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Tax Revenues hit all time high: $2.66 trillion

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Atreus21 said:
First, that's precisely the problem.

Second, if that's true, I'd like my taxes back.
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Think of the government as a good father who likes to take good care of his family. Instead of feeding them bread and water he likes to give them some protein and leafy greens. In order to do so he has to get promoted and earn more income, so he raises taxes to pay for them. This is how any good Christian conservative would act, no?
 
Atreus21 said:
First, that's precisely the problem.

Second, if that's true, I'd like my taxes back.
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The government has a job to do regardless of how irresponsibly taxes have been cut. You can only wrangle so much out of the budget. It's just stupid at this point to argue over saving millions in the budget when we need half trillions. And no you won't just magic Medicaid into amazing savings.
 
Moonbeam said:
Think of the government as a good father who likes to take good care of his family. Instead of feeding them bread and water he likes to give them some protein and leafy greens. In order to do so he has to get promoted and earn more income, so he raises taxes to pay for them. This is how any good Christian conservative would act, no?
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If the government were analogous to a father, yes.

The government isn't this. They're not our caretakers, and we are not children. We elect them to serve.
 
dank69 said:
Reform Medicare. Nice way of saying cut spending on it. Not going to win any elections on that platform.
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Call it whatever you want. Is it responsible to allow this problem to continue because no elections will be won advocating a viable solution?
 
dank69 said:
You say there is plenty of room for cuts. List some out for us instead of spouting platitudes. What will you cut to get our budget under control? Medicare? Medicaid? Military spending?
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Repealing Obamacare would be a good start. We could price index Social Security, means test SS/Medicare benefits, increase Medicare deductibles, reduce farm/food/energy subsidies, consolidate our military branches, reduce overseas contingency operations, privatize airport screening/TVA/Corps of Engineers, reduce income tax credits, cut foreign aid, repeal the Davis-Bacon Act, reduce various grants, etc. etc. etc.

There are many ways we can reduce spending.
 
Atreus21 said:
Call it whatever you want. Is it responsible to allow this problem to continue because no elections will be won advocating a viable solution?
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How are these cuts going to happen? Sick people just not treated? You can't just magic these cuts into existence with wishful thinking.
 
Doc Savage Fan said:
Repealing Obamacare would be a good start. We could price index Social Security, means test SS/Medicare benefits, increase Medicare deductibles, reduce farm/food/energy subsidies, consolidate our military branches, reduce overseas contingency operations, privatize airport screening/TVA/Corps of Engineers, reduce income tax credits, cut foreign aid, repeal the Davis-Bacon Act, reduce various grants, etc. etc. etc.

There are many ways we can reduce spending.
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So true. Look at how much Somalia spends on that shit. If we had their budget we could pay our taxes with spare change.
 
AyashiKaibutsu said:
How are these cuts going to happen? Sick people just not treated? You can't just magic these cuts into existence with wishful thinking.
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Cue hyperbole #1.

Yes, that's our dearest hope. To deny seniors the care they were promised. Nothing will give our evil overlords greater pleasure.

God, how did anyone survive before Medicare?
 
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Moonbeam said:
To serve as a parent, no, to care for the people?
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People are better off looking to their own interests than empowering a paternalistic government.

The government is not composed of our betters. I know how to take care of my children better than they do. I know my job better than they do. They are many orders of magnitude too stupid to handle my or anyone else's affairs.
 
AyashiKaibutsu said:
How about we reduce tax loopholes for the super rich, fix tax loopholes for corporations, increase income taxes slightly on everyone 150k+ moreso on 500k+ and pay down our goddamn debt to a reasonable level (doesn't need to be eliminated) for once when we have a chance.

That way the next crisis that hits us we'll actually have some room to move instead of it being a complete cluster fuck, but no we need to go all GWB and give away to the brink of the cliff so if anything goes wrong it's the disaster of the century.
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"increase income taxes slightly on everyone 150k+"

That is still middle class in many parts of the U.S.

I have already made just shy of that and I have already paid $41,000 of it in just taxes alone. We aren't in the poor house, but it doesn't take a moron to do the math on those taxes... and No, I won't be getting a big refund as I manage my withholding appropriately. I generally owe/or am due $500 at the end of every year.
 
WackyDan said:
"increase income taxes slightly on everyone 150k+"

That is still middle class in many parts of the U.S.

I have already made just shy of that and I have already paid $41,000 of it in just taxes alone. We aren't in the poor house, but it doesn't take a moron to do the math on those taxes... and No, I won't be getting a big refund as I manage my withholding appropriately. I generally owe/or am due $500 at the end of every year.
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Don't be such a crybaby. You should be more "charitable".

And who cares that $150k is different in Honolulu than it is in New Orleans? These cost of living considerations just complicate things.
 
Atreus21 said:
I don't know. I don't know much about the ins and outs of Medicare. But surely there are ways to fix it so it's not such a budget buster.
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The cost of Medicare is pretty closely related to health care costs in the US in general. It's among the most efficient health insurance payment systems we have. Usually the ideas for changing medicare that I see involve pushing more people onto private insurance which, paradoxically, would just make things more expensive.

The answer to controlling Medicare costs is really contained in controlling US health care costs as a whole. This is a big part of what the ACA is all about, incidentally.

What's so horrible about Paul Ryan's proposal?
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It's basically a fake budget that's intended to trick people. It specifies almost $5 trillion in tax cuts for the rich, but claims to be revenue neutral by closing 'loopholes' that he conveniently refuses to specify. Raising such enormous revenues through closing loopholes is effectively impossible. There's a reason why he never specified anything, in short, it's a lie.

It also presupposes wildly optimistic economic growth. His report relied on Heritage Foundation figures that at one point said growth would be so fabulous that unemployment would be all the way down to 2.8%. That number has literally never been achieved in the history of the United States. ie: bullshit. (such a low number would be undesirable anyway as it would likely lead to major inflation)

After this was called out they conveniently scrubbed that number away, made no acknowledgement of the issue, and hoped nobody would notice. ie: a lie.
 
A lot of people are seeing higher state taxes as well. There is also a higher capital gains tax. Then there are new taxes for Obama Care.

So I wonder how much tax money will be sent back when people file their taxes as tax returns. Then there are also Obama care Penalties. Look for a big fight about this. It could be enough to send people into bankruptcy.
 
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eskimospy said:
The cost of Medicare is pretty closely related to health care costs in the US in general. It's among the most efficient health insurance payment systems we have. Usually the ideas for changing medicare that I see involve pushing more people onto private insurance which, paradoxically, would just make things more expensive.
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Not sure I agree. I don't know anything about the numbers but I could see an argument that Medicare is itself to blame for the increase in healthcare costs. There's a correlation between the implementation of Medicare and the onset of big increases in health care costs.

I'm sure you've got a study or two to refute that, but I think the claim has some ground because it makes theoretical sense. Prices rise when you insulate consumers from the cost of paying those prices.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...befa46-7248-11e3-8b3f-b1666705ca3b_story.html

Anyway, I don't intend to get into a debate about medicare because I know very little about it beyond my novice understanding of economics.

The point is that revenue is at an all time high, and we're still a half trillion beyond it. At some point, the government needs to cut it's expenditures rather than (A) expecting taxpayers to fork out yet more, and/or (B) going to China for yet more loans.
 
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Atreus21 said:
Not sure I agree. I don't know anything about the numbers but I could see an argument that Medicare is itself to blame for the increase in healthcare costs. There's a correlation between the implementation of Medicare and the onset of big increases in health care costs.

I'm sure you've got a study or two to refute that, but I think the claim has some ground because it makes theoretical sense. Prices rise when you insulate consumers from the cost of paying those prices.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...befa46-7248-11e3-8b3f-b1666705ca3b_story.html
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Basically all studies I'm aware of not only dispute that, but actually show the exact opposite. Health care costs as a percentage of GDP are strongly related to how socialized your medical system is. The more socialized, the less is spent. (for developed nations at least)

EDIT: Also, your editorial does not say that Medicare leads to increased costs, it simply says that overall costs are strongly related to what Medicare pays. That's a very different thing.
 
eskimospy said:
Basically all studies I'm aware of not only dispute that, but actually show the exact opposite. Health care costs as a percentage of GDP are strongly related to how socialized your medical system is. The more socialized, the less is spent. (for developed nations at least)
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What does socialized mean?

Secondly, why then were healthcare costs so low before Medicare?

holly2.jpg
 
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