Talk, More Talk, and Double Talk . . .

CaptnKirk

Lifer
Jul 25, 2002
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From the L.A. Times:

<DIV class=content>Gen. Tommy Franks appeared Thursday before the House Armed Services Committee with a large map showing the trouble spots in Iraq. He pointed to a small triangle and a few dots indicating where troops were coming under attack, with the vast rest of Iraq shaded safely green. A quick-witted Rep. Ellen O. Tauscher (D-Pleasanton) pointed out that the triangle and spots "represent 70% of the Iraqi population." And most of the green-colored area was unpopulated desert. Oh.

The murkiness surrounding the Bush administration's Iraq policy before and after the war continues. Traveling through Africa, President Bush has steadfastly rejected charges that the administration manipulated intelligence on Iraq as nothing more than critics attempting to "rewrite history." But it isn't the critics who are doing the rewriting. To justify a quick intervention, Bush asserted in his Jan. 28 State of the Union speech that Iraq had an active nuclear program and was seeking to buy uranium in the African state of Niger. If Iraq wasn't trying to buy uranium, then its nuclear program was merely theoretical.

Joseph C. Wilson IV, former ambassador to Gabon, was sent to Niger last year by the CIA to investigate the report that Iraq was trying to procure uranium. He returned and said it was bogus. His report was buried, a matter now under investigation by the CIA inspector general. Greg Thielmann, a former high-ranking official in the State Department's Bureau of Intelligence and Research, said Wednesday that the administration issued "inaccurate formulations" and "misleading summaries" about Iraq's weapons-of-mass-destruction programs. He described the approach as "We know the answers; give us the intelligence to support those answers."

Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld told Sen. Mark Pryor (D-Ark.) Wednesday that he had learned only "within recent days" that the report alleging uranium purchases was false. If true, that statement indicts the intelligence being sent to the highest security official in the land. If the administration turned a deliberate blind eye to the uranium falsehood, other evidence used in justification of the war will come under a darker cloud. These questions aren't about the past, as Bush argues, because they are intimately linked to the CIA's and Pentagon's intelligence assessments of postwar Iraq and their continuing real-world consequences.

By all accounts, the administration relied heavily on rosy scenarios peddled by exiles like Ahmad Chalabi, the head of the Iraqi National Congress. Now that American soldiers are being picked off by snipers and Iraqi resentment over foreign invaders is boiling over, the administration and the intelligence community should start trying to understand what happened and stop throwing sand in critics' eyes.</DIV>
 

Brie

Member
May 27, 2003
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Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
From the L.A. Times:
Gen. Tommy Franks appeared Thursday before the House Armed Services Committee with a large map showing the trouble spots in Iraq. He pointed to a small triangle and a few dots indicating where troops were coming under attack, with the vast rest of Iraq shaded safely green. A quick-witted Rep. Ellen O. Tauscher (D-Pleasanton) pointed out that the triangle and spots "represent 70% of the Iraqi population." And most of the green-colored area was unpopulated desert.

Yes yes she is very witty but I also think that she is an ass for making that remark. I believe that from a military point of view I would be much more difficult for us to keep control of the situation if indeed the resistance moved to that 'unpopulated desert' (hmm Vietnam anyone). Sounds to me like in the entire country of Iraq, we have narrowed down the problem spots to just a few. If this is really the case then it sounds like the military is doing a pretty good job.
 

CaptnKirk

Lifer
Jul 25, 2002
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Thats like pointing out that there are more airplanes in the oceans than there are submarines in the sky.
It was a bait and switch to cover that it's safe where people aren't but dangerous where people are.

 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
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It reminds me of the milk cow, sheep and corn ranch map of the part of the US that voted for Bush. Bush was favored by a huge area of nowhere whereas all the dynamic areas of the country went for Gore
 

Brie

Member
May 27, 2003
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Originally posted by: Moonbeam
It reminds me of the milk cow, sheep and corn ranch map of the part of the US that voted for Bush. Bush was favored by a huge area of nowhere whereas all the dynamic areas of the country went for Gore

"dynamic areas" like large cities? I would say that us ranchers arent exposed to the media to the degree that the large cities are.

CaptnKirk, Yes it is bait n switch, but im not taking about the people. It is the location of the resistance we need to be preoccupied with. Now we can focus nearly all of our efforts to these population centers as opposed to sending forces to seek out the resistance hiding in the desert. Population is irrelevent in this discussion. In terms of area, out of the entire country of Iraq it sounds like we only need to focus on a few spots (area wise).
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
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Exposure is doubtlessly, then, inversely proportional to gullibility, naturally with a few exceptions.
 

Warin

Senior member
Sep 6, 2001
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Originally posted by: Brie
In terms of area, out of the entire country of Iraq it sounds like we only need to focus on a few spots (area wise).

The problem is that he vast majority of the iraqi population lives in those 'few spots'. No matter how much you try to gloss it over, the vast majority of people in Iraq live in areas where they US occupation is encountering problems.

This is just another symbol to me of trying to put a positive spin on something that is not terribly stable.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,823
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What they could have done is show the areas where people live and the problem in that area. The reason there's not a problem in the desert and won't be is that nobody can live there.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,809
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"recent days"! Us minions knew this a long time before the war started! There goes the "they may have intel that we are not privy to." arguement.
 

Martin

Lifer
Jan 15, 2000
29,178
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Originally posted by: Brie
Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
From the L.A. Times:
Gen. Tommy Franks appeared Thursday before the House Armed Services Committee with a large map showing the trouble spots in Iraq. He pointed to a small triangle and a few dots indicating where troops were coming under attack, with the vast rest of Iraq shaded safely green. A quick-witted Rep. Ellen O. Tauscher (D-Pleasanton) pointed out that the triangle and spots "represent 70% of the Iraqi population." And most of the green-colored area was unpopulated desert.

Yes yes she is very witty but I also think that she is an ass for making that remark. I believe that from a military point of view I would be much more difficult for us to keep control of the situation if indeed the resistance moved to that 'unpopulated desert' (hmm Vietnam anyone).

Vietnam was a jungle, not a dessert. it would be much easier if the resistance was in the flat desert where there is no place to hide (if you don't believe me, read Bravo Two Zero), rather than among densely populated cities.