talking Linux waaaaaaa too far....

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xyyz

Diamond Member
Sep 3, 2000
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I know that this place is full of Linux zelots who will argue that anything you need to pay for sucks... but sometimes even you have to admit... Linux enthusiasts take things too far... this is a perfect example. This is off of the debian-sparc list.



<< Will debian work with my Sun Enterprise 4500 hardware? It has 8 processors,
16GB of RAM and 8ea D1000 StorEdge disk arrays. If debian will work, what
is the latest debian release (or kernel version) and how do I purchase it?

Thanks!! >>



I mean come on... sheesh... Solaris was MADE for these machines... what the hell is this guy thinking?

This is like taking out a... well you fill it in with your own example.
 
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TheOmegaCode

Platinum Member
Aug 7, 2001
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<< I know that this place is full of Linux zelots who will argue that anything you need to pay for sucks... but sometimes even you have to admit... Linux enthusiasts take things too far... this is a perfect example. This is off of the debian-sparc list.



<< Will debian work with my Sun Enterprise 4500 hardware? It has 8 processors,
16GB of RAM and 8ea D1000 StorEdge disk arrays. If debian will work, what
is the latest debian release (or kernel version) and how do I purchase it?

Thanks!! >>



I mean come on... sheesh... Solaris was MADE for these machines... what the hell is this guy thinking?

This is like taking out a... well you fill it in with your own example. >>


Actually, that is kinda amusing... To each his own though...
 
Nothinman

Nothinman

Elite Member
Sep 14, 2001
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With all the .com's going out of business you can get machines like that relatively cheap, I know a guy in australia getting 'big iron' machines every other week from them.
 
S

stirling

Member
Oct 29, 2001
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funny.
I'm not sure he's a linux zealot, though, judging from the "...how do I purchase it?"
 
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Priit

Golden Member
Nov 2, 2000
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Look at the bright side: at least he doesn't ask "will Windows ME run on it?"... ;)
 
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smp

Diamond Member
Dec 6, 2000
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Look at the bright side: at least he doesn't ask "will Windows ME run on it?"...

True :)

 
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n0cmonkey

Elite Member
Jun 10, 2001
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Solaris would definitely be a better choice in my opinion, but why not throw linux on there? He can help with development on big iron ultra sparc machines.
 
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FUBAR

Senior member
Oct 11, 1999
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Aren't there some issues with running linux on more than something like 4 cpu's or with memory over something like 4 gig? Never seen any single boxes that big so I can't remember which it was...

But seriously, he's actually crippling the machine since the 4500 has hot swappable boards and such and you won't get it to suspend the boards without the support that solaris gives. AFAIK there's no way to suspend the hardware so you can yank it.
 
Nothinman

Nothinman

Elite Member
Sep 14, 2001
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Aren't there some issues with running linux on more than something like 4 cpu's or with memory over something like 4 gig? Never seen any single boxes that big so I can't remember which it was...

Linux scales up to ~8 processors decently and has a hard limit of 32 (because an int is used for a bitmask for the CPUs), after that the locking isn't granular enough and it starts spinlocking in major subsystems a lot.

HIGHMEM problems are only on 32-bit arches, some drivers aren't done in a way that can work well with HIGHMEM boxes. The Linux UltraSparc kernel is 64-bit and the drivers are for very Sun-specific hardware so I doubt any would have problems with that much memory.

But seriously, he's actually crippling the machine since the 4500 has hot swappable boards and such and you won't get it to suspend the boards without the support that solaris gives. AFAIK there's no way to suspend the hardware so you can yank it.

Pretty sure it depends on the driver, I don't think you can power down an entire PCI bus yet though. I know there's hotswap CPU patches out there that havn't been merged yet though.

If I had the chance to get one for cheap (relatively of course) I'd take it and put Linux on it and 'donate' it to Debian just to help developement of Linux on sparc and high end boxes in general.
 
Nothinman

Nothinman

Elite Member
Sep 14, 2001
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personally, i hate solaris and would use linux anyway.

My limited experience with it was better than Tru64, hell you need licenses just to telnet to a Tru64 box.
 
X

xyyz

Diamond Member
Sep 3, 2000
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my solaris instructor... and those being the operative words here... stated that linux has huge problems with dealing with anything WELL that has more than 2 processors (or did he say 4?)... he said that while linux can handle the multiple processors it cannot do it too well yet because SMP support is still in its infancy.

solaris on the other hand, he says, was pretty much build for multiple processors and there's really no reason to go with anything else on a multiple processor Sparc system.

btw... seriously where can you get those machines cheap?
 
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vash

Platinum Member
Feb 13, 2001
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<< my solaris instructor... and those being the operative words here... stated that linux has huge problems with dealing with anything WELL that has more than 2 processors (or did he say 4?)... he said that while linux can handle the multiple processors it cannot do it too well yet because SMP support is still in its infancy.

solaris on the other hand, he says, was pretty much build for multiple processors and there's really no reason to go with anything else on a multiple processor Sparc system.

btw... seriously where can you get those machines cheap? >>

Your Solaris teacher is obviously biased and wants to tout the power of Solaris over Linux. Its common for all teachers. Linux, or FreeBSD, is well known for its SMP power and *BSD is probably more mature with it compared to Linux.

Want to get Solaris boxes cheap? One place: Ebay.

vash
 
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Sunner

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
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Actually Linux(well 2.4 kernels anyways) have better SMP performance than FreeBSD 4.x.
OpenBSD doesn't support SMP at all, not sure about NetBSD, but I dont think it does either.

FreeBSD 5.x and SMPng may very well change this, but OTOH Linux development is moving along as well, so thats a moot point.

And Solaris SMP performance is definately more scalable than Linux, trying to argue that is just stupid IMO.
 
Nothinman

Nothinman

Elite Member
Sep 14, 2001
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my solaris instructor... and those being the operative words here... stated that linux has huge problems with dealing with anything WELL that has more than 2 processors (or did he say 4?)... he said that while linux can handle the multiple processors it cannot do it too well yet because SMP support is still in its infancy.

I agree that he's biased. It's not as granular as Solaris, but there's only a few areas that need broken up yet. And Solaris performs like sh!t on single CPU boxes, which is something most Linux developers are trying to avoid.

btw... seriously where can you get those machines cheap?

Tech auctions, from failed .coms is the best. eBay isn't bad, but find an online Sun reseller, get a base price so you know what's a decent price for what you're thinking of bidding on.
 
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n0cmonkey

Elite Member
Jun 10, 2001
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OpenBSD has very basic support for SMP systems (i386), but its not even close to being something resembling a cheap knockoff of what I would consider stable ;)

According to a particular FreeBSD developer (dont remember the name or link right off) linux is about 1 year ahead of FreeBSD in the smp support side of things. If you want to interview let me know and Ill find it.

Solaris is definitely the most scalable of the OSes though.
 
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