Tax Passage Clears House

[Genx87]

THe price for this will be extremely high.
Say goodbye to social security if you’re not yet retired or collecting it. Won't really matter anyway, since SS retirement age will be raised far beyond ones typical lifespan.
None of the middle class will be able to send their kids to college. Poverty and unemployment will explode in late 2011. Expect unemployment in the 35+ % range. Government will have little power to improve conditions, since at that point most all of the US economy will be outsourced and controlled by what happens in other countries. Jobs? lol .....

SS was dead already. People just didnt want to face reality.

 

[piasabird]

This whole deal is a giant pile of dung. We would be better off just letting all the tax cuts expire.

 

[sactoking]

save it, taking it out of circulation and eliminating that velocity?

Actually, unless they save it by putting it under their mattress saving increases velocity (generally). Saving is typified by a bank account. Due to the reserve system $1 in savings (bank reserves) can generate $5-10 in loans. Since velocity is a measure of the number of times a particular dollar changes hands, and money "creation" through reserves amplifies transacting, velocity increases.

Now, due to increased gov't regulation banks may be reticent to lend, which would dampen the velocity effect of saving but that isn't the "rich" taking it out of circulation.

 

[soulcougher73]

You mean, as opposed to a middle class person who... goes to wal-mart and buys a chinese made product from a japanese company sold by a minimum wage employee? It's exactly the same you dimwit, the rich, poor and middle class all spend money on foreign goods because very little is manufactured in this country anymore. Thanks unions!

You could thank the stock market as well. Without the stock market investors would not demand more profit at all cost, thus forcing the company to move production etc overseas. I still blame the stock market for all the US's problems. All it does is breed greed/profit at any cost to the country or its fellow citizens.

 

[Trianon]

Actually the recession has sparked people to eliminate credit card debt and increase savings to prepare for job loss. It's the primary reason we haven't crawled out of it yet, people are holding onto their money weathering the Obama storm. Not spending it.

All in all this tax bill will give some much needed economic improvements almost immediately. Go republicans! Stop obama's economic nightmare!

Well, if it goes anything like it went in Ireland, national debt will be converted to every citizens's debt by demand of IMF, so it doesn't matter if you have credit card debt or not, they will take all your pension/retirement funds to backstop this deal... No wonder Irish are rioting.

 

[theeedude]

Cool, getting at least $2K (maximum for single person) from SS cut and keep low cap gains and dividend taxes. Not that I needed it, but hey, who's counting. Still going to vote for politicians who defend Social Security though, gonna keep my cake and eat it too

 

[Jhhnn]

Actually the recession has sparked people to eliminate credit card debt and increase savings to prepare for job loss. It's the primary reason we haven't crawled out of it yet, people are holding onto their money weathering the Obama storm. Not spending it.

All in all this tax bill will give some much needed economic improvements almost immediately. Go republicans! Stop obama's economic nightmare!

It's truly unfortunate that you seem to lack the ability to think straight, and to face up to the reality of how this economic mess was created. You are quite blinded by greed and partisan zealotry.

It's not Obama's debacle at all, but rather that of the Republicans. Their policies resulted in an overheated economy based on the over extension of credit. That's how all recessions are created, large and small.

Obama inherited Tarp and an unemployment rate of nearly 10%. He inherited the Bush taxcuts, Iraq and Afghanistan. He inherited a financial disaster already under way before he ever took office, made possible by a complete lack of concern by his predecessor, GWB & Co.

Even when he caves completely to repub extortion, you claim it's all his fault. Repubs got everything they wanted and more. Wrt the issue at hand, Obama did more for them than McCain could have accomplished had he been president.

As this unfolds, America's wealthiest will need to come up with new excuses. The "uncertainty" you've touted wrt taxes is gone. The same tax structure will remain in place for the next 2 years as we've had since 2003. It didn't create any jobs along the way, and it won't create more now. It'll actually discourage re-investment in existing businesses and facilitate even more offshoring.

I'm not trying to convince you of anything because it's obvious that you believe what you believe because you want to do so, independent of any factual information offered. I point out these things simply because lies, left unchallenged, are often taken to be the truth. I realize that you don't, can't, refuse to understand that you are promulgating lies, because you actually believe them yourself.

 

[matt0611]

Cool, getting at least $2K (maximum for single person) from SS cut and keep low cap gains and dividend taxes. Not that I needed it, but hey, who's counting. Still going to vote for politicians who defend Social Security though, gonna keep my cake and eat it too

If you don't need it thats excessive wealth and it should be taken by the state
Do your part and give it back to the government!

 

[Kwatt]

Someone please tell me I am misunderstanding what this means.

I thought that S.S. tax was a matching tax. That the employer matches what the employee pays in.

Does this mean that the contributions will be a total of 4% less? And the employer just got a ~2000 USD tax break per employee?



.

 

[matt0611]

Someone please tell me I am misunderstanding what this means.

I thought that S.S. tax was a matching tax. That the employer matches what the employee pays in.

Does this mean that the contributions will be a total of 4% less? And the employer just got a ~2000 USD tax break per employee?

.

I think its for the "employee side" only.

 

[LegendKiller]

Actually, unless they save it by putting it under their mattress saving increases velocity (generally). Saving is typified by a bank account. Due to the reserve system $1 in savings (bank reserves) can generate $5-10 in loans. Since velocity is a measure of the number of times a particular dollar changes hands, and money "creation" through reserves amplifies transacting, velocity increases.

Now, due to increased gov't regulation banks may be reticent to lend, which would dampen the velocity effect of saving but that isn't the "rich" taking it out of circulation.

Who said they were going to put it into a savings account? Perhaps they buy real estate, then what?

 

[LegendKiller]

At which point you will get someone who is an enthusiastic trickle down person instead. I've never understood the position of 'I'm voting against this guy because he sometimes does things I don't like' so that he is replaced by someone who gleefully endorses all those same positions and more.

You're right, I should keep voting for a guy who reversed his platform position.

Thanks.

 

[lothar]

At which point you will get someone who is an enthusiastic trickle down person instead. I've never understood the position of 'I'm voting against this guy because he sometimes does things I don't like' so that he is replaced by someone who gleefully endorses all those same positions and more.

You are one of those people who automatically votes for all Democratic incumbents in a primary challenge?

 

[HendrixFan]

At which point you will get someone who is an enthusiastic trickle down person instead. I've never understood the position of 'I'm voting against this guy because he sometimes does things I don't like' so that he is replaced by someone who gleefully endorses all those same positions and more.

At this point Palin couldn't do any worse than Obama.

 

[Craig234]

At this point Palin couldn't do any worse than Obama.

LOL. That's an insane comment. Unfortunately, when enough people say something insane, it's hard for them to understand it's insane.

 

[Craig234]

You are one of those people who automatically votes for all Democratic incumbents in a primary challenge?

Tell me why that's wrong in light of all Senate Republicans voting to hold all government legislation hostage for getting the top 2% more tax cuts, for example.

When electing a Republican to the House is a vote to give control of the House to the Republican party - a disaster, compared to the best House in decades last term.

I'm not saying some Democrats aren't very bad, but party matters more than your ideology might like to admit.

 

[CPA]

Someone please tell me I am misunderstanding what this means.

I thought that S.S. tax was a matching tax. That the employer matches what the employee pays in.

Does this mean that the contributions will be a total of 4% less? And the employer just got a ~2000 USD tax break per employee?



.

Employee side only, the ER rate remains the same.

 

[fskimospy]

You are one of those people who automatically votes for all Democratic incumbents in a primary challenge?

No. I'm not aware of any such people existing either.

 

[fskimospy]

You're right, I should keep voting for a guy who reversed his platform position.

Thanks.

Your choice in 2012 is going to be between Obama and someone who you almost certainly disagree with far, far more. I never said it was a good choice, but the choice is still pretty clear.

 

[HendrixFan]

LOL. That's an insane comment. Unfortunately, when enough people say something insane, it's hard for them to understand it's insane.

He has completely failed at getting us out of the expensive wars, as he said he would do, he has completely abandoned his stance on transparency, he is a corporate puppet, his health care bill was neutered and the public is pushing towards conservatism since he is dropping the ball. At least a democratic congress going against a republican president would grow some balls and be obstructionist.

 

[lothar]

Tell me why that's wrong in light of all Senate Republicans voting to hold all government legislation hostage for getting the top 2% more tax cuts, for example.

When electing a Republican to the House is a vote to give control of the House to the Republican party - a disaster, compared to the best House in decades last term.

I'm not saying some Democrats aren't very bad, but party matters more than your ideology might like to admit.

You tell me why that's correct.
Why should one vote for the democrat which is now being challenged by a more progressive/liberal democrat in a primary?
If someone more liberal/progressive than the current member comes along in your state Democratic primary challenge, you would vote for the old guard even though you agree with the position of the challenger and hated the fact that the old guard voted for/against certain bills that you hate/like?

This is a Democratic primary we're talking about, not the general election, right?
"A vote for a more progressive/liberal Democrat in a Democratic primary is a vote for the Republicans in the general election"
Is this your view? Unless you're a Democrat who lives in a red state(I realize there are many that do), I find that view to be ridiculous.

 

[SKORPI0]

Priceless look of resignation after signing the bill. The masters controlling the "puppet president". Wow, 2 years and nothings changed. :\

 

[fskimospy]

He has completely failed at getting us out of the expensive wars, as he said he would do, he has completely abandoned his stance on transparency, he is a corporate puppet, his health care bill was neutered and the public is pushing towards conservatism since he is dropping the ball. At least a democratic congress going against a republican president would grow some balls and be obstructionist.

Really guys? Really?

Number of US troops in Iraq in January 2009: 140,000
Number of US troops in Iraq currently: 48,000

He never promised to get us out of Afghanistan, in fact he explicitly promised to involve us further in Afghanistan.

You might not think the health care bill was all it could have been, but I would like you to describe what you think the state of health care, financial regulation, regulatory agencies in general, etc. would have been with a Republican as president instead of Obama. It's not all perfect (by any stretch of the imagination... drug companies WTF), but he has accomplished more in his first two years than any president in our lifetimes.

You can cut off your nose to spite your face if you want, but you'll be awfully sorry afterwards. It reminds me of: "Whatever, Gore and Bush aren't any different than one another, who cares if Bush gets elected!?" How did that turn out?

 

[Craig234]

You tell me why that's correct.
Why should one vote for the democrat which is now being challenged by a more progressive/liberal democrat in a primary?
If someone more liberal/progressive than the current member comes along in your state Democratic primary challenge, you would vote for the old guard even though you agree with the position of the challenger and hated the fact that the old guard voted for/against certain bills that you hate/like?

This is a Democratic primary we're talking about, not the general election, right?
"A vote for a more progressive/liberal Democrat in a Democratic primary is a vote for the Republicans in the general election"
Is this your view? Unless you're a Democrat who lives in a red state(I realize there are many that do), I find that view to be ridiculous.

I misunderstood then - I'm all for voting for more progressive candidates in the primary.

My comment was about voting for the Democrat in the general.

This isn't quite as non-controversial as it sounds, if the more conservative candidate is viewed as having a better chance in the general.

And I can see a case for doing that to keep the seat Democratic if it's a very clear case, depending on the candidates.

 

[rcpratt]

I'm all for this. I'll never collect SS anyways, so the less I have to pay into it, the better. Too bad they didn't scrap the whole system.

Already increased my 401k contribution by 2% to compensate. Not that I was counting on SS, but might as well save it.