Taxpayer money to build squirrel bridges, 400 Large

[dainthomas]

So if (I mean when) I bring an example to the table of animals adaption very quickly to human activities based on evolutionary pressures you will admit you are wrong?

Of course they can. But if we can go a long way toward saving them for a relative pittance (admit it, it is) then we should.

I realize everyone's angry about various recent bailouts and whatnot, but let's try to keep some perspective. This isn't giving billions to BigWig McBucks Bank to keep giving mortgages to homeless people, it's spending Obama's one year salary on saving a species. Maybe you conservatives can at least concede 400k is better spent on this than Obama?

 

[ayabe]

So if (I mean when) I bring an example to the table of animals adaption very quickly to human activities based on evolutionary pressures you will admit you are wrong?

Ohh I'm sure you can find something, doesn't make your assertion any more valid. Cars are not something any animal is prepared to deal on a biological level. Which differs greatly from things like grizzlys and polar bears fucking due to global warming.

Humans still get hit by cars you know.

 

[Patranus]

Ohh I'm sure you can find something, doesn't make your assertion any more valid. Cars are not something any animal is prepared to deal on a biological level. Which differs greatly from things like grizzlys and polar bears fucking due to global warming.

Humans still get hit by cars you know.

Are humans part of nature?

If humans are part of nature wouldn't their actions also be "natural"?

If nature causes humans to build roads who are the natural actions of humans (a combination of chemical reactions in the brain resulting in an action) how is that any different than a monkey using other tools to hunt or dolphins using echolocation to confuse schools of fish?

 

[nonlnear]

Are humans part of nature?

If humans are part of nature wouldn't their actions also be "natural"?

If nature causes humans to build roads who are the natural actions of humans (a combination of chemical reactions in the brain resulting in an action) how is that any different than a monkey using other tools to hunt or dolphins using echolocation to confuse schools of fish?

Consistency fail.
By this line of reasoning it is absolutely undeniable that the bridges are natural as well. In fact, even the stimulus is natural, as well as our entire dysfunctional Congress. Get over it, or get a real argument.

 

[classy]

I wonder if I can get the feds to pay me $400,000 to stop shooting the squirrels that raid my bird feeders??

Cha ching!!!

You are shooting a squirrel because the animal is trying to get food? Pathetic

 

[Craig234]

Consistency fail.
By this line of reasoning it is absolutely undeniable that the bridges are natural as well. In fact, even the stimulus is natural, as well as our entire dysfunctional Congress. Get over it, or get a real argument.

You forget examples of adaptation, like the Buffalo hunted nearly to extinction learning to turn invisible. Tens of millions of invisible buffalo still roam the plains.

As soon as humans evolve to adapt to that and invent the camera that can take pictures of invisible buffalo, you will see them.

 

[nick1985]

You are shooting a squirrel because the animal is trying to get food? Pathetic

I shot a beaver once after it cut down about 3k worth of my father's newly planted trees.

 

[shiner]

You are shooting a squirrel because the animal is trying to get food? Pathetic

Ahhh...does it hurt your widdle feelings?

I'm shooting them because the little bastards are destroying the feeders in the process.

 

[ElFenix]

You forget examples of adaptation, like the Buffalo hunted nearly to extinction learning to turn invisible. Tens of millions of invisible buffalo still roam the plains.

As soon as humans evolve to adapt to that and invent the camera that can take pictures of invisible buffalo, you will see them.

you should really post more stuff like this.

 

[piasabird]

The president now wants to spend 1.4 Bil to get people to ride bikes and exercise. Well if he could pay off my house, I could afford to have more time to exercise.

 

[BoberFett]

you should really post more stuff like this.

Craig hasn't posted nearly as much lately, this is probably the result. Everyone needs a mental health break from P&N now and then, it would do them good.

 

[werepossum]

Here is a pic of what they are doing...

Looks a little more fancy then just a rope.

Squirrels breed like the rats they are. If this species (probably subspecies) is down to 250 individuals they obviously aren't the brightest bulbs in the chandelier, so they need a rope with safety rails. They're OSHA squirrels.

You are shooting a squirrel because the animal is trying to get food? Pathetic

Squirrels ARE food.

 

[StageLeft]

I shot a beaver once after it cut down about 3k worth of my father's newly planted trees.

Understood. I like bunnies, they're cute. No issues. However, I also have vegetables in my garden and I was quite pleased to hear that my neighbor saw two of her cats chasing them. Probably killing them to protect my veggies. Bunnies are cute, but I love my tomato plants more.

 

[Throckmorton]

They're an endangered species, a part of our national heritage. Just because you think it's funny because squirrels are cute and we're building bridges for them, doesn't make it a bad use of $400k. That's the cost of a freaking suburban McMansion, and this is an entire SPECIES we are talking about. Do you get it? It's a species that will be extinct if 240 of them get run over on the highway. That means the product of millions of years of evolution of life on earth, the repository of gigabytes of genetic data, never to be seen again, thanks to us.

 

[BoberFett]

They're an endangered species, a part of our national heritage. Just because you think it's funny because squirrels are cute and we're building bridges for them, doesn't make it a bad use of $400k. That's the cost of a freaking suburban McMansion, and this is an entire SPECIES we are talking about. Do you get it? It's a species that will be extinct if 240 of them get run over on the highway. That means the product of millions of years of evolution of life on earth, the repository of gigabytes of genetic data, never to be seen again, thanks to us.

How many types of squirrel are there? Is this squirrel special in some way?

Sometimes I wonder if scientists don't call the lichen on one side of the rock a different species than the one on the other side just to get their name on a "discovery."

Anyone here knowledgeable on what the requirements are to call something a new species? Hell, we don't say blond people are a different species than brunettes. Why does different coloration make for a different species elsewhere?

 

[tk149]

Saving a species for $400k is pork? Just think, we could have bought 1% of a tank instead. Christ.

Edit: Or deported several hundred illegals (so they can come right back). That HAS to be a higher priority than saving an entire species, right?

I would be all for just using a regular rope between two trees on opposite sides of the road. Should not cost anywhere near that much to do, maybe $25 for the rope and $100 for a guy to install it. Squirrels run along power cables all the time, so it seems like they could make it across on a regular rope.

This. If the gubment intended to do some major mountain landscaping, I could see spending $400K. But unless someone can prove that squirrels NEED elaborate rope bridges as pictured in this thread, this is a pork project.

Let's also not forget that getting run over may not even be a significant drain on the squirrel population, which means that this could be money spent for nothing.

Dr. Robin Silver of the Center for Biological Diversity says researchers think cars kill about six of the rare squirrels a year but it is hard to be sure of that number because scavengers clean up the road kill so quickly.

$400K / 6 squirrels per year = $66,666 squirrels. These are researchers who estimate that number. You're telling me that 6 deaths a year is decimating the squirrel population? Geez, they must breed once every decade or so.

Find the real reason they're dying off, and fix THAT.

PORK-O-MATIC

 

[MotF Bane]

You forget examples of adaptation, like the Buffalo hunted nearly to extinction learning to turn invisible. Tens of millions of invisible buffalo still roam the plains.

As soon as humans evolve to adapt to that and invent the camera that can take pictures of invisible buffalo, you will see them.

Whoa, invisible buffalo? Cool. Now we'll carpet bomb the area with fragmentary explosives. Blood should be visible, and then we can eat them all.

 

[werepossum]

How many types of squirrel are there? Is this squirrel special in some way?

Sometimes I wonder if scientists don't call the lichen on one side of the rock a different species than the one on the other side just to get their name on a "discovery."

Anyone here knowledgeable on what the requirements are to call something a new species? Hell, we don't say blond people are a different species than brunettes. Why does different coloration make for a different species elsewhere?

There is not and will probably never be a universally accepted definition of a species. Within each discipline's systematics there are lumpers, who tend to see fewer species but more races and perhaps subspecies, and splitters, who tend to see more species. Some indications of a valid species include historic genetic isolation (meaning that the group of animals or plants or bacteria has not mingled with other recognizable species in a reasonable amount of time), present genetic isolation (meaning that the group of animals or plants or bacteria is not now interbreeding with other recognizable species), identifying characteristics distinguishable from other similar species, and an identifiable ecological niche. Difference may be color, if two similar but differently colored species breed true and can't interbreed or interbreed according to hybridization rules, but usually isn't.

If an animal is truly unique then it's an easy decision, but most animals are not truly unique. A scientist will look at the spread in characteristics between different similar populations and decide for herself if there is a net difference at genus level, or species level, or subspecies level, or race, or simply diverse individuals. One scientist may see a unique species; another scientist may see a subspecies. It also depends on how you look. A scientist genetically investigating the Mount Graham red squirrel may find it approaching the level of a separate species due to its genetic variation, while another studying its ecological niche and systematics may find it a subspecies and a third studying defining characteristics may find it merely a race. Tamiasciurus hudsonicus grahamensis is currently considered a subspecies of the common American red squirrel, so it's technically an endangered subspecies rather than an endangered species. It varies from the red squirrel in its genetics, size, coloration, habitat, and morphology, so it certainly deserves at least its subspecies status and therefore protection.

It's an academic discussion anyway, as the Arizona Department of Transportation has decided not to build the squirrel bridges just because the Federal Government is willing to borrow money for it.
http://www.eacourier.com/articles/2010/06/18/news/breaking_news/doc4c1bed3801f2c142931203.txt
Kind of ruins my response to TK149 - the real reason they're dying off is probably due to their trees being filled with scientists and tree bridge construction workers. Oh well. For the record, squirrel populations are usually dependent on mast production, and this squirrel has been hard hit by infestations of invasive non-indigenous insect and by drought.

 

[werepossum]

Whoa, invisible buffalo? Cool. Now we'll carpet bomb the area with fragmentary explosives. Blood should be visible, and then we can eat them all.

You forgot their other evolutionary protection - invisible buffalo neurotoxin.

 

[Hacp]

They're an endangered species, a part of our national heritage. Just because you think it's funny because squirrels are cute and we're building bridges for them, doesn't make it a bad use of $400k. That's the cost of a freaking suburban McMansion, and this is an entire SPECIES we are talking about. Do you get it? It's a species that will be extinct if 240 of them get run over on the highway. That means the product of millions of years of evolution of life on earth, the repository of gigabytes of genetic data, never to be seen again, thanks to us.

400k? On squirrels? Are you serious? If squirrels get 400k, I deserve 400k as well. Wait, I forgot you conservationists think all species are precious except humans. If there were only 2 mosquitoes left on earth, you guys would be scrambling to save them!

 

[Throckmorton]

400k? On squirrels? Are you serious? If squirrels get 400k, I deserve 400k as well. Wait, I forgot you conservationists think all species are precious except humans. If there were only 2 mosquitoes left on earth, you guys would be scrambling to save them!

Of course we'd want to save the last 2 mosquitoes on the earth. Hell, that Noah guy saved them didn't he? Every species contains irrecoverable genetic data. Once you destroy a species it's gone forever. Aside from the historic value of the squirrel species's DNA, consider that it MIGHT be the one species that possesses the key to eternal life, or a cure to cancer, or a cure to your stupidity.

Are you OK with spending $400,000 to save a historic site, for example that WWII cross erected in the desert? Or should we just forget it because you can spend the money on more fun things like McMansions?

$400k is NOTHING and you know it. Stop with the feigned outrage. We get it, you hate spending money on conservation and science, and if you can make something sound silly you will do so for political purposes.

 

[Throckmorton]

Not to mention that the $400k is going right into the economy. Squirrel bridges don't make themselves. It will help people more than a handout. That's the very definition of stimulus.

 

[ericlp]

I blame oboma. Oh wait...

Hey well, at lease someone is getting a job building the bridges! I'd love to see a picture of this bridge after it's done. Where where you when Shara Palin was building a bridge to NO Where. Hmmmm...

 

[Hacp]

Not to mention that the $400k is going right into the economy. Squirrel bridges don't make themselves. It will help people more than a handout. That's the very definition of stimulus.

If the definition of stimulus is waste, then yes it is stimulus. There is a difference between building something desirable and building something fucking useless!

 

[Hacp]

o

I blame oboma. Oh wait...

Hey well, at lease someone is getting a job building the bridges! I'd love to see a picture of this bridge after it's done. Where where you when Shara Palin was building a bridge to NO Where. Hmmmm...

Which is why we need to reduce ALL government spending. People decide what they want. Government spending on these bridges is like government taking 20 bucks from your pocket and using it to buy rice grains to feed the birds migrating south.