

If she's armed there is at least some chance that casualties would be minimized.

Some chance is better than no chance.

I wasn't aware 2 (1 criminal, 1 good guy) constituted a plethora.

BTW, ex-military, self defense instructor, firearms instructor, dozen years working security (armed and unarmed).

Long story short, you have yet to make a rational argument with support for your position.

 

[Henrythewound]

here's a damn good reason. Allowing her to have a gun in the classroom (even on her person) introduces the possibility of a kid accidentally killing/injuring another kid. Just having the gun in the room makes this possible. As a former teacher I'll say that even though you think your personal possessions are safe where you put them in your classroom, they are not. I would not want my kid in a classroom with a gun.

 

[Harabec]

Originally posted by: Henrythewound
here's a damn good reason. Allowing her to have a gun in the classroom (even on her person) introduces the possibility of a kid accidentally killing/injuring another kid. Just having the gun in the room makes this possible. As a former teacher I'll say that even though you think your personal possessions are safe where you put them in your classroom, they are not. I would not want my kid in a classroom with a gun.

"Concealed Carry".
Do you think she's going to sit down, put her gun on the table in front of everybody and say "I assume no one intends to interrupt me today"?

 

[teclis1023]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: teclis1023
As you increase the number of guns carried, you increase the number of times that guns will be used.

Proof?

http://www.nationmaster.com/gr...-murders-with-firearms

There seems to be a clear correlation between # of firearm deaths and # of firearms.

I'm not for or against gun control...I recognize that the vast number of US firearm crimes are done with non-registered guns. Furthermore I will probably own a gun when I am older.

But that doesn't change the fact that as you increase the number of guns in a society, you increase the possibility of them being used.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Topic Summary: It's about flipping time someone other than me grew a pair

A prince with boobs??? Now that's an intimidating thought. :laugh:

Sorry... Couldn't resist. 😛

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: Henrythewound
here's a damn good reason. Allowing her to have a gun in the classroom (even on her person) introduces the possibility of a kid accidentally killing/injuring another kid. Just having the gun in the room makes this possible. As a former teacher I'll say that even though you think your personal possessions are safe where you put them in your classroom, they are not. I would not want my kid in a classroom with a gun.

How? Specifically? What proof do you have of that? I'd like some links to instances where it has happened, and some research/statistics to support your statement. Until then it's just an opinion without basis.

A gun in a retention holster, concealed about my person, is not 'put in my classroom'. It's exactly as I described it.

I don't want kids (under 21) in class with guns either. Good thing no one is advocating that.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: Enig101
What's she going to do if there's a "Columbine-style attack"? Start shooting at students in a building full of children?

Guns do not belong in schools, period.

If you remove shepherds from the flock you will invite and only have wolves.

If she is in the right place, at the right time, she could kill the killer(s) before a large number of lives are lost. Something you apparently couldn?t care less about.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: teclis1023

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: teclis1023
As you increase the number of guns carried, you increase the number of times that guns will be used.

Proof?

http://www.nationmaster.com/gr...-murders-with-firearms

There seems to be a clear correlation between # of firearm deaths and # of firearms.

I'm not for or against gun control...I recognize that the vast number of US firearm crimes are done with non-registered guns. Furthermore I will probably own a gun when I am older.

But that doesn't change the fact that as you increase the number of guns in a society, you increase the possibility of them being used.

Actually no there's not. Look at firearm crimes and deaths in other heavily armed nations and you'll see that it's hit and miss. Some nations have a lot of guns, and lots of crimes with them, while others have next to none. And some nations with very few guns still manage a high proportion of gun related crimes. The correlation is only high in isolated cases and can therefore be discounted as causal.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Topic Summary: It's about flipping time someone other than me grew a pair

A prince with boobs??? Now that's an intimidating thought. :laugh:

Sorry... Couldn't resist. 😛

Are you threatening my MAN BOOBS???!!! 😉

 

[Atomic Playboy]

I work at a school where we can't bring peanut products on campus for fear that some children may have nut allergies. To me, this seems like an unreasonable fear. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that 100 percent of the world's population of humans is allergic to being shot. This seems more reasonable to avoid having around children.

We're getting stories in the media about kids having sex in class when the teacher steps out. What's to stop those kids from breaking in to the teacher's desk while she's using the toilet and shooting themselves? Also, I don't care if this woman spends every waking hour at the shooting range imagining how she'd go all John McClane if something ever went down; the last thing we need around our children is people who lack professional training, including not just gun safety training, but stress training, negotiation tactics, and other training that helps define when in fact it is reasonable to shoot at someone, armed with guns. Someone bursts into class, teacher overreacts and shoots him, turns out it's a parent running late to pick their kid up for an appointment. All it would take is one accidental shooting and guns would be immediately banned again.

Let me say that I am ok with police officers carrying guns on school campuses. I think most police officers are with it enough people that they aren't going to haul off and shoot a kid. Even if they do, police forces have special panels to determine whether a shooting was acceptable; teacher's unions don't. Leave the guns to the police.