Talk me out of getting some FM2+ A8-7600 rigs

[Enigmoid]

A10-7850K = $169,99

vs

Core i3 4150 = $116,99

+

R7 240 = $49,99 AR

= $166,98

I would like to see the murder day in day out, that Intel i3 + 240 has no chance at all

It seams the compromise is with Intel Core i3 this days, you pay the same for lower performance :whiste:

Using PCpartpicker.

a10-7850k = $167
8GB 2133 mhz RAM = $76

Total = $243

vs.

i3-4150 = $110
8GB 1600 mhz RAM = $72
R7 250 = $59 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...D=3938566&SID=)

Total = $ 241

Same price better performance. If you are willing to spend $24 more (10%) you can get a 260.

http://www.microcenter.com/product/429296/AMD_Radeon_R7_260_Overclocked_1GB__PCIe_30x16_Video_Card

 

[Abwx]

Using PCpartpicker.

i3-4150 = $110
8GB 1600 mhz RAM = $72
R7 250 = $59 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...D=3938566&SID=)

Total = $ 241

a8-7600 = about $110
8GB 2133 mhz RAM = $76

Total = $186

There s little perf difference between the 7850 and the 7600, even GPU wise.

http://www.computerbase.de/2014-07/amd-a10-7800-kaveri-im-test/

For the difference you could almost buy this case, i used one for KB, it include the PSU and is enough if the 7600 is set to 45W :

http://www.hardwarereview.net/Reviews/Antec ISK110-VESA Case Review/AntecISK110VESACaseReview.htm

 

[DominionSeraph]

Time to get you started on an ebay server addiction.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-PowerE...784845?pt=COMP_EN_Servers&hash=item2a409ef1cd

 

[Enigmoid]

a8-7600 = about $110
8GB 2133 mhz RAM = $76

Total = $186

There s little perf difference between the 7850 and the 7600, even GPU wise.

http://www.computerbase.de/2014-07/amd-a10-7800-kaveri-im-test/

True. But the a8-7600 is about the same as a DDR3 240.

But the 250 is about 70% faster. Perf/$ favours the i3 build and the i3 has more headroom for a stronger GPU and the CPU can be significantly upgraded if desired.

The 250 is personally about as low as I would go for any sort of noncasual gaming. The 240 is completely inadequate for 1080p while the 250 can comfortably handle 1080p med/low.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-r7-240-and-250,3717-4.html

The kaveri build is good in between the range where you need better graphics than the i3 and where you want to play games. Otherwise it starts to lost its luster.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Not to sidetrack the i3 versus Kaveri discussion, but I really want something that is:
1) cheap (let's say $110 max)
2) low-power (65W or lower)
3) capable of decent distributed-computing performance
Right now, I think, that means GCN shaders over AVX support, because more projects support OpenCL and GCN, than support AVX-optimized CPU clients.

Gaming performance really doesn't factor in to this much. And I'm fairly price-sensitive in this purchase. If I followed the logic of "it would be faster, for just a little more $$$", then I would be purchasing a Haswell-E 8-core CPU and four 290X video cards.

But in the real world, absolute costs matter. And AMD is (generally) a winner in this category.

Edit: To elaborate a bit, I'm comparing this purchase, and performance, and power draw, to my existing Q9300 @ 3.0 rigs, with 8GB DDR2-800, and discrete video cards.

I paid $100 + tax ea. for my Q9300 CPUs at MC. 4x2GB DDR2-800 cost me $140. The cost of the discrete video cards varied, but the HD4850 cards were $150 ea. on an early-release sale at BestBuy. The P35-DS3R mobo was $130. Power consumption under combined CPU+GPU load, was nearly 280W at the wall.

The MSI A55 mobo is only $28. The A8-7600 will be $110, or $100 if I wait a month. The DDR3-1600 I already stockpiled, cost me $40 for 8GB. So $168-178 total. It should be faster, both CPU and GPU (perhaps not in DP flops though), and power consumption should be much lower, possibly under 100W at the wall.

 

[schmuckley]

You would get 100% more enjoyment out of a z97 + Pentium G3258 setup.
or 2600K + z68
or 965 BE + 990 FX
or 960t + 990fx er..Asus or Biostar only
or..i3 4360 + watever..
It's garbage..
I like AMD..but..all that stuff..is crap.
It is what it is.
Oh Oh...
890gx + quad core Propus is also better
or 890 fx er watever + good GPU

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Not to sidetrack the i3 versus Kaveri discussion, but I really want something that is:
1) cheap (let's say $110 max)
2) low-power (65W or lower)
3) capable of decent distributed-computing performance
Right now, I think, that means GCN shaders over AVX support, because more projects support OpenCL and GCN, than support AVX-optimized CPU clients.

Gaming performance really doesn't factor in to this much. And I'm fairly price-sensitive in this purchase. If I followed the logic of "it would be faster, for just a little more $$$", then I would be purchasing a Haswell-E 8-core CPU and four 290X video cards.

But in the real world, absolute costs matter. And AMD is (generally) a winner in this category.

Edit: To elaborate a bit, I'm comparing this purchase, and performance, and power draw, to my existing Q9300 @ 3.0 rigs, with 8GB DDR2-800, and discrete video cards.

I paid $100 + tax ea. for my Q9300 CPUs at MC. 4x2GB DDR2-800 cost me $140. The cost of the discrete video cards varied, but the HD4850 cards were $150 ea. on an early-release sale at BestBuy. The P35-DS3R mobo was $130. Power consumption under combined CPU+GPU load, was nearly 280W at the wall.

The MSI A55 mobo is only $28. The A8-7600 will be $110, or $100 if I wait a month. The DDR3-1600 I already stockpiled, cost me $40 for 8GB. So $168-178 total. It should be faster, both CPU and GPU (perhaps not in DP flops though), and power consumption should be much lower, possibly under 100W at the wall.

How about something crazy-unbalanced like a:

Celeron 847 - $62 (Or a similar Atom or E-whatever board would work, as long as it had a PCI-E x16 slot.)

Then you can get a used Radeon 6850, for ~$50 easily (which is more powerful than anything else we've mentioned - although it uses an older architecture, and may not work well depending on the application your using.)

 

[VirtualLarry]

How about something crazy-unbalanced like a:

Celeron 847 - $62 (Or a similar Atom or E-whatever board would work, as long as it had a PCI-E x16 slot.)

Then you can get a used Radeon 6850, for ~$50 easily (which is more powerful than anything else we've mentioned - although it uses an older architecture, and may not work well depending on the application your using.)

That's actually not a bad idea, in some ways, other than I would want a 7770 (GCN 1.0) or 7790 / R7 260X (GCN 1.1) card, instead of a 6850. 6850 is slow for compute, and doesn't have great power-efficiency either.

I think that my solution is still cheaper, has better power efficiency, and better compute capability (compared to 6850, maybe not to 260X).

 

[VirtualLarry]

It's garbage..
I like AMD..but..all that stuff..is crap.
It is what it is.
Oh Oh...
890gx + quad core Propus is also better

Propus? Are you serious? With the 890GX IGP, that has little-to-no compute capability?

 

[dave_the_nerd]

That's actually not a bad idea, in some ways, other than I would want a 7770 (GCN 1.0) or 7790 / R7 260X (GCN 1.1) card, instead of a 6850. 6850 is slow for compute, and doesn't have great power-efficiency either.

I think that my solution is still cheaper, has better power efficiency, and better compute capability (compared to 6850, maybe not to 260X).

Benchmarks I've seen put the top end APUs around the performance of a discrete 240, so anything from a 250 on up would be an improvement...?

But I'm finding 7770s on eBay for $50-$60 anyway, so it's a moot point.

 

[escrow4]

A10-7850K = $169,99

vs

Core i3 4150 = $116,99

+

R7 240 = $49,99 AR

= $166,98

I would like to see the murder day in day out, that Intel i3 + 240 has no chance at all

It seams the compromise is with Intel Core i3 this days, you pay the same for lower performance :whiste:

If you want to go for a 7850K, then you want a Haswell 4330 at least with a radeon 250. So 140 or so for a CPU and 90 for the GPU. Then there is no compromise.

 

[Yuriman]

I'm seeing Larry's point here though, in that you're generally going to have to buy used hardware to match the value of an AMD APU below ~$115 if you're actually making use of the GCN cores, be it for compute or gaming. The CPU is a fair match for the number of cores you get in these lower end chips when it comes to gaming, not to mention slower quads often have better perceived performance for general use than faster duals.

i3's are in another class in terms of performance, but also in price, unless you're looking on eBay for your video cards. Which I do.

 

[AtenRa]

Using PCpartpicker.

a10-7850k = $167
8GB 2133 mhz RAM = $76

Total = $243

vs.

i3-4150 = $110
8GB 1600 mhz RAM = $72
R7 250 = $59 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...D=3938566&SID=)

Total = $ 241

Same price better performance. If you are willing to spend $24 more (10%) you can get a 260.

http://www.microcenter.com/product/429296/AMD_Radeon_R7_260_Overclocked_1GB__PCIe_30x16_Video_Card

The R7 250 on your link is with DDR-3 1800MHz, an Overclock A10-7850K at 960MHz iGPU + 2400MHz memory will be faster at the same price.
Not to mention you can also OC the CPU and be even faster than Core i3 4150.

So even with that GPU i dont see the murder he was talking about.

 

[Blue_Max]

Power Supply Calculator puts a 7600 with 2 sticks of RAM and a single HDD at 107W "minimum".

An i3-4330 and R7-250 is 149W "minimum".


If the A8 7600 gives you enough gaming or DC power in comparison, it will do it with 30% less power. :thumbsup:

If I wanted each of my two kids to have their OWN computer, not fighting over one (or mine!) this is definitely the route I'd go. No question.

 

[AtenRa]

If you want to go for a 7850K, then you want a Haswell 4330 at least with a radeon 250. So 140 or so for a CPU and 90 for the GPU. Then there is no compromise.

You compromise again, you spend more

 

[Geforce man]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboD...=Combo.1816185

Plus any video card you want. Price / performance is unbeatable. 80$ for a g3258 and a motherboard that can overclock it. Even stock cooler most people are at 4.2-4.5Ghz. That will decimate anything AMD has to offer in single thread performance. Gaming performance shows that this setup can beat out the fx 6300. Anywho, 80$ plus any videocard that is reasonably priced = your best bet.

If you do anything else, you no longer care about cost / performance for$, you care about supporting a specific manufacturer. Which is fine, but don't try to kid yourself.

 

[cbn]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboD...=Combo.1816185

Plus any video card you want. Price / performance is unbeatable. 80$ for a g3258 and a motherboard that can overclock it. Even stock cooler most people are at 4.2-4.5Ghz. That will decimate anything AMD has to offer in single thread performance. Gaming performance shows that this setup can beat out the fx 6300. Anywho, 80$ plus any videocard that is reasonably priced = your best bet.

If you do anything else, you no longer care about cost / performance for$, you care about supporting a specific manufacturer. Which is fine, but don't try to kid yourself.

See that is the thing about G3258 and AMD...

With Intel we are seeing these incredibly affordable motherboard/G3258 cpu combos with almost non-stop availability.

But with AMD, a person must pay full price for the motherboard (the exception being MC in store deals)

What I wish AMD had was some type of super bargain chip that also causes the retailers to release super sale priced cpu/mobo combos.

 

[Enigmoid]

Can the G3258 OC on an H81 board?

 

[cbn]

Can the G3258 OC on an H81 board?

Yes.

Take a look here----> http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2389948

 

[cbn]

With AMD celebrating 30 years of Gaming (through ATI)--> http://www.amd.com/en-us/who-we-are/corporate-information/events/amd-30-live, I'd have to imagine we could see a 30th Anniversary APU eventually.

(crossing fingers we see that bargain chip show up)

 

[AtenRa]

See that is the thing about G3258 and AMD...

With Intel we are seeing these incredibly affordable motherboard/G3258 cpu combos with almost non-stop availability.

But with AMD, a person must pay full price for the motherboard (the exception being MC in store deals)

What I wish AMD had was some type of super bargain chip that also causes the retailers to release super sale priced cpu/mobo combos.

Just because you have those combos in the US doesnt mean the rest of the world have them as well

 

[Abwx]

Just because you have those combos in the US doesnt mean the rest of the world have them as well

What is costly are mini itx MBs, if one is content with uATX you can have some cool FM2+ MBs like this one wich sell 50€, and that is with 20.6% VAT included.

http://www.ldlc.com/informatique/pieces-informatique/carte-mere/c4293/+fv160-10159.html

 

[VirtualLarry]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboD...=Combo.1816185

Plus any video card you want. Price / performance is unbeatable. 80$ for a g3258 and a motherboard that can overclock it. Even stock cooler most people are at 4.2-4.5Ghz. That will decimate anything AMD has to offer in single thread performance. Gaming performance shows that this setup can beat out the fx 6300. Anywho, 80$ plus any videocard that is reasonably priced = your best bet.

If you do anything else, you no longer care about cost / performance for$, you care about supporting a specific manufacturer. Which is fine, but don't try to kid yourself.

I did end up ordering two of those combos today, the price is amazing. Whether I end up with them, or a couple of friends of mine, that remains to be seen.

I may even keep the G3258 CPUs, pick up a pair of G1840 CPUs, and use that gigabyte H61 board without HDMI in a couple of rigs for friends, and get myself some Asrock Z97 Pro4 boards for my own workstations, with an eye to drop in some Broadwell-K quad-core CPUs in the future.

I can always still get the A8-7600 CPUs, or perhaps a pair of the A4-7300 dual-cores. The MSI A55 boards were already ordered.

Either way, I'm going to be swimming in PCs the next few months.

Edit: I could keep the Gigabyte H61 non-HDMI boards, and drop in some GT620 video cards that I already have. They may not perform much better than the 10 EU Haswell GT1 IGP, but at least I will have HDMI, and I can do some GPGPU (96 cores) on those cards. Still, I think a quad-core with GCN shaders is a lot more capable and well-rounded a solution. Especially in a 65W envelope.

Though I suppose it's an open question if the A8-7600 throttles under full CPU+GPU load, to maintain the 65W TDP. If it does have to throttle to achieve that, then it may not be as ideal a solution as I had originally imagined.

 

[Blue_Max]

The 7600 is an amazing performer for a lousy 45W!! It's got me tempted as well!

 

[cbn]

The 7600 is an amazing performer for a lousy 45W!! It's got me tempted as well!

Assuming it doesn't throttle badly........


These days I hate to see desktop processors adopt mobile processor bin labels. This where we see amazing specs for the low power consumption but then later realize the specs on the cpu and gpu are not really what happens at the specified TDP.