Tape Backup choices...

[MIDIman]

I'm just now researching on tape drives and figured I'd post a quick thread and start discussion.

We have a server that can hold nearly 2 terabytes of storage. We're looking into a mass backup solution, probably tape. We currently only need to backup ~650gigs of data, do weekly backups that increment in, oh I don't know, 25-50 gigs per week (100-200gigs a month).

What would be a good solution for this - if anything a specific technology that I can focus in on? I just read an article for instance that said anything DDS is pretty much old news.

I'm also interested in interfaces other than SCSI. Exabytes for instance offers firewire devices - any downside to this? Its attractive because our server does not have SCSI, and it would be super cheap to throw in a $20 firewire card.


The nice thing is that cash is not entirely and issue, but to be honest, neither is speed necessarily, so I don't see us really needing super high-end solutions.

Suggestions are welcome. Anyone?

 

[Carbonadium4]

Whats your price range ?

I'm using a sdlt 320, 160/320.. I mean I only got 200 gig total, including 4 mail servers and about 30-40 gb changs daily + another 30 for a full sql backup.

There are higher sdlts now.. I think 320/640.

I paid 15k for a dual SDLT, 3U, 20 cart magazine with barcode. Also have a external single SDLT at a DR site. (~3500)

 

[Markfw]

I use DLT7000 at home (native 35 gig) that I get about 40 gig per tape out of, and runs at 20 gig/hour (SCSI2 I think). This is relatively cheap $350 used+ SCSI card + tapes, but I think you need something like SDLT or LTO.

 

[Hottie]

Sony AIT-2 drive, reasons
1) not too expensive
2) 50gb/130gb
3) alot smaller than LTO or DLT
4) roadmap to at least AIT-6, all backward compatible
5) 6mb/s
6) come in SCSI int/ext, IDE int and USB/FIREWIRE ext.
7) int drive fit into single 5.25" bay.

 

[Josephus]

Take a look at the new Iomega Rev drives.... If price is not that big an issue, these babies look sweet and as for future growth.. Iomega has plans into the distant future, currently 35/90 is the only option...

The New IOmega Rev

 

[RickH]

Just say no--to Iomega.. People had major problems with their Jaz and Zip drives. NO NO NO.

 

[Josephus]

Originally posted by: RickH
Just say no--to Iomega.. People had major problems with their Jaz and Zip drives. NO NO NO.

OK... don't take a look then :roll:

 

[MIDIman]

Thanks for all the feedback! I'm learning alot today...

Anyone have any comments about the Exabyte drives? How do they compare? They use a different method for backing up (packet writing).

$1300 for the external firewire drive + 80/160gb tapes @ ~$80 each. For my current 650gb of data, that's at most 9 tapes right off the bat - 9 x 80gb @ $80 each ($720) = $2000 with the drive giving me 720/1440gigs of backup.
Their roadmap shows backward compatibility with future media that will double in size each time.
Reviews show ~1-1/2 hours for 80gb backup.

1) Big question - how exactly does the compression work? I've read that it "depends on the types of files being stored." In our case, these all files be at least 1gig to 5gigs in size. Is there any way to estimate how much data I will get out of an 80/160gb tape?

2) How smart generally is backup software? i.e. if I'm backing up files this large will the software autmatically split a single file onto two tapes?

3) Also concerning software - Say I have four tapes of data backed up. If a specific file on the first tape is changed, which I'm assuming the software will look for and understand that it needs to be backed up again, does the original tape have to be re-inserted and overwritten or does it create new copies on later tapes?

 

[Kilrsat]

We have a Dell PowerVault 132T and a Dell PowerVault 128T.

The 132T is an LTO2 library with dual drives and the 128T is an LTO library with a single drive.

The 132T is currently responsible for backing up 850GB each night, while the 128T was used for up to 400GB per night, although now it is more of a backup for the backup.

We were seeing speeds of ~500MB/min with the 128T, where the 132T backs up ~1800MB/min.

I'd really recommend having some kind of tape library for your mass backups, the convienence factor is very large. If I need to restore something from any backup in the last couple of weeks its just a click of the mouse away and its fetched from tape.

Beyond that we take one backup set per month out of the library for long term storage. This is the same backup hardware we plan to use (although with slightly tweaked backup jobs) when we expand our online storage by another 2TB by the end of the month. This expansion should bring us up to nearly 6TB online. We really couldn't be happier than with the 132T, and while you may not need the capacity provided by an LTO2 library, an LTO library may fit your situation perfectly.

 

[Kilrsat]

Originally posted by: MIDIman
Thanks for all the feedback! I'm learning alot today...

Anyone have any comments about the Exabyte drives? How do they compare? They use a different method for backing up (packet writing).

$1300 for the external firewire drive + 80/160gb tapes @ ~$80 each. For my current 650gb of data, that's at most 9 tapes right off the bat - 9 x 80gb @ $80 each ($720) = $2000 with the drive giving me 720/1440gigs of backup.
Their roadmap shows backward compatibility with future media that will double in size each time.
Reviews show ~1-1/2 hours for 80gb backup.

1) Big question - how exactly does the compression work? I've read that it "depends on the types of files being stored." In our case, these all files be at least 1gig to 5gigs in size. Is there any way to estimate how much data I will get out of an 80/160gb tape?

2) How smart generally is backup software? i.e. if I'm backing up files this large will the software autmatically split a single file onto two tapes?

3) Also concerning software - Say I have four tapes of data backed up. If a specific file on the first tape is changed, which I'm assuming the software will look for and understand that it needs to be backed up again, does the original tape have to be re-inserted and overwritten or does it create new copies on later tapes?

1) Compression is variable Think of it like zip compression done in hardware, some files (like text documents) compress nicely while things like jpg images don't.

2) Really depends on the software, we use Veritas BackUp Exec and it will allow files to span tapes

3) Depends on your overwrite/append rules for the tapes. Most of the software will allow you to specify rules that it won't overwrite data unless its been a certain number of days since you wrote it. This allows you to keep a decent backup history which is important. Since there will be times where someone wants the version of a file from 6 saves ago, and if you only have the most recent copy they're out of luck.

 

[MysticLlama]

Something to look at as far as libraries go...

The Quantum Superloader or the Compaq/HP rebranded version (can't remember the model)

I got one because the base model holds 8 tapes and a 40/80GB drive. The cool thing is that I can add another 8 tape magazine later, and upgrade the drive to a 110/220, add barcode scanning, etc. later as it grows.

It's a way to get into a library that will give you some space to grow without the immediate outlay that some of the bigger ones require.

Since you can configure it, you can probably find a place to give you a quote on a 40/80 with 2 magazines, or a single magazine with a 110/220, or whatever combo you're looking it.

If you're looking at 1.5 hours for an 80GB backup and you have 650ish to do, that will be a lot of changing tapes all over the place.

 

[Hottie]

Originally posted by: Kilrsat
We have a Dell PowerVault 132T and a Dell PowerVault 128T.

The 132T is an LTO2 library with dual drives and the 128T is an LTO library with a single drive.

Wondering what kind of connection you have on ur 132T?
1) SCSI to Server? What is ur spec on the server?
2) SAN FO?
3) 1000bit NIC?

 

[Kilrsat]

Originally posted by: Hottie

Originally posted by: Kilrsat
We have a Dell PowerVault 132T and a Dell PowerVault 128T.

The 132T is an LTO2 library with dual drives and the 128T is an LTO library with a single drive.

Wondering what kind of connection you have on ur 132T?
1) SCSI to Server? What is ur spec on the server?
2) SAN FO?
3) 1000bit NIC?

Its #2, the 132T is directly connected to our SAN.

Server spec right now is 2x1.4Ghz Xeons with 4GB of ram runnings Windows Server 2000.

In two weeks or so that'll become 2x2.2Ghz Opterons with 4GB of ram. Mega-donuts

 

[Hottie]

Originally posted by: Kilrsat

Originally posted by: Hottie

Originally posted by: Kilrsat
We have a Dell PowerVault 132T and a Dell PowerVault 128T.

The 132T is an LTO2 library with dual drives and the 128T is an LTO library with a single drive.

Wondering what kind of connection you have on ur 132T?
1) SCSI to Server? What is ur spec on the server?
2) SAN FO?
3) 1000bit NIC?

Its #2, the 132T is directly connected to our SAN.

Server spec right now is 2x1.4Ghz Xeons with 4GB of ram runnings Windows Server 2000.

In two weeks or so that'll become 2x2.2Ghz Opterons with 4GB of ram. Mega-donuts

I bet you will see a much faster tranfer rate w/ dual 2.2ghz. I remember you can add a "load balancing board"(don't remember exactly the name) to you Win Server to by pass all the IP crap to make the tranfer rate faster. Maybe you can look it to it since u already spend a fortune on it.

 

[Kilrsat]

Originally posted by: Hottie

Originally posted by: Kilrsat

Originally posted by: Hottie

Originally posted by: Kilrsat
We have a Dell PowerVault 132T and a Dell PowerVault 128T.

The 132T is an LTO2 library with dual drives and the 128T is an LTO library with a single drive.

Wondering what kind of connection you have on ur 132T?
1) SCSI to Server? What is ur spec on the server?
2) SAN FO?
3) 1000bit NIC?

Its #2, the 132T is directly connected to our SAN.

Server spec right now is 2x1.4Ghz Xeons with 4GB of ram runnings Windows Server 2000.

In two weeks or so that'll become 2x2.2Ghz Opterons with 4GB of ram. Mega-donuts

I bet you will see a much faster tranfer rate w/ dual 2.2ghz. I remember you can add a "load balancing board"(don't remember exactly the name) to you Win Server to by pass all the IP crap to make the tranfer rate faster. Maybe you can look it to it since u already spend a fortune on it.

Its at the "fast enough" point, so we've just been letting it run. With each drive chugging 1800MB/min its doing a total of ~60MB/s, so its still fitting in our backup window.

A new server means playtime, so lots of testing and tweaking coming up to see just how far we can push it.

 

[MIDIman]

bump - still curious about opinions on Exabytes' firewire solutions, but thanks to all for the wonderful real-world info.

 

[Hottie]

^^Exabytes have nothing wrong, they're around for many yr and they not going anytime soon. Their problem is even their drive is relatively cheap, their tape is expensive and is not widely available. I am not sure which exabyte ur talk about, if it is VXA-1, the price diff between that to AIT-2 is not alot. For me I am go AIT, but again there is nothing wrong w/ VXA-1. Exabytes make good product.

 

[AlphaDraconis]

I too am interested in Exabyte, specifically the VXA-2 PacketLoader 1x10 1U. I have never done backups before, this is all new to me. Anyone have a link to good primers on tape backup for Windows 2003 Server?