Taxafornia at it again

[Nebor]

Milk doesn't eat away your teeth and has a lot less sugar.



Fortified soda would be just as bad for you as unfortified soda is now. The calories come entirely from sugar, so the calories would be just as empty and the carbonation and various acids in soda would still do just as much damage to your teeth.

Milk actually has quite a bit of sugar (lactose.) 4 oz. of milk has 1.5 teaspoons of sugar, and 4 oz of pepsi has 2.5 teaspoons of sugar. Milk also has a lot of fat. I'm not saying that milk is bad for you... but it's probably not the answer to obesity.

 

[michal1980]

These are really just liberal solutions to the problems conservatives have created in society by inflating their own egos, running down and disparaging the week and nonconforming, by telling them they are worthless slackers from the time they are children. Self destructive life styles are just these folks way of getting even by destroying themselves and taking others with them. We have taught them they are worthless enough to want to do this by our selfishness and indifference to their pain because we are in just such pain ourselves and will not see it. Disdain for the weak is just another form of self destruction. But you will never see or understand because you do not want to and the complexity of thought and the introspective clarity to do so is prevented by your defective inability to reason. Have a great day.

So to wrap up you long winded crap.

- There is no such thing as self control, and responsibility.

You are not responsible for what you put in your mouth, or in your body. And because of that everyone should pay more so that you can continue being fat/lazy/etc etc.

The selfish are the fat that do nothing to change their condition. The selfish are those that expect everyone ELSE to pay for their actions.

 

[LunarRay]

So to wrap up you long winded crap.

- There is no such thing as self control, and responsibility.

You are not responsible for what you put in your mouth, or in your body. And because of that everyone should pay more so that you can continue being fat/lazy/etc etc.

The selfish are the fat that do nothing to change their condition. The selfish are those that expect everyone ELSE to pay for their actions.

It seems a tad much to require compliance with one selfish position to avoid being selfish by not doing so.

This is about a consumption tax. A means to raise revenue in an ad hoc manner based on some notion that Soda Pop is ripe for taxation under the guise of the syrup being 'sinful'.

The glutton who consumes many ounces of syrup pays many times more tax that the casual consumer... That seems the opposite of selfish. They pay for their 'Sin'.

I think your understanding of Moonbeam's proffer is less that his meaning.

 

[michal1980]

It seems a tad much to require compliance with one selfish position to avoid being selfish by not doing so.

This is about a consumption tax. A means to raise revenue in an ad hoc manner based on some notion that Soda Pop is ripe for taxation under the guise of the syrup being 'sinful'.

The glutton who consumes many ounces of syrup pays many times more tax that the casual consumer... That seems the opposite of selfish. They pay for their 'Sin'.

I think your understanding of Moonbeam's proffer is less that his meaning.

You are taxing just one form of calorie. There is nothing inherently sinful about calories.

 

[LunarRay]

You are taxing just one form of calorie. There is nothing inherently sinful about calories.

Booze has calories and it is sinful for purposes of taxation so why not Soda... It is not about calories though.... it IS about finding methods to raise revenue aside from a blanket income taxation increase on business. It may be true that Soda is not the best of foods and that marks soda as a candidate for taxation...

I seem to recall some sort of taxation on vehicles that didn't meet some mpg standard... maybe that is similar... sort of.

I don't think taxation will affect the consumption of soda much given it is an inelastic product... It does seem to be a simple taxation issue and finding stuff that folks can go along with.

 

[michal1980]

Booze has calories and it is sinful for purposes of taxation so why not Soda... It is not about calories though.... it IS about finding methods to raise revenue aside from a blanket income taxation increase on business. It may be true that Soda is not the best of foods and that marks soda as a candidate for taxation...

I seem to recall some sort of taxation on vehicles that didn't meet some mpg standard... maybe that is similar... sort of.

I don't think taxation will affect the consumption of soda much given it is an inelastic product... It does seem to be a simple taxation issue and finding stuff that folks can go along with.

Whats the point of additional revenue?

If government wants more money, they should stop passing more sin taxes, and more fees. Start raising income/sales taxes if they want more money.


Alcohol is far different then soda. Overconsumption can far more directly effect others then overeating.

Fat people don't have a high rate of driving while fat and killing people.


Furthermore, define 'not the best of foods'. Eat meet? That's bad. Cheese, fuck that's fatty, bad for you. Whole milk. same thing. Juice, that's nothing but empty calories. nothing but rice, beans, water, and an apple a day. Anything more, you might get fat, and that's bad.


Finally. The same lefties that are always pushing these food taxes, are the same ones that keep telling us we shouldn't tell people how to live their lives.

 

[LunarRay]

Whats the point of additional revenue?

If government wants more money, they should stop passing more sin taxes, and more fees. Start raising income/sales taxes if they want more money.

That is not a prudent thing to do given the objective being to shift taxation to a more direct ad hoc notion... IF they can. Perhaps the governmental folks are trying to create an alternative to soda so that milk might be consumed instead. Maybe the milk lobby wrote the tax bill on soda... Who knows what is in their minds... one thing for sure, though... syrup seems to be consumed by young folks more so than oldsters... ergo, the motive might be that oldsters vote.

Alcohol is far different then soda. Overconsumption can far more directly effect others then overeating.

Fat people don't have a high rate of driving while fat and killing people.

IF you view it myopically perhaps... But, there are kids who don't drive that might be adversely affected by soda...who'll grow up and drink booze and drive and stuff and such.... who knows...
It is about consumption taxation...

Should I be taxed to repair the highway if I don't drive on them???

Furthermore, define 'not the best of foods'. Eat meet? That's bad. Cheese, fuck that's fatty, bad for you. Whole milk. same thing. Juice, that's nothing but empty calories. nothing but rice, beans, water, and an apple a day. Anything more, you might get fat, and that's bad.

Well... 'Best of foods' seems to be those that provide more good stuff then those that don't...

I eat pizza and soda and milk and eggyies and French toast and stuff like that and I'm not fat... In fact, I weigh less now than when I was in college... Same body fat percentage, though.

Finally. The same lefties that are always pushing these food taxes, are the same ones that keep telling us we shouldn't tell people how to live their lives

Seems to me that there is quite a bit of "how to live life" going on and has gone on for quite some time now... We hire folks to inform us about what is good and bad and we expect government to enact prudent law to sort of keep us in a reasonable conduit of good for us parameters.
I want taxation on some stuff to offset the cost incurred dealing with the result of those kinds of stuff... I don't want telling folks they can't do 'x' or 'y' but neither do I want to pay for their doing what might cost me too.

 

[zsdersw]

so are we taxing juice?

that's evil too. lots of empty calories. and acid. acid is bad.

I don't know, I hope not. I don't want any food or beverage to be taxed.

 

[zsdersw]

Milk actually has quite a bit of sugar (lactose.) 4 oz. of milk has 1.5 teaspoons of sugar, and 4 oz of pepsi has 2.5 teaspoons of sugar. Milk also has a lot of fat. I'm not saying that milk is bad for you... but it's probably not the answer to obesity.

Milk doesn't have acids that eat away your teeth like soda does. Milk has sugar, yes, but with soda you get the acidic eating-away of your teeth and a ton of sugar.

And as far as milk and obesity, it's not at all a cause of or solution to obesity. Milk is one of the best-for-you things you can drink (aside from freshly extracted fruit and vegetable juice).

 

[michal1980]

I want taxation on some stuff to offset the cost incurred dealing with the result of those kinds of stuff... I don't want telling folks they can't do 'x' or 'y' but neither do I want to pay for their doing what might cost me too.

So the simpler solution is to allow insurance companies (all insurance companies included medicare/medicaid) to price in the risk of weight.

Furthermore, this soda tax isn't being used to offset any costs resulting from over consumption of soda. The tax is being raised so that new government education programs can be implemented.

 

[JockoJohnson]

Milk doesn't have acids that eat away your teeth like soda does. Milk has sugar, yes, but with soda you get the acidic eating-away of your teeth and a ton of sugar.

And as far as milk and obesity, it's not at all a cause of or solution to obesity. Milk is one of the best-for-you things you can drink (aside from freshly extracted fruit and vegetable juice).

I would beg to differ. Milk will rot away your teeth. I learned my lesson as a father. When my son was a baby, I would let them have their bottle filled with milk and fall asleep with it sometimes. What happens is that the milk sits in the mouth, eating away at the teeth. This went on for about two months before I had to stop it and have two of his teeth removed because the milk ate away at the teeth.

For those that don't like anecdotal evidence, here are two links. They were the first two found on Google when searching for "Milk eats away at teeth"

http://www.famis.org/stayinghealthy_dental.cfm?language=English
http://www.livestrong.com/article/460674-does-milk-help-heal-teeth/

So does that mean we should tax milk? I don't think so but it can be pretty dangerous if not used properly.

 

[Nebor]

Milk doesn't have acids that eat away your teeth like soda does. Milk has sugar, yes, but with soda you get the acidic eating-away of your teeth and a ton of sugar.

And as far as milk and obesity, it's not at all a cause of or solution to obesity. Milk is one of the best-for-you things you can drink (aside from freshly extracted fruit and vegetable juice).

I'm not sure that's true. Given the majority of the world is lactose intolerant (pretty much only Western European descendants have a lactose tolerant rate greater than 80%,) and the enormous amount of calories contained in a substance meant to quickly grow a baby cow, I don't think milk is as sure a bet as some would like to think.

Personally I love milk, and use it for calories when I'm trying to bulk up. But to pretend that it's totally natural for us to have commercialized what amounts to cow juice on an international scale is a bit silly.

 

[zsdersw]

I would beg to differ. Milk will rot away your teeth. I learned my lesson as a father. When my son was a baby, I would let them have their bottle filled with milk and fall asleep with it sometimes. What happens is that the milk sits in the mouth, eating away at the teeth. This went on for about two months before I had to stop it and have two of his teeth removed because the milk ate away at the teeth.

For those that don't like anecdotal evidence, here are two links. They were the first two found on Google when searching for "Milk eats away at teeth"

http://www.famis.org/stayinghealthy_dental.cfm?language=English
http://www.livestrong.com/article/460674-does-milk-help-heal-teeth/

So does that mean we should tax milk? I don't think so but it can be pretty dangerous if not used properly.

I'm sure there's very few, if any, things that are good for you if you let it sit in your mouth for hours. Nice try, but that's not a criticism of milk.

 

[zsdersw]

I'm not sure that's true. Given the majority of the world is lactose intolerant (pretty much only Western European descendants have a lactose tolerant rate greater than 80%,) and the enormous amount of calories contained in a substance meant to quickly grow a baby cow, I don't think milk is as sure a bet as some would like to think.

Personally I love milk, and use it for calories when I'm trying to bulk up. But to pretend that it's totally natural for us to have commercialized what amounts to cow juice on an international scale is a bit silly.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/22349307/...t/does-milk-really-do-body-good/#.UX5686LIXgE

Lactose tolerance of those of Western European descent is no more to the point than the fact that those with darker skin have a higher natural resistance to sunburn; it's a natural adaptation. Is the sun really any significant amount better or worse for any of us? Not really. Is milk significantly more or less healthy for any of us whether we're tolerant of the lactose or not? Not really.

 

[Nebor]

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/22349307/...t/does-milk-really-do-body-good/#.UX5686LIXgE

Lactose tolerance of those of Western European descent is no more to the point than the fact that those with darker skin have a higher natural resistance to sunburn; it's a natural adaptation. Is the sun really any significant amount better or worse for any of us? Not really. Is milk significantly more or less healthy for any of us whether we're tolerant of the lactose or not? Not really.

I agree that milk is a good muscle-builder. The problem is, here in a thread about taxing highly caloric soda in an effort to fight obesity, milk isn't really a great substitute for children or adult. Low levels of activity combined with highly caloric liquids (milk or soda) result in obesity. Our body's ability to perceive liquid calories is basically nil, so those calories tend to just be "extra" on top of whatever is eaten that day.

 

[drebo]

Juice can be just as bad for a kid as Soda is. In fact, many kinds of juice drinks have more sugar in them per volume than soda does.

The problem here is that parents don't want to take responsibility for their actions.

Just fucking say NO! It's a kid. What's it going to do...throw a temper tantrum? Big fucking deal.

Taxes aren't a replacement for proper parenting, and that is why this tax is bullshit.

 

[zsdersw]

I agree that milk is a good muscle-builder. The problem is, here in a thread about taxing highly caloric soda in an effort to fight obesity, milk isn't really a great substitute for children or adult. Low levels of activity combined with highly caloric liquids (milk or soda) result in obesity. Our body's ability to perceive liquid calories is basically nil, so those calories tend to just be "extra" on top of whatever is eaten that day.

Yes it is. What do you get from soda except sugar? Nothing. What do you get from milk except some sugar? Protein and calcium, for sure.

Does soda provide longer-lasting energy for any kind of physical activity? No. Does milk? Yes.

 

[zsdersw]

Juice can be just as bad for a kid as Soda is. In fact, many kinds of juice drinks have more sugar in them per volume than soda does.

Yeah, it's gotta be "no added sugar" juice.. and even without added sugar, gotta go easy on it.

 

[Nebor]

Yes it is. What do you get from soda except sugar? Nothing. What do you get from milk except some sugar? Protein and calcium, for sure.

Does soda provide longer-lasting energy for any kind of physical activity? No. Does milk? Yes.

I know I haven't said this before (well maybe 5 times in this thread): I like milk. But for most Americans, who are sedentary, swapping soda for milk isn't a good plan. Yes, milk is marginally better for you than soda, but what they need is water, or tea. Non-caloric liquids. What's the point of milk giving longer-lasting energy for any kind of physical activity to people who sit and play videogames all day?

 

[zsdersw]

At work (public school district) nutritional guidelines changed last summer required the cafeteria to stop offering 2% milk... yet didn't do anything about the fat-free chocolate milk. We can still have 1%, though.. which is good, because I refuse to drink skim; tastes like shit, IMO.

I'm sorry, but 2% milk is better for kids than fat-free chocolate milk.. which has more sugar. It's not fat that's making kids fat.. it's sugar.

 

[zsdersw]

I know I haven't said this before (well maybe 5 times in this thread): I like milk. But for most Americans, who are sedentary, swapping soda for milk isn't a good plan. Yes, milk is marginally better for you than soda, but what they need is water, or tea. Non-caloric liquids. What's the point of milk giving longer-lasting energy for any kind of physical activity to people who sit and play videogames all day?

Marginally? No, it's significantly better. Protein makes you feel full longer than empty carbs like sugar do. When you feel full you eat less.

I agree water, tea, and other no-calorie things are what most Americans need to drink more of.

 

[michal1980]

Marginally? No, it's significantly better. Protein makes you feel full longer than empty carbs like sugar do. When you feel full you eat less.

I agree water, tea, and other no-calorie things are what most Americans need to drink more of.

If your goal is to fit obesity because you are drinking to many calories. Then milk is only marganily better.

 

[zsdersw]

If your goal is to fit obesity because you are drinking to many calories. Then milk is only marganily better.

How many sodas does the average kid or soda-drinking adult drink in a day? How much milk do milk drinkers drink in a day? Hint: the amounts aren't nearly the same. Marginally better? No, try significantly better.

Soda is consumed in such massive quantities compared to milk, for many reasons.. but part of why even those who love milk don't drink as much of it in a day as those who love soda drink soda is because you don't feel the urge to; it fills you up. That full feeling keeps you from drinking more or eating a lot.

 

[Nebor]

You're a milk nazi.

 

[zsdersw]

You're a milk nazi.

Not really... but I'm not sure if that's a criticism coming from you. Aren't you typically very authoritarian?