TBird & Cu shim & alpha (thermal paste between the shim???)

[RavenatUWM]

Hi,
My friend is building a TBird system, he amazingly found a Alpha PAL6035, he also bought a Copper shim for it. We were wondering if he needs to put thermal paste between the shim & the CPU, and the shim & the Alpha. If he did this would this aid in the cooling of the TBird? Right now he is only using the shim to prevent core cracking. We were just wondering if it could also help cool the processor if we put thermal paste on it.

Thanks,
Cale & Raven

 

[Mikewarrior2]

Putting grease on the shim itself does nothing. It contacts idle substrate, and in fact, may screw up the l2 bridges on a duron/t-bird(depending on type of grease).

The core(in hte middle of the chip) is the only place where grease should be applied.

Mike

 

[RavenatUWM]

So the only part of the CPU that gets hot is the core(the blue or green part)? The rest would not bennifit from any sort of cooling? Just trying to straighten things out.

 

[Mikewarrior2]

With the heat of the duron/t-bird core, it may spread alittle bit of heat to the substrate(where the shim fits), but not enough to justify smearing/wasting grease all over the chip. Chances are, you won't see any temp improvement whatsoever with grease there, so I would advise against it.

And yes, the blue-green center is the cpu core(pretty much all of the cpu) and the only heat producing part of the cpu.

Mike

 

[RavenatUWM]

So, by getting the shim, all he is doing is insuring that he won't crack the core? I guess that might be worth the $10, but we were kinda hoping it would do a little more than that. Hmm, I guess he'll just have to settle for a core that isn't broken rather than a cooler CPU.

 

[Maverick2002]

hmmmmmmmm.......im in the market of gettin one.......dont know how itll perform though....interesting thread......any solid numbers?

 

[Mikewarrior2]

Yeah, it is solely to prevent cpu core chipping. Its effect on cpu cooling is, if anything, very,very insignificant.


Mike

 

[Dexion]

The only benefit I can see with that particular copper shim is the use of a peltier setup. However, since the Tbird's heat output is higher than most peltiers out there(at least for me on my current setup, I tried a 72 watt, it got hotter). I see it rather dangerous using peltiers, and even more dangerous using high output 72+ watt pelts.

 

[evilboy]

Yes sir! Be very careful with thermal paste and the Lx bridges! Just apply the paste on the core and nothing else, not even the heat sink. Most people put too much on and end up insulating the core!
I used arctic silver TP, applied a small coating on the core of my new 1G T-Bird, and installed the HSF. I turned on the power and immediately smelled burning wires. Well, i shut off the power and checked everything out. It turns out that my CPU fried because of a little finger print of Arctic Silver on the Lx bridges!
Luckily, I got one back on warranty! Lucky me...learned my lesson though!


Evil Boy

 

[Mikewarrior2]

artic silver is not conductive unless it is under high pressure.

Perhaps hte pressure between heatsink, cpu, and the copper shim would be enough to make AS conductive electrically, but i'm not sure.


Mike

 

[Hittman]

Plycon says

<< Installation requires the removal of the four small pads found on the CPU. Once these are removed you MUST apply non-electrically conductive thermal grease over all of the CPU's surface. If you do not do this you risk shorting the CPU. Note that we've heard back from a few customers who have used the pencil trick to unlock their CPUs, and they report that the Zinc Oxide grease negates their unlock when it is applied. Easy solution: simply use clear acrylic nail polish over the traces. This prevents any conflict between the graphite and grease, and is also an additional protection against a short. >>

So there does appear to be some debate about how to install the spacer. They seem to imply that the copper spacer may be conductive enough to damage the bridges.

Hittman

 

[Mikewarrior2]

The original question was whether or not putting grease on the shim would aid in cooling. I still think the answer to that is no.

And i can also see how the copper might interfere with the duron bridges. IN that case, you have to use something non-electrically conductive, and preferably, something cheap(like RS grease), since it isn't used for cooling, rather to prevent the bridges from interacting with the shim.

But does the grease effect any graphite l2 bridge connections?


Mike

 

[RavenatUWM]

Mike, would that clear nail polish thing work to protect the bridges? Could I paint over the L1 bridges with nail polish after I unlock it with the defogger kit?

 

[tgillitzr]

Yes, I would recommend using thermal paste, not for helping transfering heat, but to keep it in one place.

If you bought the one from Plycon, you MUST used silicon paste between the shim and the ceramic.

If you bought the one from 3DFXCool(which I make) then it is not needed.

Does it lower temps? No.
It did however seem to slow down the heatup of the cpu.

 

[Mikewarrior2]

hmm... how did you connect the l2 bridges?

I'd be hesitant to use any grease that might smear a pencil lead connection.

But if you need hte grease to hold the shim in place, then by all means use it. Just make absolute sure it isn't going to be conductive.


Mike

 

[tgillitzr]

go to 3dfxcool, my shim does not cover the bridges

i designed it so it wouldn't, kinda stupid to put a conductor on top of somethign that can be easily shorted.

 

[RavenatUWM]

check out the shims at
http://www.overclockershideout.com/

they seem very nice

 

[tgillitzr]

I agree.

Those seem really cool.

However, they MUST be a pain to make, and with that design, there is NO room for error in manufacturing.

You think everyone of them are tested? Couldn't tell you that, but I know mine are.

 

[RavenatUWM]

well, that is why you pay them to make it for you, cause I do not want to do it myself.

 

[subhuman]

Mikewarrior2 is right, is HURTS performance to put thermal greese between the ship and the CPU -- it adds distance between the shim and the processor, and could raise temperature. I remounted my CPU and my new maximum was 1008 -- before I could only get 980mhz no matter what I did.

 

[lagvoid]

i just ordered a pretty nice looking one for 9shipped. it has holes for the feet and a cut out for the bridges.
http://hardware.sobservers.com/coppershim.jpg
hope this one is flat as can be so the hsf has good contact with the die