- Apr 10, 2003
- 1,527
- 5
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NutBucket
Lifer
- Aug 30, 2000
- 27,127
- 616
- 126
Its no harder or more expensive to maintain than any other Japanese car IMHO. I do oil changes every 5k, replace the coolant every 3 years or so (same for the brake fluid). No major issues with our '05 aside from a leaking power steering pump and a tank of bad gas a few years ago.
The 2014 model year is not changing. The 2015 model year will be changing... dramatically if you believe the concept car Subaru showed at the NY Auto Show:
but recently spy shots of Subaru testing the 2015 seem to give lie to that hope, unless they are just testing the engine in an Imprezza frame:
The 2014 model is available for order now so I would not buy a '13 model year. The 2014 model year is going to be a short year, with 2015's being officially announced before the end of this year and (reportedly) shipping to customers in spring of 2014. '15's will reportedly have a bit more HP, get a bit better gas milage, and who knows about the interior.
All that said, my wife just order herself a black 2014 WRX Sti:
... she said she couldn't wait for a 2015 model.
So don't get a 2013. Do get a 2014 if you don't want to wait or don't want a different body style. Personally, I like the 4-door better than the 5-door, but everyone has a different opinion on that (even though there's only two choices...)
We (oops, she) bought a 2014 instead of a 2013 for three reasons:
1) We got a better deal on a 2014 over the internet than we did at a local dealer for a 2013... literally several thousand dollars better.
2) The expectation is that the 2014 will eventually blue book for a higher value than 2013, even if the cars were both bought on the same calendar date.
3) Going the quote-over-the-internet way she was able to get exactly what she wanted wrt color and options.
The downside is that since it goes in as a factory build instead of a dealer allocation (i.e. they order it specifically instead of the manufacturer shipping semi-random selections to the dealership), you have to wait a few months for the car. But you get exactly what you want, and for us it was cheaper than taking what the local dealer had on their lot.
edit to add that build-to-order has been closed for awhile on the 2013's so if you go that route it has to be a 2014.
1) We got a better deal on a 2014 over the internet than we did at a local dealer for a 2013... literally several thousand dollars better.
2) The expectation is that the 2014 will eventually blue book for a higher value than 2013, even if the cars were both bought on the same calendar date.
3) Going the quote-over-the-internet way she was able to get exactly what she wanted wrt color and options.
The downside is that since it goes in as a factory build instead of a dealer allocation (i.e. they order it specifically instead of the manufacturer shipping semi-random selections to the dealership), you have to wait a few months for the car. But you get exactly what you want, and for us it was cheaper than taking what the local dealer had on their lot.
edit to add that build-to-order has been closed for awhile on the 2013's so if you go that route it has to be a 2014.
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Interesting, so lets say that new WRX comes out and I want it. It would be cheaper to get one factory built to your specs compared to just finding one on a dealer lot somewhere + dealer transfer fee?
When you negotiated, how hard was it and how long did it take?
When you negotiated, how hard was it and how long did it take?
Every situation is unique, I don't know why the local dealer didn't want to deal; they said that they had that specific car in since April but it only had 35 miles on the odometer so it didn't seem like it was getting a lot of test drives (and it was the only WRX STi on their lot). They also said they were a no-haggle dealer, and their price was $x, and that was what they were going to sell it for. Maybe they think someone else willing to pay a higher price will come along soon, but since their price was barely below MSRP I went online and googled a bunch of Subaru dealerships.
Most of the dealerships are running the same bog-standard deals but some are not. Ones that claim to be high-volume seem to want to move their cars quickly - in looking up what dealer hold-backs are, and the various ways dealers make their profits, it appears that they can make profit and avoid interest expense on their inventory if they sell it very quickly, even if at lower prices.
I ended up saving a lot of money, so it worked for me; the process was simple and fast.... exchange a few emails, decide specifically and exactly what you want, get a final price, decide if you want it or not, put down a deposit ($1k via credit card), and in about two months the wife will have a new car. I guess I am out two months interest on the deposit, but with what my checking account earns, that is pretty much squat.
Anyway, I was mainly trying to address the "2013" in the OP's original question. Right now is a bit of a weird time specifically for WRX's with the 2014 model year being shortened and with (supposedly) a new body style being available early in 2015. Were it not for my wife wanting one right now I would wait until December and see what the 2015's look like. If they look great, then I would buy one of them. If they look like crap, then I would buy a 2014 while they are still around. Based on my very recent experience, I would not go for a 2013 right now - but who knows, maybe in December there will be a year end blow-out to move the last of the 2013 inventory.
Whatever you do, I hope you use the internet as well as local dealers and no matter if you are online or at a dealer, be sure that you are willing to walk away or else you'll end up get taken.
Most of the dealerships are running the same bog-standard deals but some are not. Ones that claim to be high-volume seem to want to move their cars quickly - in looking up what dealer hold-backs are, and the various ways dealers make their profits, it appears that they can make profit and avoid interest expense on their inventory if they sell it very quickly, even if at lower prices.
I ended up saving a lot of money, so it worked for me; the process was simple and fast.... exchange a few emails, decide specifically and exactly what you want, get a final price, decide if you want it or not, put down a deposit ($1k via credit card), and in about two months the wife will have a new car. I guess I am out two months interest on the deposit, but with what my checking account earns, that is pretty much squat.
Anyway, I was mainly trying to address the "2013" in the OP's original question. Right now is a bit of a weird time specifically for WRX's with the 2014 model year being shortened and with (supposedly) a new body style being available early in 2015. Were it not for my wife wanting one right now I would wait until December and see what the 2015's look like. If they look great, then I would buy one of them. If they look like crap, then I would buy a 2014 while they are still around. Based on my very recent experience, I would not go for a 2013 right now - but who knows, maybe in December there will be a year end blow-out to move the last of the 2013 inventory.
Whatever you do, I hope you use the internet as well as local dealers and no matter if you are online or at a dealer, be sure that you are willing to walk away or else you'll end up get taken.
- Apr 10, 2003
- 1,527
- 5
- 81
I had a stock 2001 E46 M3, and was rear ended in a rain storm a few years ago, and the car was totaled. I wound up getting a two year old (at the time) 2008 STi.
In terms of costs, there is no comparison. Oil changes, and cleaning the K&N air filter are dirt cheap since the STi can take a regular oil available at retail, and not the extremely expensive 10w60 that the M3 required. Brakes are comparable. The only other service I did was flush the radiator.
Tires are much more expensive on the M3 if you get quality, and you can get a full set of summer and winter tires for the cost of decent M3 summer rubber.
The M3 was much more subject to suspension damage on bad roads, and I had bent control arms and alignment issues constantly, which required expensive repairs. Alignments can only be done at dealers, inflating those costs on top of that.
I never had any real mechanical issues on the M3 in the 80,000 miles I owned it, so that's a wash since the STi has also been completely reliable.
In terms of practicality, the STi rocks. I can load it up with a ton of stuff because of the huge hatch, and don's care about snow. In rain they are comparable since good tires do a lot for RWD cars. In snow though, with winter tires (I had them for the M3 also), the STi is fantastic. The STi also ignores bad pavement. The STi eats more gas, but mine is tuned to be even worse. I cannot get more than 20 miles to the gallon.. ever. Premium only too.
Now, for performance... it;s a mixed bag. You will never get the STi to drive like an M3. It just won't happen. It gives up too much in understeer. The WRX more so, due to a softer suspension. The STi can keep up with an M3 in acceleration, the WRX less so. Modding can do a lot though. My STi has a full exhaust, and is tuned to about 305HP/365ft-lb, to the wheels, and is a blast to drive. But it did not feel right until I also replaced the anti-roll bars and end links with stiffer Whiteline/Kartboy parts. That gave back the feel that the stock suspension was missing, and that was very scary after coming from a car with such great feel.
Verdict: Get an STi if you can, but a WRX is fun also. Both need modding of the suspension,.. desperately.. to be any fun to a guy coming from an M3. If you miss the power, a Stage I chip is cheap, and a Stage II only requires exhaust work, and both are much cheaper than anything you can get for an M3.
From this:
To this:
In terms of costs, there is no comparison. Oil changes, and cleaning the K&N air filter are dirt cheap since the STi can take a regular oil available at retail, and not the extremely expensive 10w60 that the M3 required. Brakes are comparable. The only other service I did was flush the radiator.
Tires are much more expensive on the M3 if you get quality, and you can get a full set of summer and winter tires for the cost of decent M3 summer rubber.
The M3 was much more subject to suspension damage on bad roads, and I had bent control arms and alignment issues constantly, which required expensive repairs. Alignments can only be done at dealers, inflating those costs on top of that.
I never had any real mechanical issues on the M3 in the 80,000 miles I owned it, so that's a wash since the STi has also been completely reliable.
In terms of practicality, the STi rocks. I can load it up with a ton of stuff because of the huge hatch, and don's care about snow. In rain they are comparable since good tires do a lot for RWD cars. In snow though, with winter tires (I had them for the M3 also), the STi is fantastic. The STi also ignores bad pavement. The STi eats more gas, but mine is tuned to be even worse. I cannot get more than 20 miles to the gallon.. ever. Premium only too.
Now, for performance... it;s a mixed bag. You will never get the STi to drive like an M3. It just won't happen. It gives up too much in understeer. The WRX more so, due to a softer suspension. The STi can keep up with an M3 in acceleration, the WRX less so. Modding can do a lot though. My STi has a full exhaust, and is tuned to about 305HP/365ft-lb, to the wheels, and is a blast to drive. But it did not feel right until I also replaced the anti-roll bars and end links with stiffer Whiteline/Kartboy parts. That gave back the feel that the stock suspension was missing, and that was very scary after coming from a car with such great feel.
Verdict: Get an STi if you can, but a WRX is fun also. Both need modding of the suspension,.. desperately.. to be any fun to a guy coming from an M3. If you miss the power, a Stage I chip is cheap, and a Stage II only requires exhaust work, and both are much cheaper than anything you can get for an M3.
From this:
To this:
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Zap
Elite Member
- Oct 13, 1999
- 22,377
- 7
- 81
Maintenance is the same as any other Japanese car, with the exception that Subaru calls for 3750-mile oil changes using synthetic. Cost around $65 to do at the dealer. Also, parts (tires/brakes) will be more expensive than non-high performance vehicles.
My wife daily drove it for 1½ years, putting over 30,000 miles on it. No issues, other than her wishing for a better sound system and the Bluetooth sucking (horrible sound quality compared to several other cars I've been in that had factory Bluetooth). Oh yeah, and the gas mileage.
Pricing depends on the dealer's willingness, not whether you order or purchase one off the lot.
We ordered our 2011 WRX Limited in November of 2010, with delivery around December 21st or so. I think we were quoted 4 weeks-ish. There was no negotiation. We went through the AAA membership site buying service, and was contacted by a dealer with a "fixed" pricing of dealer invoice + $500 (IIRC) no matter which model we got or what options we got, or off-the-lot or ordered. We had gone to other dealers that weren't as good (wouldn't let us test drive, wouldn't budge on pricing). AAA now uses Truecar (don't know if it was in-house or a different service before, but it was different with the WRX) as their buying service, which we used for our Fiat 500 Abarth, but it didn't seem as good with the dealer we dealt with - they absolutely would not "guarantee" the price I was given over the internet, but we were prepared to walk so they ended up giving us an even better price. :\
Our WRX, with obligatory clown car behind it. :biggrin:
T2urtle
Diamond Member
- Oct 18, 2004
- 3,432
- 3
- 81
And u don't think that's a huge issue? People often make a lot of excuses for German cars and that clearly one of them. Things like a timing belt are not huge issues, which I'm sure the wrx still has. But control arms at 80k is border line an issue. I think tire wear on the m3 and wrx are about even. Good sticky set should only last u 30k. The older wrx came with horrible stock tires. But end of the day I think the wrx will be cheaper to own but driving enjoyment easily goes to the BMW.
What makes it sound like an excuse? I said it was much more subject to getting damaged on shitty roads, leading to expensive repairs that other cars I've had did not need. But that's not a mechanical failure, or regular maintenance, so I wanted to keep that separate.
I also did not gush at how superior a driving experience the M3 is. It runs circles around the stock WRX and STi in feel, responsiveness, linear power and predictability. My STi is faster on the line and much more practical, but is much less of a driver's car.
But it cost me $30,000, even at five years old, as opposed to $25,000 at two years old for the STi.
The interior of the STi is crap as well.. cheap plastic dash and door panels, and barely comfortable seats with no adjustability. But the drivetrain and is excellent, and it has a unique fun factor and feel of its own.
I also did not gush at how superior a driving experience the M3 is. It runs circles around the stock WRX and STi in feel, responsiveness, linear power and predictability. My STi is faster on the line and much more practical, but is much less of a driver's car.
But it cost me $30,000, even at five years old, as opposed to $25,000 at two years old for the STi.
The interior of the STi is crap as well.. cheap plastic dash and door panels, and barely comfortable seats with no adjustability. But the drivetrain and is excellent, and it has a unique fun factor and feel of its own.
ill only suggest taking a look at the focus st. it'll be fun whatever you choose.
i've always loved subarus
edit: should say i live in a part of the US where AWD is unnecessary - keep in mind though that the focus st interior was much more well appointed in my opinion too
i've always loved subarus
edit: should say i live in a part of the US where AWD is unnecessary - keep in mind though that the focus st interior was much more well appointed in my opinion too
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GoodRevrnd
Diamond Member
- Dec 27, 2001
- 6,801
- 581
- 126
Assuming you could put up with any potential maintenance issues, I'm not sure why you just wouldn't by something like a clean 2010 335i and throw some basic mods on it. It should run circles around the STi and even if you got the Premium Subie interior package it still wouldn't touch the bimmer and you'd be spending at least $5k more.
He is looking at a WRX, not an STi, so we are talking about $11K or $12K more for a moderately priced 2010 335i.
For that money, get a new Mustang GT and you get an even better driving car. The new Mustangs are brilliant driving cars and were on my short list before decidign that I needed practicality and AWD. And you can get a bumper to bumper warranty thrown in too.
For that money, get a new Mustang GT and you get an even better driving car. The new Mustangs are brilliant driving cars and were on my short list before decidign that I needed practicality and AWD. And you can get a bumper to bumper warranty thrown in too.
thescreensavers
Diamond Member
- Aug 3, 2005
- 9,916
- 2
- 81
What Bothered me about my WRX Coming from a 2005 G35
Brake Feel-
The System is very assisted so it does not give good brake feel. I also got rid of the OEM Pads at around 10k. I put in Stop Tech 309 and they are great and they only were ~$100
Suspension -
It was too soft for me, it does absorb bumps well but I wanted something "more" new springs/shocks/sways and endlinks. Works well for me.
Sound-
Yes it sucks, local content its not terrible imo. But its been proven the speakers are actually decent and that its the head unit that lets it down.
I recently upgraded to a new Subaru Head Unit, it sounds a bit better but I did not do this for sound upgrade.
I drive this car everyday, It has 20k Miles on it and I enjoy every minute of it. The Seats are comfortable, the Cabin is spacious and the Interior is functional.
For MPG - The Trick is to stay out of boost, in the city you cannot really do that but on the highway if you go ~70mph 25-28mpg is obtainable.
Maintenance Wise its pretty decent. For buying a new one you should get included maintenance for 2 years which = 4 free oil changes an anything that needs to be changed in two years. They want you do to 7500 Miles OCI which really cannot be done on a WRX. 5k Miles Max and bring it down to 3750 if you do anything that you think you should change earlier.
If you look around people talk about Consumption of oil on these cars, that is because they are exceeding the temperature of the oil which makes it turn into vapor through the PCV. I have personally not had any oil Consumption at 5k OCI's with SOA oil.
When you start talking and looking at OIL recommendation it gets iffy with the Turbo and Resource Conserving oils... In short I am going with Motul 8100 X-Clean 5W30. Everyone and their mother Recommends Rotella T6 at NASIOC but that would not work with warranty.
Drive its competitors and see how you like them all. Check the Forums for issues they might have. Pick the one which puts a smile on your face when you are inside and outside the car.
Brake Feel-
The System is very assisted so it does not give good brake feel. I also got rid of the OEM Pads at around 10k. I put in Stop Tech 309 and they are great and they only were ~$100
Suspension -
It was too soft for me, it does absorb bumps well but I wanted something "more" new springs/shocks/sways and endlinks. Works well for me.
Sound-
Yes it sucks, local content its not terrible imo. But its been proven the speakers are actually decent and that its the head unit that lets it down.
I recently upgraded to a new Subaru Head Unit, it sounds a bit better but I did not do this for sound upgrade.
I drive this car everyday, It has 20k Miles on it and I enjoy every minute of it. The Seats are comfortable, the Cabin is spacious and the Interior is functional.
For MPG - The Trick is to stay out of boost, in the city you cannot really do that but on the highway if you go ~70mph 25-28mpg is obtainable.
Maintenance Wise its pretty decent. For buying a new one you should get included maintenance for 2 years which = 4 free oil changes an anything that needs to be changed in two years. They want you do to 7500 Miles OCI which really cannot be done on a WRX. 5k Miles Max and bring it down to 3750 if you do anything that you think you should change earlier.
If you look around people talk about Consumption of oil on these cars, that is because they are exceeding the temperature of the oil which makes it turn into vapor through the PCV. I have personally not had any oil Consumption at 5k OCI's with SOA oil.
When you start talking and looking at OIL recommendation it gets iffy with the Turbo and Resource Conserving oils... In short I am going with Motul 8100 X-Clean 5W30. Everyone and their mother Recommends Rotella T6 at NASIOC but that would not work with warranty.
Drive its competitors and see how you like them all. Check the Forums for issues they might have. Pick the one which puts a smile on your face when you are inside and outside the car.
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AWD IMO is way overrated. I've done fine on very icy roads with FWD vehicles. I can't even really tell, and for me at least all AWD does is add weight and burn more fuel without really resulting in anything noticeable improvements.
And isn't the power distribution like 90/10 anyways?
And isn't the power distribution like 90/10 anyways?
Went from a 2007 Civic Si to a 2013 STi hatch late last year. The car is a little rough around the edges but overall I really enjoy it.
Pros
- Very satisfying power, nice mid-range torque (Stage 1/2 gives you a lot more for relatively cheap)
- Practical for hauling people/stuff
- Sound (mine has the SPT exhaust, nice rumble without being too loud)
- Excellent AWD system
- Very easy to use clutch
- Great community, you will get waves from other owners daily
- Solid aftermarket if you want more power
- Reliable reputation
Cons
- Low MPG (moreso if you love boost)
- HORRIBLE stock sound system. My old Si sounded 10x better.
- Modest looking interior, low quality materials that are easy to scratch
- Annoying rattles (particularly in the front right door)
- Stock powerband has Parkinson's in certain spots (WRX is better here)
- WRX shifter felt vague when I test drove one
The car has several annoyances that you can fix. The looks are take it over leave it. Personally, I think it looks aggressive and sporty. Its a unique package of practicality and power that few other cars have.
The 2015 WRX is yet another variable to consider. The leaked info and pictures suggest it will look like a WRX'ified Impreza. Subaru's track record on first year WRX/STi models is highly suspect, so I would wait til the second model year for the bugs in the new drivetrain to get ironed out.
Pros
- Very satisfying power, nice mid-range torque (Stage 1/2 gives you a lot more for relatively cheap)
- Practical for hauling people/stuff
- Sound (mine has the SPT exhaust, nice rumble without being too loud)
- Excellent AWD system
- Very easy to use clutch
- Great community, you will get waves from other owners daily
- Solid aftermarket if you want more power
- Reliable reputation
Cons
- Low MPG (moreso if you love boost)
- HORRIBLE stock sound system. My old Si sounded 10x better.
- Modest looking interior, low quality materials that are easy to scratch
- Annoying rattles (particularly in the front right door)
- Stock powerband has Parkinson's in certain spots (WRX is better here)
- WRX shifter felt vague when I test drove one
The car has several annoyances that you can fix. The looks are take it over leave it. Personally, I think it looks aggressive and sporty. Its a unique package of practicality and power that few other cars have.
The 2015 WRX is yet another variable to consider. The leaked info and pictures suggest it will look like a WRX'ified Impreza. Subaru's track record on first year WRX/STi models is highly suspect, so I would wait til the second model year for the bugs in the new drivetrain to get ironed out.
Zap
Elite Member
- Oct 13, 1999
- 22,377
- 7
- 81
Got any links? I could have sworn that the speakers were the culprit.
:thumbsup: Great advice!
That's how we ended up with a Fiat 500 Abarth as our 3rd vehicle.
You're probably thinking of various front-biased AWD systems (like in my Mazdaspeed 6). Supposedly the Subaru system is pretty equal by default.
I know! For some strange reason if I'm ever at a gas station with the WRX and there's another WRX there, I always end up talking to the guy who drives it.
A bit different than when driving the Fiat. I've had some housewife looking woman shout how she loves my car, to a pair of teenage girls giggle and whoo whoo while stretching their arms towards me, and all kinds of hand waves and smiles from random women.
PhoKingGuy
Diamond Member
- Nov 15, 2007
- 4,685
- 0
- 76
When I bought my GTI I remember the insurance quote for the WRX was almost 50 bucks a month higher than the GTI.
Even now it would cost more to insure me (26 y/o male clean driving record) with a WRX than my current BMW 335i.
No thanks, not worth it.
Even now it would cost more to insure me (26 y/o male clean driving record) with a WRX than my current BMW 335i.
No thanks, not worth it.
thescreensavers
Diamond Member
- Aug 3, 2005
- 9,916
- 2
- 81
For The Speakers
A quick Search got me here, but its mentioned all over NASIOC
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2270975 Post #10
Also Check out
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2317060&highlight=2011+hidden+menu
With the Subaru Foresters Headunit in my WRX It does sound better. Though I got used to the Stock Sound so I cant tell you if its "Good" vs other cars.
WRX is Full Time 50/50 Power Split with a Viscous Center Diff, with the STI you can change more to the rear.
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