Taliban terror forces closing of schools in Pakistan

[chucky2]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Just an example of the darkness the American media leads its citizens to. Have you ever been to Pakistan or have you been watching too much Fox?

I don't always agree with JoS, but his response to this is going to be fun to read... 😀

Chuck

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: chucky2

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: eits
you know what i don't get? most of the people in pakistan back hardcore islamic rule and are fans of bin laden. they even teach about bin laden as a great guy and hero in many of the madrases over there. but we go after frigging iran?

So what do you want them to do? Invade a few more countries and expect to get away with it? I bet they teach that Bush is a national hero in a few schools in the US. Guess who has murdered more people?

And do you plan to commit genocide against those people who back OBL? American foreign policy is starting to resembling Nazi Germany. Kill who ever your fantasy considers a threats. Why hasn't the proof against OBL and Alqaeeda been declassified? I think Americans need to question the fascist policies of their government. It's utterly laughable how some Americans consider the muslim world in the dark ages when they themselves are being talked into darkness by murdering millions.

That you have these opinions and live there is a total validation on why the Western world needs to go clean up in your area of the world.

You simply are so mind F'd it's honestly hard to tell if you're being serious or just saying playing around. Scarily, I think you're being serious... :shocked:

Chuck

what do you mean by clean up? Genocide? That's the only way you're going to change our opinions that have taken a U-turn since your illegal wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. It's laughable how you think you can force people to change the opinion the have of yourself by violence. You're the one who'se doing the killing and complain when we protest.

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: eits
you know what i don't get? most of the people in pakistan back hardcore islamic rule and are fans of bin laden. they even teach about bin laden as a great guy and hero in many of the madrases over there. but we go after frigging iran?

Why does Islam have this problem?

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: eits
you know what i don't get? most of the people in pakistan back hardcore islamic rule and are fans of bin laden. they even teach about bin laden as a great guy and hero in many of the madrases over there. but we go after frigging iran?

Why does Islam have this problem?

why does islam have what problem?

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Palehorse74 asks---Hey Lemon, do you still want NATO to form an alliance with the Taliban?

Maybe you should be asking Karzai that question, but its still a mixed bad question. And to a certain extent you can't be blamed for being down on the Taliban, because you are
somewhat seeing the worst of the worst of them now that they are criminalized.

This is where I should have stopped reading... you still have no damn clue Lemon.

My thesis is that with better leadership, the taliban can be that movement that restored law and order to Afghanistan and then by itself reject the extremes of Sharia law.

I have yet to meet a member of the Taliban who would be willing to reject the extremes of Sharia Law. Not one. That is why your logic is flawed Lemon. If you ever met them, faced them, or spoke to them, you'd realize that their entire organization is beyond salvage. But, instead, we get a "thesis" based on NYtimes articles, news clips, and magazine excerpts that has no basis in reality whatsoever.

The bulk of the taliban is composed of those idealistic students and to assume that they as sons of the Afghan people want only slavery for their parents is absurd on the face of the argument.

lol... once again... we're talking about a group whose members would stone their closest relatives to death without a second thought.

My point is that law and order and a national system of trade routes is a precursor to any progress in Afghanistan. And one is always better in any occupation to work with national movements, and then moderate the undesirable parts of that national movement which takes time.

Perhaps you could provide us with a dead teachers per year, or per village, ratio that is acceptable in your "thesis"...?

Its just does not happen that way as the entire Nato alliance is discovering and now you have pushed the worst of the taliban into Pakistan and they are causing havoc there.

I believe we should follow them into Pakistan and destroy them... OR, the Pakistani Army could do it for us (I won't hold my breath).

We will now see if the talks Karzai is opening with the taliban can split the movement while harness and moderating the idealism of most of the sons of Afghanistan. One thing for sure, it can't be worse than the total bungle of our current military strategy that is making negative progress.

Splitting the Taliban, or causing strife within their organization, may be the only good thing to come out of Karzai's talks with them. I still think that he is making a major mistake; and it will not amount to much.

Tell me again, what progress is the US led occupation of Afghanistan making? And what part of negative don't you understand? Maybe its time to try something different that has a hope of working in time.

There has been an astronomical amount of progress made in Afghanistan; and, unlike you, I've seen it firsthand. Don't believe me? Go see it for yourself... I dare you! Your entire perception of the situation is off by a thousand miles...

Or you can continue trying to pass off your flawed knowledge of the subject based on your Holiday Inn Express exposure to the "facts"... the choice is yours!

There is nothing, at all, admirable or decent about the Taliban... nothing!.

 

[imported_Shivetya]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: Shivetya
Islamabad - More than 100 girls' schools were closed down in north-west Pakistan Monday following the murder of a female teacher by suspected pro-Taliban militants in the tribal areas bordering Afghanistan, media reports said.

The wonderful peaceful religion it is, the Taliban can make anything look bad. Hell they would make selling girl scout cookies look bad... (unless on halloween then they could dress up!)

Granted Pakistan is supposedly an ally but I wonder how long they can allow the Taliban to gain so much power through terror in their northern reaches?

This is where the eyes of NATO's should be turned to, not imaginary threats but this very real threat, the Talibans will take over a nuclear nation if they are not stopped, they even have popular support to do it.

The Talibans are the extreme filth of humanity, they shouldn't have an opportunity to even breath.

Just an example of the darkness the American media leads its citizens to. Have you ever been to Pakistan or have you been watching too much Fox?

The Taliban don't need anyone's help in distorting their desires. They go out of their way to prove to the world just how backwards and dangerous they are. It wasn't Fox that created the Taliban. No one had to make up the fact they destroyed valuable religious idols because of their zealotry forever depriving the world of their existance.

Sorry, but redirecting this to some equally idiot zealotry style hatred for Fox is just ignorant.

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: eits
you know what i don't get? most of the people in pakistan back hardcore islamic rule and are fans of bin laden. they even teach about bin laden as a great guy and hero in many of the madrases over there. but we go after frigging iran?

Why does Islam have this problem?

why does islam have what problem?

Hardcore Islamic Rule leading to religious violence and death to women and womens rights et al. and death to the infidels etc etc

 

[Lemon law]

We have to realize that The Green Bean has perspectives we don't have because he is Pakistani. We have an acute understanding of our politics and all the little taboos and myths we must tip toe around to form a consensus.

And now the USA is playing power politics in a nation able to curb its substantial right wing. Sure many of us would like the Pakistani army to swoop in and eliminate the taliban.
But we also better respect the fact that if we don't understand their politics and realities, it many not be as easy as it seems from a distance. And even if the Pakistani army swoops in, God only knows what mischief we will push onto other nations as we destabilize even more countries in the region.

Right now its election time in Pakistan and who knows what will happen if Musharraf and the moderates become odd man out. Have we not yet learned that bumbling around creates more problems than it solves? And Pakistan has arrested more Al-Quida than the rest of the world combined.

Things may stink now, lets not make things worse.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: eits
you know what i don't get? most of the people in pakistan back hardcore islamic rule and are fans of bin laden. they even teach about bin laden as a great guy and hero in many of the madrases over there. but we go after frigging iran?

Why does Islam have this problem?

why does islam have what problem?

Hardcore Islamic Rule leading to religious violence and death to women and womens rights et al. and death to the infidels etc etc

Death to women! That's laughable! How little idea some of you American "armchair" politicians have of the people that you kill. It's scary that the same people who have no idea of who they are killing are the ones voting for their "deciders." ... A democracy with stupid people can not work.

 

[Lemon law]

Palehorse 74's last statement says it all---There is nothing, at all, admirable or decent about the Taliban... nothing!.

Exactly the kinds of black white thinking that can only lead to perpetual war. You have to realize that others feel the same about us. The trick is to keep the black white simple minded thinkers in the safe tiny minority no one listens to. History teaches us that if nothing else.

Or perhaps you want to tell us all the progress we have made in stamping out opium production which had a bumper crop this year in Afghanistan. The marvels of the democracy
the US military has brought?

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: eits
you know what i don't get? most of the people in pakistan back hardcore islamic rule and are fans of bin laden. they even teach about bin laden as a great guy and hero in many of the madrases over there. but we go after frigging iran?

Why does Islam have this problem?

why does islam have what problem?

Hardcore Islamic Rule leading to religious violence and death to women and womens rights et al. and death to the infidels etc etc

Death to women! That's laughable! How little idea some of you American "armchair" politicians have of the people that you kill. It's scary that the same people who have no idea of who they are killing are the ones voting for their "deciders." ... A democracy with stupid people can not work.

What is a Madrassas?

IS Saudi Arabia a country where women has the same rights as men or even near the same rights

Are women allowed to wear bikinis in public if they wanted to and short skirts etc?

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
We have to realize that The Green Bean has perspectives we don't have because he is Pakistani. We have an acute understanding of our politics and all the little taboos and myths we must tip toe around to form a consensus.

And now the USA is playing power politics in a nation able to curb its substantial right wing. Sure many of us would like the Pakistani army to swoop in and eliminate the taliban.
But we also better respect the fact that if we don't understand their politics and realities, it many not be as easy as it seems from a distance. And even if the Pakistani army swoops in, God only knows what mischief we will push onto other nations as we destabilize even more countries in the region.

Right now its election time in Pakistan and who knows what will happen if Musharraf and the moderates become odd man out. Have we not yet learned that bumbling around creates more problems than it solves? And Pakistan has arrested more Al-Quida than the rest of the world combined.

Things may stink now, lets not make things worse.

I respect that you are open minded to the different perspectives of different people unlike most here on the forums that believe that their way of life is superior over everyone else and believe they have the right to force if; be it by using violence.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Palehorse 74's last statement says it all---There is nothing, at all, admirable or decent about the Taliban... nothing!.

Exactly the kinds of black white thinking that can only lead to perpetual war. You have to realize that others feel the same about us. The trick is to keep the black white simple minded thinkers in the safe tiny minority no one listens to. History teaches us that if nothing else.

Or perhaps you want to tell us all the progress we have made in stamping out opium production which had a bumper crop this year in Afghanistan. The marvels of the democracy
the US military has brought?

That kind of "nuanced" thinking was exactly what led to WW II. Apparently history didn't teach you anything, because there are some religious/political belief systems that can only be opposed with direct confrontation, be it sanctions/isolation or be it violence. The Taliban is a prime example.

Opium is a strawman, and frankly I don't really care because I think drugs should be decriminalized and medicalized. Let Afghanistan grow it and tax it.

 

[dahunan]

Can women easily become doctors and politicians and Professors ?

 

[RightIsWrong]

Wait, is this good news now or bad? I can't remember if shooting in the back no longer constitutes terror or if it was from the front?

Maybe one day we will ALL learn that violence only begets more violence.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: alchemize

That kind of "nuanced" thinking was exactly what led to WW II. Apparently history didn't teach you anything, because there are some religious/political belief systems that can only be opposed with direct confrontation, be it sanctions/isolation or be it violence.

You mean like Hitler undertook against the Jews in WWII?

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: eits

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: eits
you know what i don't get? most of the people in pakistan back hardcore islamic rule and are fans of bin laden. they even teach about bin laden as a great guy and hero in many of the madrases over there. but we go after frigging iran?

Why does Islam have this problem?

why does islam have what problem?

Hardcore Islamic Rule leading to religious violence and death to women and womens rights et al. and death to the infidels etc etc

uneducated people being brainwashed by uneducated people with power, basically. well, it's more than that, really... it started as a bastardization of islam way back when and certain places not being educated or wealthy enough to evolve their understanding of islam. it's kinda like the middle ages and christianity, except christianity's understanding and doctrines have changed over the years... islam's, for the most part, hasn't.

i think part of it is because the koran is the only unchanged holy book from the time it was first written. if you picked up a koran from today and read it, it would match word for word with a koran written 1200 years ago (i think... i'm pretty sure about that). it's probably that adherence to ancient reference which has kept the evolution from occuring on a much larger scale.

yes, evolution and understanding of islam has changed drastically since 100 years ago, but unfortunately, those uneducated, poor people in the middle east don't really learn any of it... they learn a totally bastardized and messed up interpretation of islam, and because they're poor and they want their kids and family or parents to be taken care of in life, they martyr themselves for a stipend paid to their families. more money for them, one less person to spend it on.


now, i'm not muslim and i'm not a historian, so you might want to check me on this, but i think everything i've said is valid with a high level of certainty.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: alchemize

That kind of "nuanced" thinking was exactly what led to WW II. Apparently history didn't teach you anything, because there are some religious/political belief systems that can only be opposed with direct confrontation, be it sanctions/isolation or be it violence.

You mean like Hitler undertook against the Jews in WWII?

Please don't project your macho islamic "we're the victims!" mentality to my statements. Nobody is talking about genocide of muslims. Start recognizing the cancer in your own country/religion/region and then we can reason.

 

[Lemon law]

I somewhat disagree eits. Look at the Christian bible. There lots in it thats self contradictory. Do we really stone adulters, believe in all the myths, and take everything as gospel?
No we have lots of different interpretations and the Muslims are the same way. As basic guiding principles both the Koran and the Bible are equally valid.

More modern Muslim nations can and do evolve democracies very similar to Western ones. Saudi Arabia is somewhat backward with a monarchy and Iran is far more in tune
with western values of womans rights. For that matter women did not have the right to vote here until the start of the 20'th century and we used to be a slave holding nation.
Like all nations, attitudes change with the times.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

I respect that you are open minded to the different perspectives of different people unlike most here on the forums that believe that their way of life is superior over everyone else and believe they have the right to force if; be it by using violence.

Interesting.

So you support the Taliban?

 

[Lemon law]

To alchemisze who says------------Please don't project your macho islamic "we're the victims!" mentality to my statements. Nobody is talking about genocide of muslims. Start recognizing the cancer in your own country/religion/region and then we can reason.

Do you have any idea how arrogant that sounds to anyone who thinks??? The old we will talk about only your problems because we are perfect and without sin.

That always goes over like a lead balloon. Be at least open minded.

 

[chucky2]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

what do you mean by clean up? Genocide? That's the only way you're going to change our opinions that have taken a U-turn since your illegal wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. It's laughable how you think you can force people to change the opinion the have of yourself by violence. You're the one who'se doing the killing and complain when we protest.

What do I mean by clean up? It is night and day clear obvious TGB that you have no idea why the US is over in that area of the world doing what it's doing. None. That you actually suggest "Genocide" is a perfect example of how mind warped your culture is to the Western world.

That you label the wars we are undertaking in Iraq and Afghanistan "illegal", for which the sole primary purpose is to overthrow perverted Leadership - although from your posts, I wonder if you even think the Leadership we overthrew was indeed perverted? - so the people in those countries aren't continued to be as mind Fvcekd as you seem to be, is another testament on why you have such a warped view of the West.

Wake up TGB!!!

The US if it wanted to could wipe out every military force in the ME and Asia - minus China - within 6 months, if we wanted to. If we wanted to, we could drop B-52, B-1, B-2, F15E, and AC-130 loads over your civilian populations until we received capitulation from your countries for every natural resource you possessed. If any country in the rest of the world minus China and/or Russia (and do you really think they'd come to anyones aid???) tried to stop us, if we wanted to, we could flatten them also.

Why don't we?

Because we are not the F'ing monsters you've been brainwashed to believe.

Does the ME have a strategic interest, 95% oil related, for the modern world? Yes.
Do we value stability in that region because of that oil? Yes.
Do we value stability in that region because we have large Jewish ties? Yes.

But also TGB, especially after the blinders were taken off post 9/11:

Do we want the oppressive regimes (I'm not speaking Bush here, I'm speaking fact) gone from influencing your population so we don't get insane wackos flying planes into our cities? Yes.

You don't want the US over there?

Start getting your sh1t together as a population and get rid of these zany Taliban, bin Laden, etc. types or you're going to be seeing lots more of us. And pray in the meantime that OBL&Co. doesn't do something even more drastic than he did last time, else next time, even worse sh1t is going to go down over there.

Simply: Your clock is ticking, and the World isn't waiting...

Chuck

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: The Green Bean

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: Shivetya
Islamabad - More than 100 girls' schools were closed down in north-west Pakistan Monday following the murder of a female teacher by suspected pro-Taliban militants in the tribal areas bordering Afghanistan, media reports said.

The wonderful peaceful religion it is, the Taliban can make anything look bad. Hell they would make selling girl scout cookies look bad... (unless on halloween then they could dress up!)

Granted Pakistan is supposedly an ally but I wonder how long they can allow the Taliban to gain so much power through terror in their northern reaches?

This is where the eyes of NATO's should be turned to, not imaginary threats but this very real threat, the Talibans will take over a nuclear nation if they are not stopped, they even have popular support to do it.

The Talibans are the extreme filth of humanity, they shouldn't have an opportunity to even breath.

Just an example of the darkness the American media leads its citizens to. Have you ever been to Pakistan or have you been watching too much Fox?

I'm not American nor do i have access to American media from Kabul, well apart from what i could find on the internet if i wanted to.

I have experiences with the Taliban and their crimes against humanity, i am in Kabul right now but not for long.

If you're looking for someone who will tell you what the Taliban movement really stands for without holding back, look no further son, i don't mind Muslims any more than i mind Christians or Jews, i do have a deep rooted problem with people who consider underaged children their personal toys.

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
I somewhat disagree eits. Look at the Christian bible. There lots in it thats self contradictory. Do we really stone adulters, believe in all the myths, and take everything as gospel?
No we have lots of different interpretations and the Muslims are the same way. As basic guiding principles both the Koran and the Bible are equally valid.

More modern Muslim nations can and do evolve democracies very similar to Western ones. Saudi Arabia is somewhat backward with a monarchy and Iran is far more in tune
with western values of womans rights. For that matter women did not have the right to vote here until the start of the 20'th century and we used to be a slave holding nation.
Like all nations, attitudes change with the times.

no no, i know that muslims have different interpretations. i'm saying that the poor uneducated people don't really learn any of them, though.

the only way to have a working democracy is if you have some kind of economic or industrial revolution first. ironically enough, the heads of the iranian government are trying to get an industrial/economic revolution going with this whole nuclear power program. it's just going to bite them in the ass 🙂 power to the people.

 

[1prophet]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Palehorse 74's last statement says it all---There is nothing, at all, admirable or decent about the Taliban... nothing!.

Exactly the kinds of black white thinking that can only lead to perpetual war. You have to realize that others feel the same about us. The trick is to keep the black white simple minded thinkers in the safe tiny minority no one listens to. History teaches us that if nothing else.

Or perhaps you want to tell us all the progress we have made in stamping out opium production which had a bumper crop this year in Afghanistan. The marvels of the democracy
the US military has brought?

As long as the economy is good and people have hope for a future those people have little power, it's when things start going bad (whether forceably induced or because of greed in general) those type of people start gaining followers and power because they have a solution to the problem.