Tallmadge HS student hazes a teammate with a straw...

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: Mo0o
Seems overkill. Clearly his actions are really different from traditional rape cases. He's probably unlikely to repeat his actions once he becomes an adult. All this does is ruin him for life.

Actions are driven by motivation. Contrary to popular ignorant-masses opinion, rape is not motivated by sexual passion. Rape is about power --the same thing driving the article's offender to commit the crime.

Hence the reason for sex offender status.

 

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: Amused
He needed to be punished, but sex offender status for life? WAY overkill.

i agree. his life hasnt even begun and he is going to be punished for a bad hazing prank at 17. he should be punished no doupt about that but not for life.


I know if the victim was my son i would be PISSED beyond belief and would want justice to fit the crime. the punishment this kid got does not fit the crime.

for me 14 days in county lock up, 120 hours community service and a letter to the victim would be plenty to send a message.

Suppose it was your daughter, and a beer bottle instead of a straw. What then? "I'm sorry, it was just a prank" "ha ha ha, that's okay. Kids will be kids. I'm going to ask the prosecutor to be lenient and only give you 14 days."

 

[LS21]

WHAT WHAT IN THE BUTT??!?!?!?

 

[Babbles]

Originally posted by: DrPizza

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: Amused
He needed to be punished, but sex offender status for life? WAY overkill.

i agree. his life hasnt even begun and he is going to be punished for a bad hazing prank at 17. he should be punished no doupt about that but not for life.


I know if the victim was my son i would be PISSED beyond belief and would want justice to fit the crime. the punishment this kid got does not fit the crime.

for me 14 days in county lock up, 120 hours community service and a letter to the victim would be plenty to send a message.

Suppose it was your daughter, and a beer bottle instead of a straw. What then? "I'm sorry, it was just a prank" "ha ha ha, that's okay. Kids will be kids. I'm going to ask the prosecutor to be lenient and only give you 14 days."

Your example is completely inappropriate and irrelevant. A worthless analogy.

Facts matter.

Different instances require different punishments. The court system is not black and white but shades of grey.

 

[LS21]

Originally posted by: dennilfloss
Rape is typically about power, not sex. What they did might well qualify as rape under the law.

Truth

While on the surface it seems tier-3 is serious. "for life"?!?!?. how about a juvenile at 15 getting something forced up his ass. im sure he'll remember THAT for life

 

[GagHalfrunt]

Originally posted by: Babbles

Also on the above site, Tier 3 offenses are:
Rape 2907.02
Sexual Battery 2907.03
Aggravated Murder with Sexual Motivation 2903.01
Murder with Sexual Motivation 2903.02
Unlawful Death or Termination of Pregnancy As A Result of Committing or Attempting to Commit a Felony with Sexual Motivation 2903.04
Kidnapping of Minor to Engage in Sexual Activity 2905.01(A)(4)
Kidnapping of Minor, Not By Parent 2905.01(B)
Gross Sexual Imposition 2907.05 (A)(4) (Under 13)*
Felonious Assault with Sexual Motivation 2903.11**
Any Sexual Offense that occurs after the offender has been classified as a Tier II sex offender

* Federal offense is victim under 16
** comparable to Attempted Sexual Abuse 18 USCS 2242
emphasis mine

Clearly the kid deseves a punishment, but to be punished in the same way that a serial rapist and murder would be?

Then take it up with your congressman to change the laws, but under all existing definitions of sexual battery this punk is guilty. This is not a crime of passion, it's not an accident. This was a premeditated rape. Why does the criminal deserve any sort of special consideration? It was violent and it was done ON PURPOSE.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

Originally posted by: DrPizza

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: Amused
He needed to be punished, but sex offender status for life? WAY overkill.

i agree. his life hasnt even begun and he is going to be punished for a bad hazing prank at 17. he should be punished no doupt about that but not for life.


I know if the victim was my son i would be PISSED beyond belief and would want justice to fit the crime. the punishment this kid got does not fit the crime.

for me 14 days in county lock up, 120 hours community service and a letter to the victim would be plenty to send a message.

Suppose it was your daughter, and a beer bottle instead of a straw. What then? "I'm sorry, it was just a prank" "ha ha ha, that's okay. Kids will be kids. I'm going to ask the prosecutor to be lenient and only give you 14 days."

Yes, and suppose after all that they used a lawnmower to take off one of her arms. And they were all wearing clown masks at the time. Also, one of them was an albino midget with 6 fingers on one hand. And it all happened in a sauna with the distinct odor of urine, as though someone had pissed on the rocks. Oh, and it's happening in Saudi Arabia, so they won't be punished, but your daughter will be stoned to death.

What then hot shot?

You can't arbitrarily change the facts of a case and claim it's the same thing.

 

[destrekor]

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: destrekor

Originally posted by: So

Originally posted by: destrekor
Ugh. The law gets so out of control when it comes to applying a Sex Offender designation.

It was a prank, dear lord. Not something that should ruin the life of someone who merely played a somewhat cruel prank on someone.

Everyone here that says otherwise must be the type that got pranked on their whole lives, sometimes in a way somewhat demeaning. The stereotypical nerds who once they get any kind of power let it get to their heads and banish anyone for anything remotely 'wrong'.

The kinds of things that I did as a child, participated in, or had pulled on me, could easily have caused some major grief in a courtroom if anyone was a bitch about it. Fun and games. Yes, a straw up the ass is over the line, but does not mean the lives of people needs to get ruined for it. Give him some tough justice, such as maybe a short stint in juvie, some community service and probation. Not an unjust label for life.

Did you anally violate someone? That kid deserves to be labeled as a sex offender. Maybe not for life, but for a while.

lol no but I was that age most likely much more recently than most on this forum. The ones my age crying RAPE are likely the ones picked on all the time. The ones older just aren't used to the changing of generations. It shouldn't be much different, but as society becomes softer, the children are seeking an escape, and that is on or with each other.

This case should just make it easier to showcase just how much softer society is becoming. Look at how much more common filing suits for the most retarded reasons are. Something isn't written as a warning label means that company will eventually be sued for it. It's possible to even just SAY things that get you into far greater trouble these days.

What happened to the days when you say or do something socially unacceptable, and you simply get your ass beat and/or thrown in jail for some period of time.
My generation grew up in such a weak society it's depressing. I sometimes wish I was beat in school, ADD wouldn't exist if I became afraid of a lashing.

So, what you're saying is that rape was okay when you were a kid, so long as mob justice was handed out afterward?

totally putting words into my mouth. The way I explained it... I feel I have no other way to do so, so I'm not really adding anything more to the discussion else I'll basically repeat everything.
But to sum it up, it all comes down to my belief that we're in the processing of removing the true point of the sex offender designation.

The side conversation with Kadarin below covers that.

Originally posted by: Kadarin

Originally posted by: destrekor
Ugh. The law gets so out of control when it comes to applying a Sex Offender designation.

Whether or not it's appropriate for this particular incident, your comment actually has merit. When you have teenagers requiring to register as sex offenders because they sent naked pictures of themselves to others via cellphone and whatnot, you dilute the whole point of even having a sex offender list. It will get to the point where the list is useless because there's no way to tell from it whether the person is a real danger, or if they just did something silly and harmless when they were younger...

precisely my point.

When you have people like this registered as a Tier 3 Sex Offender, and if this kind of trend continues, people are going to start doing one of two things: when they see the local bulletins, either will unfairly treat all the individuals as terrible human beings, or begin to believe that most are the opposite of dangerous and then the few dangerous ones left on the list may cause problems.

Either way, acts like this will dilute the sex offender registry.
Reserve the life-long ones for truly dangerous individuals, and give the ones that commit non-dangerous acts, especially as minors (unless again truly dangerous), designations that don't last a lifetime.

 

[Nik]

Originally posted by: jman19
Or maybe you can stop throwing the term around all the time? It makes you look like a fool.

Anyone who thinks I look like a fool is retarded. 😉

 

[mcmilljb]

Everyone who voted no needs a straw up their ass then they would understand it's rape. He's not sorry for what he did. He's sorry the victim told his parents and the cops. You know the scumbag doesn't feel sorry for what he did. He feels sorry for himself. He thinks he's a victim of the law. It shouldn't matter if it was same gender or even if it was as a joke. Had it been a female, you wouldn't give a damn then if it was hazing. If you don't rape people, and you don't end up a TIER 3 sex offender.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: Zebo
Mr. Underwood, heh, sounds off to say the least. Hopefully he learns his lesson and lucky it happened as a minor, where his record will be expunged at 18. In other words no big deal as a temporary lesson. Maybe got off lightly?

The act itselff may be expunged but he will still have to register as a sex offender for the rest of his life!!

 

[mcmilljb]

Originally posted by: Kadarin

Originally posted by: destrekor
Ugh. The law gets so out of control when it comes to applying a Sex Offender designation.

Whether or not it's appropriate for this particular incident, your comment actually has merit. When you have teenagers requiring to register as sex offenders because they sent naked pictures of themselves to others via cellphone and whatnot, you dilute the whole point of even having a sex offender list. It will get to the point where the list is useless because there's no way to tell from it whether the person is a real danger, or if they just did something silly and harmless when they were younger...

The list has always been useless. The people who truly belong on a list shouldn't be free in the first place. If you honestly think someone on that list is a danger to society and is likely to reoffend, their ass should be jail! Do not let them be free to commit another crime, but that is not the case. If they're not likely to reoffend, why do you need them on a list? Just to make people feel like they're handling the problem. But really, it's just a waste of money and gives people unjustified fear. People can avoid the list and give false information, and it happens everyday. It's just like the drug laws that have done nothing to stop the use of illegal drugs or even legal drugs, just another waste of taxpayer money because people don't want to address the problem rationally.

 

[Sedition]

Originally posted by: Don Vito Corleone

Originally posted by: Nik

Stupid and childish is lighting a bag of poop on fire on someone's porch. Stupid and childish is putting a kick-me sign on someone's back. Holding someone down, removing clothing, and sodomizing them with a straw? For real? You think that's simply "stupid and childish"?

Your first example is arguably more dangerous than what happened in this case.

I am not trying to defend this guy's conduct, just trying to inject a note of sanity into this discussion. The idea of branding this guy as a rapist for life just seems to me to waste whatever positive potential he may have, while doing exactly zero for the safety of the public.

We are not branding him a rapist; he is a rapist... we are just calling a spade, a spade.

You saying it is wrong to label him a rapists means that you obvious believe it isn't rape. You are therefore defending his actions.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: Don Vito Corleone

Originally posted by: Nik

Stupid and childish is lighting a bag of poop on fire on someone's porch. Stupid and childish is putting a kick-me sign on someone's back. Holding someone down, removing clothing, and sodomizing them with a straw? For real? You think that's simply "stupid and childish"?

Your first example is arguably more dangerous than what happened in this case.

I am not trying to defend this guy's conduct, just trying to inject a note of sanity into this discussion. The idea of branding this guy as a rapist for life just seems to me to waste whatever positive potential he may have, while doing exactly zero for the safety of the public.

why can't we brand him a rapist for life? he raped the kid. there is no takeing that back.

he is a rapist and will be for life. that is fact.

 

[Sedition]

Originally posted by: JEDI

Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus

A 17-year-old former Tallmadge High School football player was placed on probation today for one year and ordered to undergo psychological counseling for an attack on a younger teammate last summer at the school.

Robert Underwood, who was found guilty last month of juvenile delinquency charges of rape and hazing in connection with the incident, turned to face the 16-year-old victim and his family in court and tearfully read a written letter of apology.

''It was never my intention to cause you harm in any way. I thought that what I was doing was nothing more than a silly prank to get people to laugh. I realize now the severity of what I did, and it was nothing to laugh about,'' Underwood said.

The victim, who was 15 at the time of the attack, testified in Summit County Juvenile Court last month that he was accosted by several teammates last August after football practice. He said he was forced to the ground, his pants were pulled down and he was jabbed repeatedly in the buttocks with a plastic drinking straw.

Special prosecutor Dan Riedl of the Ohio Attorney General's Office, who was appointed to handle the case, told Juvenile Judge Linda Tucci Teodosio before sentencing that Underwood ''picked up that straw and pushed it multiple times into the victim's rectum . . .'' ''That was an intentional act. It wasn't merely something that got out of hand. It was an intent to cause a real violation . . . of another person,'' Riedl said.

As part of Underwood's sentence, Teodosio ordered the teen to be classified ? under mandated state guidelines for the offense of rape ? as a Tier 3 sexual offender.

It is the most serious sex offender classification under Ohio law, and it will require Underwood to register his address with the sheriff's office every 90 days for life.

Underwood also was ordered to undergo an alcohol assessment and treatment program, to write a letter of apology and make amends to the victim and his family and to perform 40 hours of community service.

If he violates any of those terms of probation, then he could be sentenced to incarceration in a Department of Youth Services facility for a period of at least one year up to his 21st birthday, Teodosio said.

Riedl, the special prosecutor, asked the judge to prohibit Underwood from returning to Tallmadge High as another part of his sentence, but Teodosio declined the request, saying she would leave that decision to school officials.

Underwood has not attended classes at the school since the incident, the judge noted.

The teen's mother and father accompanied him to court, and Teodosio praised them in her concluding remarks, saying ''it took a lot of courage to take this case to this level.''

''If more people would step forward and be brave enough to come into court to speak about these kinds of things, then hopefully . . . they will not occur to other young men and women'' the judge said.

Underwood's mother, sobbing as she addressed the court, called the incident ''horseplay'' and said the same type of thing has been going on on the team ''for generations.''

She declined further comment outside of court.

Special prosecutors were brought in from Columbus because the son of an assistant county prosecutor also is a Tallmadge football player.

http://www.ohio.com/news/break_news/18342059.html

Should he be labeled a teir 3 sex offender for this?

edit: So what was the final straw in this case?

edit 2: Who wants to bet dNor was the one who received it?

if tier3 is highest, then no, he doesnt deserve it. he deserves a lower rating, maybe one that drops off his record in 10 yrs, like a dui.

what's tier1 and 2?

Because in 10 years he could be a football coach.

 

[LikeLinus]

So let me get this right. A lot of you people think it's ok to violate/rape someone as long as they are doing it for a laught, and not for pleasure?

Wow, just wow. Holding someone down and forcing something inside of another person against their own will is RAPE. It's not hazing, it's not a big joke and it's certainly not something that anyone should have done to them.

This should go on his record for life. You act like this is an isolated act, but how many of you have wanted to hold someone down and shove something in another guys ass? This goes way beyond hazing and it's obvious this boy has some problems if he's willing to basically rape another boy with an item. I know I'd never do anything like that and I think most moral good people would never do something like this.

 

[Nik]

Originally posted by: LikeLinus
how many of you have wanted to hold someone down and shove something in another guys ass?

I know a few on these forums who dream of that every night 😛

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: LikeLinus
how many of you have wanted to hold someone down and shove something in another guys ass?

I know a few on these forums who dream of that every night 😛

Make sure your door is unlocked this time please, having to pick the lock and juggle the chloroform bottle is kinda tricky.

 

[SlitheryDee]

Originally posted by: LikeLinus
So let me get this right. A lot of you people think it's ok to violate/rape someone as long as they are doing it for a laught, and not for pleasure?

Wow, just wow. Holding someone down and forcing something inside of another person against their own will is RAPE. It's not hazing, it's not a big joke and it's certainly not something that anyone should have done to them.

This should go on his record for life. You act like this is an isolated act, but how many of you have wanted to hold someone down and shove something in another guys ass? This goes way beyond hazing and it's obvious this boy has some problems if he's willing to basically rape another boy with an item. I know I'd never do anything like that and I think most moral good people would never do something like this.

This kind of thing never occurred to me, but I did a LOT of stuff when I was in my teens that I cringe to think about now. For some reason people expect 17-18 year olds to have a fully formed moral system when the truth is that they do not. I feel that those kids themselves will eventually look back on this event with disbelief.

"What the fuck was I thinking"? "Oh yeah, I wasn't".

What I'm saying is that it IS an isolated act. Of course any adult who did something like this should be punished to the greatest extent the law allows, but you have to account for the fact that most of us are godless little heathens at that age who must be put down repeatedly before the lessons stick. Then we become responsible adults. To punish someone for LIFE for something they did before they even finished setting up an acceptable system of morals is too extreme.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: SlitheryDee

Originally posted by: LikeLinus
So let me get this right. A lot of you people think it's ok to violate/rape someone as long as they are doing it for a laught, and not for pleasure?

Wow, just wow. Holding someone down and forcing something inside of another person against their own will is RAPE. It's not hazing, it's not a big joke and it's certainly not something that anyone should have done to them.

This should go on his record for life. You act like this is an isolated act, but how many of you have wanted to hold someone down and shove something in another guys ass? This goes way beyond hazing and it's obvious this boy has some problems if he's willing to basically rape another boy with an item. I know I'd never do anything like that and I think most moral good people would never do something like this.

This kind of thing never occurred to me, but I did a LOT of stuff when I was in my teens that I cringe to think about now. For some reason people expect 17-18 year olds to have a fully formed moral system when the truth is that they do not. I feel that those kids themselves will eventually look back on this event with disbelief.

"What the fuck was I thinking"? "Oh yeah, I wasn't".

What I'm saying is that it IS an isolated act. Of course any adult who did something like this should be punished to the greatest extent the law allows, but you have to account for the fact that most of us are godless little heathens at that age who must be put down repeatedly before the lessons stick. Then we become responsible adults. To punish someone for LIFE for something they did before they even finished setting up an acceptable system of morals is too extreme.

sure i did stupid stuff. BUT i NEVER held another person down. stripped off there clothing and then SHOVED stuff up there ASS!

hell the idea never even came up.

 

[TipsyMcStagger]

Holding someone down and sticking a straw up their ass is pretty far removed from harmless prank. He deserves tier 3 for that. Who knows what he could move on to do.

 

[HannibalX]

Someone should rape the mother and then tell her he was just playing around, it's no big deal.

 

[Nik]

Originally posted by: waggy
BUT i NEVER held another person down. stripped off there clothing and then SHOVED stuff up there ASS!

For some reason, when I read that, I heard Tourettes Guy (youtube) yelling it in my head and I lol'd

 

[HannibalX]

You tool bags using the "hazing" defense are fucking morons. That's like getting pulled over for speeding and then telling the cop, "It's ok, I was racing, you're allowed to drive over the speed limit when racing". The kid was held down by a bunch of fucking bullies and had an object shoved in his ass. That's rape you fucking twits. Trying to justify the act with calling it "hazing" is bullshit, and you fuckers know it.

 

[mcmilljb]

Originally posted by: SlitheryDee

Originally posted by: LikeLinus
So let me get this right. A lot of you people think it's ok to violate/rape someone as long as they are doing it for a laught, and not for pleasure?

Wow, just wow. Holding someone down and forcing something inside of another person against their own will is RAPE. It's not hazing, it's not a big joke and it's certainly not something that anyone should have done to them.

This should go on his record for life. You act like this is an isolated act, but how many of you have wanted to hold someone down and shove something in another guys ass? This goes way beyond hazing and it's obvious this boy has some problems if he's willing to basically rape another boy with an item. I know I'd never do anything like that and I think most moral good people would never do something like this.

This kind of thing never occurred to me, but I did a LOT of stuff when I was in my teens that I cringe to think about now. For some reason people expect 17-18 year olds to have a fully formed moral system when the truth is that they do not. I feel that those kids themselves will eventually look back on this event with disbelief.

"What the fuck was I thinking"? "Oh yeah, I wasn't".

What I'm saying is that it IS an isolated act. Of course any adult who did something like this should be punished to the greatest extent the law allows, but you have to account for the fact that most of us are godless little heathens at that age who must be put down repeatedly before the lessons stick. Then we become responsible adults. To punish someone for LIFE for something they did before they even finished setting up an acceptable system of morals is too extreme.

If the victim had been your child, I don't think you would feel that way. You would be angry and outraged at what that person did. You know it's not acceptable behavior, and he did too.

Besides, being on the list is the least of his worries. Being on the list doesn't prohibit him from any thing except where he lives and works and maybe an occassional search and seizure of property. But he can explain to his future employers why he's rapist, since they'll see it every time he applies for a job.